About Dr. Steve K. D. Eichel

I received my B.A. from Columbia University, and my M.S. and Ph.D. degrees from the University of Pennsylvania, and have been a licensed psychologist since 1982. After completing a clinical psychology internship at the Devereux Foundation, I worked for six years as a child and family psychologist at the Irving Schwartz Institute for Children & Youth, followed by several years as the director of child and family services for a large urban mental health center in Camden, NJ. I was then appointed consulting forensic psychologist to the Family Court and juvenile justice systems of Camden County (NJ). Returning to Pennsylvania, I served as Clinical Director of the St. Francis Homes for Boys from 1989-1994, and directed the well-regarded Widener University-affiliated clinical psychology internship there. I also worked as a training consultant to the University of Medicine & Dentistry of NJ and as a family therapist for Community Centered Treatment, a multisystemic family therapy program funded by the Montgomery County (PA) family court and juvenile justice system.

I was associated with the Verree Psychology Group (formerly Dubrow-Eichel Psychological Associates) in Philadelphia from 1983 to the end of 2006.

Presently, in addition to my private practice, I am an Adjunct Associate Professor of Psychology at the University of Delaware; previously I was on the part-time faculty at Philadelphia University (5 years) and for 10 years had been on the core faculty of Villanova University's drug & alcohol counseling program. From 2004-06 I was a counselor educator/supervisor and Program Assistant for the CACREP-approved M.S. in Community Counseling program at Wilmington University in Delaware, and I served through 2006 as a Clinical Supervisor and Consulting Psychologist to St. Francis/St. Joseph's Homes for Boys. From 1998-2000, I was President of the Greater Philadelphia Society of Clinical Hypnosis (GPSCH), and was the 2006-07 President of the American Academy of Counseling Psychology, one of the national academies of advanced practitioners (ABPP Diplomates). I have served as a mentor to future candidates for ABPP Board certification. I was the 2009-10 Chair and CEO of the Council of Presidents of Psychology Specialty Academies. I currently serve as President of the Board of the International Cultic Studies Association. I am a member of APA's Society of Psychological Hypnosis, Society for Counseling Psychology and the American Psychology-Law Society (APA Divisions 30, 17 and 41 respectively) and since 2006, I have served on the Executive Council of the Delaware Psychological Association as Chair of the Psychology and Law Committee. I've written articles on child therapy, hypnosis, child custody evaluations, capital (death penalty) mitigation, sex therapy and cults, and have authored four book chapters (with two more on the way); over the years, I have presented well over 150 workshops, papers and panels to local, state, regional, national and international professional associations.

I am very active in the American Academy of Psychotherapists, one of the most unique professional associations I have ever been fortunate enough to encounter.
 

I am licensed in the states of Pennsylvania and Delaware, am listed in the National Register of Health Service Psychologists, and hold the Certificate of Professional Qualification in Psychology (CPQ) and Interjurisdictional Practice Certificate issued by the Association of State & Provincial Psychology Boards. I am nationally certified in addiction, hypnosis, group therapy, EMDR and sex therapy.  In addition to my psychology practice in Newark, Delaware, I am associated with RETIRN (the Re-Entry Therapy, Information & Referral Network) in Newark, Lansdowne and Pontypridd, Wales, U.K.

Steve Martorano

The Behavioral Corner is produced in partnership with Retreat Behavioral Health -- where healing happens.

The Behavioral Corner

Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano. And this is the Behavioral Corner; you're invited to hang with us, as we've discussed the ways we live today, the choices we make, the things we do, and how they affect our health and wellbeing. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner, please hang around a while. 

Steve Martorano

Hi, everybody, welcome to The Behavioral Corner. It's me again, Steve Martorano. I preside over this little, little bit of virtual turf. We are dedicated to talking about well, everything because everything is what ultimately affects our behavioral health. So brought to us by our great partners underwriting this program Retreat Behavioral Health, you'll hear more about them a little bit down the road. So you know, people come by in the corner we meet...we meet great people, we just have great stories to tell. Lots of times, I hope they're enlightening and informative and that'll be the case today. But before we get started, I gotta give you the topic. So you understand what's going on here and you want to chase the kids out of the room. I don't know. Do kids watch podcasts? I don't know. Anyway, we're talking SEX! Got your attention now, don't I? Okay. And you know, we're not going to talk to the guys on the Corner about sex. We're gonna go to an expert, a gentleman who is, among much other expertise a certified sex therapist. Dr. Steve Eichel is our pal. He's been on the program before. He's a great resource. He is a licensed psychologist. And again, he ranges far and wide over a lot of therapeutic fields. The last time, Steve was with us we were talking about cults, which was a great show. Steve, I shall, thanks for joining us. Let's talk a little sex, shall we? 

Dr. Steve Eichel

My pleasure. 

Steve Martorano

So...So you know, I see your bio, and your bio says that you are a certified sex therapist, which means there must be some problem going on here. If people need therapy for something like sex. And when we think of problem sex, we automatically use the phrase "sex addiction" -- they're addicted to sex, wondering whether that's not a misnomer, because as I understand it, sexual addiction does not appear in the diagnostic manual. But it's not considered a disorder. And it's rarely will you tell me that rarely diagnosed as a problem. If that's true, what are we talking about? 

Dr. Steve Eichel

Well, I'm gonna take a slight issue with what you said, I think it's diagnosed a lot. However, it's not a formal diagnosis. So...so you're referring to the fact that it does not appear in the DSM, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual that's published by the American Psychiatric Association. It's now in its fifth, actually, there's a DSM Five TR. So it's actually in depending on how you want to count it, it's either in the sixth or the seventh edition. And I bring that up, because the DSM is an evolving document. It is a document of consensus, it is not a scientific fact. Unless I'm forced to use the DSM and my safe forced, that's through either a courtroom procedure when I do forensic psychology or in the rare case where I'm involved with an insurance company -- since I don't take insurance in general. That's when I have to assign the DSM code. Other than that, I don't think about it because the DSM is a static document. And people are not static people are dynamic people move they change. So for example, with bipolar disorder, if you're, let's say if you know, if I'm 70 years old, and I had a manic episode 52 years ago when I was 18, one manic episode, that's it never happened again, I still carry the diagnosis of bipolar disorder, which I think absurd. But anyway, that's DSM.

Steve Martorano

The other...and other great example is that was a relatively short period of time ago, certainly in my lifetime and years, when homosexuality was considered a mental illness.

Dr. Steve Eichel

I was in college when it was declared no longer a mental illness. 

Steve Martorano

This is not the dark ages we're talking about. Yeah, so it's a fluid thing. I just mentioned it because so much flows from that in the way you mentioned, but in the broader society, people go, come on...

Dr. Steve Eichel

All the time.

Steve Martorano

...come on, they're not having a problem, you just like sex. So what are we talking about, characterize the behavior of the people who come to you, if you can, in general, with a problem sexual?

Dr. Steve Eichel

What the sex therapy field tends to refer to is out of control or compulsive sexual behavior. It's like any other behavior. It's like running or eating. If you're so devoted to running that it begins to interfere with your personal life and your work life. Well, then, I guess you could say you have a running addiction. But of course, no one talks like that because running is still has valued. It's A positive behavior in the minds of most people. Sex is far more complicated. You know, I like to point out how we think differently about sex than we do about any other human behavior. And here's the example I'm going to give you. It's a weird one. If you'll follow along with me just for a bit.

Steve Martorano

It...it's weird I'll follow it.

Dr. Steve Eichel

Okay, when a man walks into a men's room, you know, you often will find a sign you'll see a sign there, you know, employees must wash their hands after using the bathroom. Well think about this, okay? Your hands are the dirtiest part of your body. You touch everything with them. Okay? A man's penis typically is behind at least two layers of clothing. It's not touching anything. Okay? I think that rather than washing your hands after you use your touch your penis when you're urinating, you should wash your hands before you touch your penis. Because it's not the penis that's gonna make your hands dirty. It's your hands that are gonna make your penis dirty. But we tell people to wash their hands afterward because a penis is inherently dirty. That's why. It's an unusual example. But it's an example I like to use to show how we often think very irrationally about sex. So again, with sexual quote-unquote, addiction, or sexual compulsivity, I will often remind people of that wonderful scene in I don't like to quote Woody Allen these days very much. But nevertheless, he did you know, that Annie Hall was an Oscar-winning movie. And there's a great scene where it's a split-screen, and Annie Hall and the character played by Woody were both talking to their psychiatrists. And the psychiatrist says, How often do you have sex? And Woody says hardly ever, twice a week. And Annie he says all the time, twice a week. So you can see, you know, it becomes extremely subjective at times, the referrals I get are typically not so much for quote-unquote, sex addiction, but more specifically for a quote, unquote, porn addiction. Yes. And typically, what happens is the most typical example not only in my practice, but in the practices of most people that I, the literature that I read, and the people that I talk to, the typical scenario is a wife calls up saying, I was looking at my husband's computer, and he forgot to close a window, Oh, my God, look at the windows to Pornhub or ex hamster, one of the other, you know, free porn services. And then I went and looked at his history. And sure enough, tons and tons of times that he's activated the porn service on his computer. Now he's got a porn addiction. All right, up until then, everything was fine. But now he's got a porn addiction. That's the most typical kind of situation that a lot of other therapists run into. Now there's a problem.

Steve Martorano

So it's behavior-driven, it's not so much what's going on here, but how you're acting on it.

Dr. Steve Eichel

That's right, and how you're responding to it.

Steve Martorano

It's how you're responding to it.

Dr. Steve Eichel

Porn is still dirty, kind of like, you know, going into the men's room, right, it's still a dirty thing. And this is a problem if a man is using or woman for that matter if and if someone's using pornography, as a way of avoiding sex with a partner, then it's a problem. For most people, though, the vast majority of people who utilize who use porn, they're using it, in addition, and in some cases, they're using it, in order to get inspired to have sex with a partner. There was a time this doesn't happen very much anymore, mostly because it research doesn't really back it up. There's a point in time when a lot of sex therapists would recommend to a couple that was having reduced sexual activity, they might recommend, you know, you should watch some porn together. The research really hasn't shown that to be very effective at anything. So that's not being recommended. But there was a time when that was being recommended. So it can be used as a way of arousing and inspiring someone to abate sexual behavior.

Steve Martorano

I've heard this. Some of the distinctions are that men can be aroused by images more readily than women can who prefer probably written erotica or something less blatant. So yeah, it's a dicey situation there.

Dr. Steve Eichel

It is, you know, what we know and research is that men do tend to be more easily stimulated visually, but a lot of women are too. The shows like you know, the Chippendales are very, very popular. Actually, when women tend to be turned on by and I tell this to men a lot because men don't know this. Okay. Touch...touch and smell. So one of the first things I recommend to men is, especially men who are having decreased sexual activity with their regular partners. I will tell them, do you shower? Do you brush your teeth? You know you used to when you were four dating. That's what you did routinely right before a date, you would shower and get dressed nicely and brush your teeth and, you know, comb your hair, whatever. And now you don't.

Steve Martorano

Some of the old verities are still true. Cleanliness is not only next to godliness, but it could be next...next to your wife.

Dr. Steve Eichel

Yes, that's right.

Steve Martorano

That's a great tip. That's a great tip. All right. So people come to you, though, that they are having problems. What kind of problems are they suffering from?

Dr. Steve Eichel

I would say the most common problem these days among males. And by the way, this was among the young males. And I do believe it's related to pornography to some degree. The most common problem is...is difficulty getting erect. So erectile issues, not an erectile disorder. Alright, erectile issues, there's a difference. So they're having erectile issues, and especially they're having difficulty having orgasms are having difficulty completing the sex act, and that I do tie, at least to some degree, to overuse of pornography, and overuse of masturbation -- particular kinds of masturbation techniques, that wind up desensitizing a male's penis to stimulation that is less stimulating than your own hand.

Steve Martorano

And you can, that can be reversed by not watching as much porn and not masturbating as often.

Dr. Steve Eichel

Among other things. Yeah, it can be reversed. It takes time. The analogy I use is dentistry. You know, the best thing to do is to go to your dentist every six months for a regular checkup.

Steve Martorano

Not when your tooth hurts?

Dr. Steve Eichel

And certainly not when your tooth is about to fall out. Okay? And a lot of times when people do and with especially, you know, marriage therapy, relationship therapy, and sex therapy is they wait until you know, it's the very last thing that they can possibly do,

Steve Martorano

You see couples by the way, in your in your practice? 

Dr. Steve Eichel

Mostly when it comes to sex therapy. I mostly see couples, I strongly prefer couples.

Steve Martorano

And that's the dynamic there's something wrong with frequency or pleasure or interest?

Dr. Steve Eichel

Yes, I have seen a fair number of couples where the issue is a sexless marriage. Okay, so what do we mean by a sexless marriage? Actually, it's not a marriage where there's no sex. Most research protocols will call it will refer to a sexless marriage as a marriage in which sex occurs. -- and by sex, I'm talking about any form of genital sex. That's another issue I want to get into. Most people when they talk about sex, they're referring to what Dan Savage calls "PIV sex" -- penis in vagina. And that is, of course, not the only form of sex as we all know from Bill Clinton's days. When I use the term "sex" I'm referring to any form of genital contact, others, PIV, or something else. But at any rate, a sexless marriage is defined as...generally defined as a marriage in which there are fewer than five sexual encounters a year or less. So if you're having sex, once every other month, you're bordering you're on the borderline of having a sexless marriage. I get a lot of referrals for that. It's either a sexless marriage, or it's a quote-unquote, porn addiction. Or, and occasionally, I get referrals for couples who are struggling with working out open marriage or polyamory or some other form of consensual non-monogamy.

Steve Martorano

Those are probably more easily understood. They are by me anyway. But the stereotypical image or thought is an insatiable need for sex. Do you see people like that? What's going on there?

Dr. Steve Eichel

Yeah, I certainly have seen people. I used to be on a regular referral list for sexual addiction. I don't think I am anymore because I think that my rejection, if you will, of the Carnes model of sexual addiction has put me on the..

Steve Martorano

 Describe that model.

Dr. Steve Eichel

Well, the whole term sexual addiction originated with a psychologist by the name of Patrick Carnes, who wrote the very first book on sexual addiction, called out of the shadows. And I've trained with him. I trained pretty extensively with him. He's a...he's in many ways he's very, very...he's been a very brilliant individual. But the treatment modality that's used in sexual addiction is based on Alcoholics Anonymous, it's 12 STEP program. And I've seen that abused by a lot of people. And so I get I'm deeply concerned about it. 

Steve Martorano

Well, yeah, I mean, what immediately comes to mind is if that's the model if that's the standard addiction model, and that's the sort of natural approach, which is the 12 steps.

Dr. Steve Eichel

Right.

Steve Martorano

12 steps is predicated on getting to a point of sobriety. What would sobriety be sexual? What would that be? Well, there are four, what we call "S Groups" are other words four different groups that use AA as their model. So the first one was Sexaholics Anonymous - SA. Then I don't remember if it's SAA or SCA, well, anyway, Sexaholics Anonymous was the first one and they were the strictest. So for them, sexual sobriety consists of sex only with your married partner. Now, that was a problem before there was gay marriage. So as you can imagine, there were... It's also a problem and so far, it sounds like that model doesn't take into account that being strictly monogamous with your partner, in order to maintain your sobriety doesn't take into account that perhaps he or she is not interested in, you know, your frequency of sex. I mean, if someone has an insatiable desire for sex, and they're, you know, jumping over their spouse, they're not in any way healthy, are they?

Dr. Steve Eichel

Well, again, you know, what does insatiable need you mean? Inability to please? I mean... Again, that's a whole separate issue. Typically, people are called sex addicts, the problem isn't that they were, they can't get any pleasure. The problem is that they're so involved in the process, that it interferes with other areas of their lives. All right, so what I worked with a guy who spent on average five hours a day on porn sites, that's a lot of time, you know, he would masturbate a lot, but you know, he wasn't having 50 orgasms. That's not humanly possible for a male -- it is possible for a female -- not possible for a male. So it became so ritualized that he would just spend hours and hours and hours perusing porn, to the point where, you know, he wasn't having relationships, he was having difficulty at work. You know, a lot of other areas of his life suffered as a result of that. So that follows a more classic compulsivity or if you want to call it an addiction, I'm also a certified addictions counselor, a master addictions counselor, and I'm kind of old school. I think addiction relates to ingesting chemicals in your body. So alcohol, drugs, things, cigarettes, that to me is an addiction. The rest, I think, is more properly understood its compulsions. So...

Steve Martorano

Or get pleasure. So you're not wedded to this, the addiction model.

Dr. Steve Eichel

No, I'm not.

Steve Martorano

Okay. I wonder how much of all sexual dysfunction and problems might be attributed to the fact that men and women feel very differently about sex. Is that true?

Dr. Steve Eichel

I'm going to reverse that statement and say that I think men and women think very differently about sex because of our cultural backgrounds our society because of Judeo Christian tradition, etc. You know, as we were talking about a little bit about prior to this program, there's what's referred to as a standard narrative, which is, and most people believe in this and most scientists believe in this, and that the standard narrative is that men are inherently more sexual than women, that men are inherently non-monogamous, whereas women are inherently monogamous. Number one, that's not proven. Number two, there's archaeological evidence that prior to us, humans became agriculturally based, settling down and living in areas rather than being nomadic hunter-gatherers. That in fact, women were far more, if you want to call it promiscuous, they had far more sexual partners than they do now. There's an interesting anatomical feature to males that backs that up. Okay. Think about the male penis, think about what it's shaped like and what it looks like. All right. The male penis in humans, as well as in apes, is engineered to scoop out the sperm that was in there before. Think about that for a moment. Think about the male penis and what it looks like the rigid around the phallus. Okay. So in other words, the idea here is that a woman would have multiple male sexual partners, and the alpha male would not be the first one in. The alpha male would be the last one and his penis would scoop out the competing semen that was in there and leave his semen in there, therefore making it more likely that when a woman gets pregnant, it'll be his child rather than some other man's. That anatomical evidence, for the idea that women were far more sexually available and permissive. But once we became agricultural once we became agriculturally based, and we were no longer nomads and things beginning and then you had to worry about the property, you had to worry about, well, who's going to inherit the farm? I want my kid to inherit the farm, not someone else's kid.

Steve Martorano

So the...so the interest in progeny and paternity became...it became paramount that I'm not going to pass the state on to a child. It's not mine. It's interesting. So we're not hardwired to feel differently about sex. 

Dr. Steve Eichel

That's one...one theory is that we are not hardwired to think differently. And of course, as we all know, women are sexually superior to men. Kins...Alfred Kinsey had physical evidence with one woman who's able to have 100 orgasms in an hour. Okay, men, then your average 25-year-old male, if he can have two orgasms, or three, maybe three in an hour, that's pretty unusual.

Steve Martorano

The average young male just wants the opportunity to have one or two. The idea that 100 is possible. It's beyond imagination. So I'm fascinated about the fact that we're among the patients you're seeing they are younger people rather than older people.

Dr. Steve Eichel

That's the big change 25 years ago, or 30 years ago, the stereotypical couple coming in for sex therapy would be the husband dragging his wife and because she's no longer interested in sex, all right. Now it's the opposite. I get mostly women dragging their men in whether their husbands or not because the women are disappointed with the lack of frequency, the lack of attention, or the fact that my 25-year-old 30-year-old male partner is having erectile issues, or can't have an orgasm. I work with a lot of couples and men who are having difficulty climaxing during partnered sex.

Steve Martorano

Under like 40 years of age?

Dr. Steve Eichel

Yep.

Steve Martorano

On...on the other end of that spectrum, as people get older, what do we know about sex drives? Do they diminish with age at the same rate among men and women?

Dr. Steve Eichel

They diminish with a lack of testosterone. They...yes, they do diminish with age, to a degree in the same way that everything else tends to diminish with age. So you know, your physical activity, in general, might diminish. But again, there's tremendous variation among individuals. So for example, a lot of women, the standard narrative is that when a woman reaches menopause, and then is finished with a, quote, unquote, change of life, her drive drops tremendously. And that's true for many, many women, maybe even the majority of women. But there are also a lot of women who experience a resurgence because now I can't get pregnant. So they experience a resurgence of sexual desire. So it's far more common, in my clinical experience far more common for a 65-year-old woman to drag her 65-year-old husband for sex therapy than for a 65-year-old husband to drag his 50-year-old wife into therapy.

Steve Martorano

So today, our guest is Dr. Steve Eicheli show, He is a licensed psychologist and he has done sex therapy as you can tell, and many other practices as well. This is interesting on so many levels,. Or any of them and I'm loathed to use the word dysfunction but any of these problems any of them associated with sex treated with drugs?

Dr. Steve Eichel

Well, of course, the IDI drugs are the big ones. So Viagra...

Steve Martorano

Cialis. Cialis.

Dr. Steve Eichel

Cialis, are all very popular. And by the way, the majority if you look at the prescription rates for Viagra, which is I think the only...the only drug that is now also generic. If you look at the prescription rates, you'll find it's not the older men who are getting prescribed Viagra. It's the younger men. They use it as a performance enhancer.

Steve Martorano

Yeah. Is there something about what a drug like Viagra can do and it's supposed to do that were misinformed about or don't understand?

Dr. Steve Eichel

I think the biggest mistake that people make is thinking that Viagra will increase your arousal it does have nothing to do with arousal. 

Steve Martorano

It increases blood flow I guess.

Dr. Steve Eichel

That's right. It reverses especially as men age. Our circulation patterns change. There's a specific hormone that's related to the circulation of blood in the penis. It is the spongy material in the penis that has to become engorged with blood. That's what gives us erections. And so the Viagra and the other ED-style drugs correct that hormonal problem that occurs as we age.

Steve Martorano

Well, you know if, if people guys can get their heads around that they might be looking for where the real problem may rest. How much of...except for organic disease...how much of the problems associated with sex and your opinion are...

Dr. Steve Eichel

Yes, the vast majority are psychological, I think. I mean, the organic problems are not hard to discern, we have excellent medical diagnostic tools, we can map blood flow, we can and of course, the majority, at least, not so much in my experience, but in the experiences of my colleagues who work a lot with, for example, with war veterans, there's a whole separate field of sex therapy that involves working with people who have, for example, who are maybe paraplegic or even quadriplegic, or have cancer or other or diabetes is a big issue for a lot of people. So there are certainly organic issues that can interfere with sexual functioning. But the majority of people in my clinical experience who come in with sexual issues, it's psychogenic. Typically I will for males, especially typically, if they come in with low sex drive and low, low sexual behaviors. You know, of course, one of the first things I'll ask them to do is to get their testosterone checked, because there's no question that testosterone has a major influence on the experience of sexuality and on sexual arousal.

Steve Martorano

So let's kind of tie things up here with a couple of questions that are really just sort of opinions that yours is a learned one. You mentioned pornography, you take it to believe that it is presenting a problem for some people, a lot of people.

Dr. Steve Eichel

The major problem, in my opinion with pornography, has to do with the fact that we deny its existence, and don't teach about it. What do you think is the average age of males exposed to very explicit internet porn?

Steve Martorano

At what age do I think they get? I think it's probably very young at this point. 

Dr. Steve Eichel

10.

Steve Martorano

Yeah.

Dr. Steve Eichel

10 years old. So that's, that's, to me is a major problem. The problem is...is that, you know, if anything, we're going backward. If you look at states like Florida, you know, we're denying any discussion about sexuality in schools. And you've got 10-year-olds who are who have to know nothing about fluffer...fluffing, they're not they don't understand what's going on. All they do is they see, you know, they see men pounding it women, if it's heterosexual sex, and then women are having multiple orgasms, and they think that's what sex is about. And nobody, you know, because we're denying, we're just saying, Well, we're refusing to deal with pornography, other than vague attempts to try to outlaw or whatever. Of course, that's never going to happen. But you know, nevertheless, we just deny discussing it. We deny educating our children. Children need to be educated about pornography.

Steve Martorano

Well, I read a post that you had recently, in fact, inspired me to call you about this topic. Wherein you said that attitude that you've just described, this will put a lid on it, you can't talk about it is not unlike the way we thought we would treat drugs...

Dr. Steve Eichel

Right. 

Steve Martorano

And kids have an innate suspicion of adults, to begin with. If they say don't you look at this, when they go look at it, the quickest way

Dr. Steve Eichel

to get someone to look at something. Yeah,

Steve Martorano

we're repeating that mistake, I guess you've answered my final question. And that is at the end of the day, a, you believe the entire society and culture has been over-sexualized and be how big a problem is that?

Dr. Steve Eichel

Our society our culture has always been, quote-unquote, over-sexualized, I would say not so much over-sexualized as improperly sexualized. Now functionally sexualized, sex permeates everything. We all know that I mean, it permeates advertising it permeates our, our world period. But what concerns me is the fact that we don't talk scientifically about sex, we don't talk honestly about sex. What's the greatest love story that Western society has Romeo and Juliet? Right? 

Steve Martorano

And they're both dead at the end?

Dr. Steve Eichel

Yeah, well, they're both dead at the end. They had sex. And how old were they? 16 and 14. Yep. Juliet was 14. So you know, and keeping in mind that up until the Industrial Revolution, the life expectancy was about 40. maybe. How can you be a grandparent at age 40? Unless you're starting to have kids really early? And that's exactly what happened when you reach puberty and a little bit beyond puberty 13-14 years old, up until the Industrial Revolution, you were learning to trade and you started a family. The term adolescence didn't even exist in such a thing. You became a kid and then you're an adult. 

Steve Martorano

Yeah, people don't...people don't appreciate that childhood was a small, transitory point in people's lives because they had to get very quickly to be productive so they wouldn't starve to death. And adolescence to your right I've read this for years is a total fiction of recent creation. Steve, this is great stuff. Finally, for sure, finally. It's difficult for people to reach out for any kind of psychological, sometimes even medical help. They like to deny and deny and so it's too bad. Someone listening now who is having problems? What do you tell them? Pick up the phone...what do you tell them to get help? How do you do it?

Dr. Steve Eichel

Go to the AASECT website. AASECT is the American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors, and Therapists. AASECT is the certifying agency in this country for sex education, sexuality counseling, and sex therapy. So you mentioned I'm a set a certified sex therapist, that's through AASECT. There are several websites that will give you scientific accurate information. So AASECT is one of them, which also will give you referrals. The other one is SSTAR, that's the Society for Sex Therapy and Research, then you can also get referrals through there. So AASECT, SSTAR, and then finally, what we refer to as Quad S. All right. There's also Seek Us, that's a governmental agency, but Quad S is S S S S. So you know, don't want to "ssss" so it's Quad S a Society for the Scientific Study of Sexuality. Those are the resources that I send people to. And as far as referrals, go, SSTAR and AASECT are where you should turn to qualified, credentialed sex therapists. 

Steve Martorano

Terrific. I will reach out to you later and you can give me all that and I'll put it up on the site. When your program airs. Dr. Steve Eichel is always a pleasure. 

Dr. Steve Eichel

Thank you. 

Steve Martorano

You're a terrific guest. Appreciate it. Thank you all. Thank you all for your attention. Don't forget you know, hit the subscription button. It doesn't cost anything. We love that. And follow us on Facebook and look for us wherever finer podcasts are being had. See you next time on the Behavioral Corner. Take care.

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Millions of Americans are negatively affected daily by their mental health. Retreat has served the community for over ten years, offering comprehensive mental health programming through our mental health division, Synergy Health Programs. To learn more about Synergy, please reach out today at 855-802-6600.

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