It’s Always Personal In Philadelphia is an in-depth objective perspective through the lens of a mindful, conscious and spiritually aware African American family man. This fast evolving production delivers an exceptionally novel and creative audio experience. It’s Always Personal In Philadelphia is a beautiful, classy, smart, and edgy show that is grounded in history & facts.

Steve Martorano 

The Behavioral Corner is produced in partnership with Retreat Behavioral Health -- where healing happens. 

The Behavioral Corner 

Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano, this is the Behavioral Corner; you're invited to hang with us, as we've discussed the ways we live today, the choices we make, the things we do, and how they affect our health and wellbeing. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner, please hang around a while. 

Steve Martorano 

Welcome again to the Behavioral Corner. It's me hanging out -- Steve Martorano -- where we discuss everything. Because everything affects our purview, which is behavioral health, it's all made possible by our great, great partners, Retreat Behavioral Health. You'll hear about them a little bit more down the road. We have something we've done a couple of years now in a row, where July is designated as Minority Mental Health Month. And that's...that's a terrific idea. I mean, even in spite of the fact that there's a month for everything, you know, there's a month for lawn mowers. There's national lawn mower month -- it's crazy. But every now and then, there's one that really matters. And so we've been focusing on them nearly here on the Corner. And we, so we thought, you know, we wanted to do it again this July and, you know, how do you do that best, you go into the community, and you find somebody that you think, certainly sharp and interested in the same thing. And that's who we have for you today. Paul Brown, a young fellow I met here in my neighborhood of Philadelphia, and Paul is can best be described as a searcher of truth and knowledge. That's what he...his advocation is that. What he does for a living puts him in a unique position to search out some of these issues. He cuts here, and he owns a barber shop; he's a barber. And if you know anything about a lot of minority communities, a barber shop is a real focal point. It's kind of like ground zero, where folks get together and talk about all kinds of stuff. So we got lucky and met Paul and dragged him here on the Behavioral Corner. Paul Brown, thanks for joining us. How are you?

Paul Brown 

I am doing great, Steve. And it is a pleasure to be here with the Godfather of Radio.

Steve Martorano 

As you can tell, I've done my work with Paul. He's he thinks I invented this. I'm eternally grateful, and I'm gonna do nothing to dissuade him of that. Anyway. so...so Paul, you know, Paul's podcasts, and incidentally, it buried the lede here, as we say in the newspaper business, in addition to his job as the owner of a barbershop, he is a brand new...relatively brand new podcaster. And Lord knows we can't have too many new podcasters. Paul, so welcome...welcome to the family. His podcast is called--and I love this title--It's Always Personal in Philadelphia, which obviously is a play on titles. And I'm going to have Paul tell you about that. But you know, I noticed that there is an intersection between what Paul wants to do on this podcast and what we talk about in general, which are the things that affect us emotionally, psychologically, and even physically, behavioral health issues. So Paul, tell us first about how the podcast came into being.

Paul Brown 

The podcast came around by me, actually, like just educating myself, I was reading a lot. And while having these awesome conversations in the barbershop I used to have, I noticed that a lot of people had a lot of opinions on the black community without any really historic facts behind it. And just in the conversation, instead of me trying to debate with someone, I sent me about a way where I could pretty much educate them without being interrupted, and I thought a podcast might be a good way for them to carry on a conversation without people realizing...and teach them wealth and realizing they're being educated. It does lead to deeper conversations. 

Steve Martorano 

It's a great insight because most people think that a conversation is only confined to a couple of people who have well-held opinions, almost doesn't make any difference what the opinion is, or whether it's based on anything that sort of makes up the majority of most conversations. But it's interesting to go, "Well. I mean, they're entitled to their opinion. Let's see if we give them some, some facts." Or maybe their opinion...maybe their opinions get stronger, or maybe they change. So it's a great idea. And as I said, you can do it in that context of the barber shop which....which...which I just think is...is a killer way of tying the podcast together. So yeah, so you also told me earlier before we got on the interview that you're careful about whose hair you...who...who sitting in your chair, right?

Paul Brown 

Yes, yes. I learned to cut hair in Toronto. I was born and raised in Philadelphia. But I lived in Toronto for about four years and then came back to Philadelphia, and it was just a culture shock all over again. And I noticed that you know, Philadelphia is an awesome place, even though the media lens only shows Philadelphia in a negative light. You...you want to have to realize that Philadelphia is an amazing place. At the same time, you have to do everything you possibly can to protect your energy. So I typically only give my business card out to people who will I can actually have a conversation with, I mean, a true conversation. And that has been incredible for me, especially how it manifested itself into the podcast because this shows that I literally only keep myself around people who can help nourish my soul and elevate me in every way possible.

Steve Martorano 

It's a great trade-off, they get style, and you can get schooled, and so can...it's great...I love it. But you know, that when we first met three, almost three years ago now before the pandemic, and you told me that, you know, you have a barber shop, and you want to do a podcast, I went, "That's exactly where to do a podcast from the barbershop." Before we get into some of the mental health issues that I know you want to touch upon. With regard to the podcast, how many episodes do you have under your belt now? 

Paul Brown 

77. 

Steve Martorano 

Nice. In what a year, two years.

Paul Brown 

I've been doing it now...I look back; it's actually three years I...when I first started, I think I did a commercial for the platform. I'm on which is Spotify. We're in for a year and a half, I would say I taught myself how to direct, edit, sound engineer, and produce my episodes. That's been about a year and a half.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, well, I've heard them, and they are, you know, you it's a steeply learning curve for anyone. And you certainly picked it up. It's...it's there's nothing homemade about this thing. The way it sounds like, you know, NPR is producing your podcast. It's a very, very well done job. Everybody should...should listen--to, by the way, we will have a link to your site as well on ours so we can do a little cross promotion for you. It's a well-done show, and Paul's dedicated to this idea that it's not just a bunch of people spouting off. It's a...it's a bunch of people trying to...I guess raise the bar on any...whatever topic they're talking about, which is the best school possible. So you were telling me, you do you record it, you record some of it right in the shop while you're working? Or is that been difficult because of the clippers and the scissors and all that?

Paul Brown 

Yes. So I tried to record while cutting hair, and while all these conversations are awesome...my wife is incredible. Like, that's the one thing about us. Like, she never holds back the truth. Right? 

Steve Martorano 

Right. 

Paul Brown 

Or she was like...I like...I like it. But the clicker salad is just it's annoying. Right? And as far as I've gotten as far as like, sound engineering. I've never been able I can...I can lower the clippers, but it's still there. And it's just...

Steve Martorano 

I want you to try to overcome that. I don't know that it can because I, believe me, I'm not the technical whiz. I have a great guy who works with me on all this stuff. But we've together, we got to get it figured out so that you can do these things while you're cutting hair. I want to see that in action because I know it will be fantastic. Let's talk a little bit about the kind of, you know, like I said you for those of you who are listening, you know in other parts of the world, and I hope you are Paul and I met because we're, you know, generally the same area of Philadelphia. Paul's shop and his podcast are done in the Germantown section of Philadelphia...that's Germantown down that end, right. It's not Mount Airy, it's Germantown?

Paul Brown 

Mount Airy. 

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, well, it's worth pointing out that Mount Airy and Germantown are one of the most culturally diverse places on earth. When Paul talks about the story of Philadelphia is never really told. They almost never mentioned the Mount Airy section, which is a renowned neighborhood. It's big, but it's renowned for decades as being committed to diversity: Religious diversity, cultural, racial diversity, they take it seriously up here, and you see it, you see it all the time. All kinds of people mixed together managed to get along just...just fine. So that's where Paul does his work. His wife as well, you guys, you guys are partners in ability. Your wife's a physician. She's an eye doctor, is that right?

Paul Brown 

Yes, yes, my wife is an eye doctor. She's also Canadian. We just so happen to be in the Underground Railroad section of Philadelphia. And it ended in Canada. Who would have thought that it would have brought that freedom back and Philadelphia?

Steve Martorano 

That trail still runs...that trail is still open, right? Paul, I know that you are not, you know, strictly speaking, doing this podcast devoted entirely to mental health issues, or even behavioral health issues. But I know you're interested in some of these things. So what I want to do, to, you know, to bring awareness to the unique struggles in the minority community, when it comes to mental health issues, just throw a couple of things out there now. And you can react to them from a personal point of view. One of the first things that I think minority communities run into when trying to get mental health help, or treatment, is costs. That's a...that's a big factor, right?

Paul Brown 

Yes. Yes. It's a huge fact. I mean, my personal experience, I remember when I was younger, like, I had to choose between gas bills and a copay. And I will always choose the gas bill over the copay. I would only go if it was something I really couldn't ignore any longer. 

Steve Martorano 

That's about health care across the board, though, in a lot of minority communities and, and even...and even, you know, socially deprived communities. You know, overall. You got to choose between keeping the lights on and maybe getting your tooth pulled; that's a tough choice.

Paul Brown 

Yeah, that's anyone who's going to suffer from poverty, right?

Steve Martorano 

What about the aspect and this and this, again, is cross-cultural but I wonder what, how significant it is in your community, you know, there's a still a lingering sense of shame if you're having mental health issues. You see that in, in, in your, in your community, in your experience, people go, "I can't let people know I'm having trouble."

Paul Brown 

I would say, more or less, to suggest to someone because you see a therapist is to suggest that they are crazy. So you got to attach to that with it. But from the people, I've encountered, like I meditate, right? I meditated before, and the idea of minutes of talking to someone in my community about meditation or mental health is just terrifying in the sense that you will have to really hold yourself accountable mentally and also people around you who are in your circle accountable. So it's terrifying if you think about it. And also the idea that people in our community also suffer from like systematic poverty, so they are taught to always be strong to get over whatever traumas they face on a daily basis, to the idea of going somewhere you can't physically see pain or you can't physically see how it's hindering your life -- that's just is so abstract for a lot of people in my community.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah. Is it also not considered, either consciously or unconsciously, as a kind of luxury? I mean, life is tough. Just because I'm depressed or traumatized. You know, I still got it...I still gotta go to work. I got to do my thing. It seems one of the hindrances in the community might be just from that, like, man up, right?

Paul Brown 

Yeah. Yes, that's, that's the main thing to man up. And I think a lot of it. That's why but fortunately, slave syndrome was so important to me because we've been taught for such a long time to be, from our inception to be human flesh robots, we think about what a slave could be something that you don't, it doesn't have like you were taught yourself human, you have little feelings. So can you only imagine how that would manifest itself with no help in 2022.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, that I know that...that is a...that is a topic that has come up, you do a podcast about this. I will be embarrassed to admit that the term post-traumatic slave syndrome was brand new to me. So tell me how you found that, first of all, what it is and how you found out about it.

Paul Brown 

Okay, so one of my favorite hip-hop artists, Nasir Jones NAS, dropped an album an untitled album when Obama was running, and it was a skit where they had an audio actor talking to a shrink, and the shrink was saying, you want to talk this out maybe it's post-traumatic stress, maybe post traumatic slave syndrome. And then during In Trump's administration and was a 20---2017. I was editing. I was just teaching myself how...how to use sound bites and edit an episode I recorded with my friend Dr. Maria Parr Han. And I searched post-traumatic slave syndrome on YouTube, and all of a sudden linked with a lecture from Dr. Joy DeGruy that was like, Jesus Christ, use that soundbite. And then, later on, she led me to her book, which I read. And it was just that lead, like reading the book. I was like, wow, I have. I've always known I've had that too. 

Steve Martorano 

What's the name of the book? 

Paul Brown 

Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome.

Steve Martorano 

Okay, that it's fair, it's fascinating to think about that. So give me the...give me the broad strokes. Well, how does it manifest itself? What...how does it affect someone like you>

Paul Brown 

I never feeling...you never feel safe. I've always had sleep problems that always...Thomas Jefferson said that black people smell bad and require less sleep. And that's seemed like a generational curse forever. So never really being able to sleep well. And when you do wake up, you feel like you're...you're, you're like a little bit more alarmed than usual. Now, like, you can manifest stuff like a hybrid, like aggression, and sometimes talking to people, in that written that being conscious of my thoughts in this being angry, for no reason. Are you getting angrier than that? You can analyze my thoughts and not being present at all.

Steve Martorano 

Do you know whether...whether how widespread the treatment for this is, are there African Americans that are looking for mental health treatment for something like post-traumatic slave syndrome? 

Paul Brown 

Well, the way...the way _________ explained it to me was that post-traumatic slave syndrome was a state of being and that people could come out of it. It's this was a syndrome. And I didn't know that, like, from the I didn't know that the past, but she was explaining how you...you can, it's something that it's not a disease that...that you can't come out of it. You can come out of it. So, for me, reading, by the way, these are...these are Social Sciences for talking about the heat across as well as doctors are in a group. And reading her book, for me, was definitely a point of healing. But also seeing therapy after that. You know, but to your question earlier about going to practitioners, me going to a practitioner who wouldn't even understand what post-traumatic slave syndrome is, what would it wouldn't be a good fit. And therapists are similar to barbers, there are good barbers, and there are bad barbers based on, right, based off of your how you want to look and based on your personality right, so it can be difficult to find a therapist that can help.

Steve Martorano 

One of the other things that you will see if you look, if you look around enough about barriers to mental health treatment...in minority communities is that minorities are no different than anybody else. They feel more comfortable with people like them. You look like me, you maybe have the same kind of background I have, even if you're better educated, but at least you look like me. I have heard it said once, and I...you feel that too much of the healthcare system is...is the foundation of it is white. These people are basically trained to see things in a white context, and that can be a barrier to getting help into a minority community. Is that what you mean by reluctance...you gotta get to the right therapist before you're ever going to be able to discuss these issues?

Paul Brown 

A part of that can be that. I can only...so I remember my wife, right? I remember. We have these in-depth conversations. And to me, reading these books. My wife is mentioning how she...she used to view like, and she would cuddle sometimes like a white child in her chair. When putting eyedrops in with a black child. She would say, "Suck it up." Right, and then realizing that through our conversation. I just became aware that I was doing that. Right? And it changed. It changed how she approached things. So, did he have to be white? Not necessarily, but, but I think a lot of times, white people are on autopilot. So part of what white people have to suffer from, according to post-traumatic slave syndrome, is the fact that when blacks were lynched during the Reconstruction period, whites were coming from townships to view this put their children, so white people have the conditions, to be on autopilot, to not really to have more empathy for a deer or a dog than they would a black person that will manifest itself and how and how a health care provider may see. Or the fact that, like, we've been taught to hate ourselves. Black people have been taught to hate ourselves. So that's always gonna be there as well, more or less. I've always seek people who respect my humanity more than anything else, regardless of race because you're gonna be a black person who still has that.

Steve Martorano 

How do you respond to the criticism, and you hear it a lot now? "Oh, come on, man, slavery...slavery was over 200 years ago, now." If you're still suffering from some kind of residual effects, even though you were never a slave, or, you know, most of your ancestors weren't? Get over it. I mean, how do you respond to that? That get over it. Get over it.

Paul Brown 

Well, at that point, I would basically I would tell them to read a few books that, like Color of Law, was a great book by Richard Rothstein. He breaks down like covenants that actually led to systematic poverty and control. And that's more recent, or I would tell them to like, go into dive into a little bit more history books. And the reason why we haven't in our history, we had a civil war that we glossed right over reconstruction because Andrew Johnson got an office, and he basically gave the Confederates the land that was supposed to be given the Special Order 15, to slaves to keep them empowered. And that we just break down all of the elements that are there, beyond just the slavery and a stain that was never addressed. But the things that were done to actually keep people in color, poor, and the poor come certain traumas like, you know if you could read.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, yeah, you made a point of women in our pre-interview talk that trauma, which is a problem that knows no color or economic class -- trauma is trauma. There are differences in the African American or minority communities when it comes to trauma. Talk a little bit about that. I mean, people associate trauma with a specific event, a violent event or physical abuse, or something. There's a larger context in the minority communities when it comes to trauma. Am I right?

Paul Brown 

Yeah, there's a great book is called The Framework for Understanding Poverty by Ruby K. Payne. And she was breaking down just what poverty does to you. But there's two forms of poverty there's...there's financial poverty, and it's also mental poverty. Right? So if the vast majority of people in the black community -- brown community -- have been taught for generations to hate themselves, right, they did that to get over it. You have to seek your own, I guess our own history, even in school, that will lead to violent mental power. Right? And then if you think about the financial poverty as well, she was breaking that how that is true poverty. And then, when you suffer from true poverty, it makes it difficult to even see past tomorrow. It's a handicap. So it's interesting seeing...yeah, reading that like stuff ...that book helped me understand what was taking place in my community.

Steve Martorano 

It's easy to see that if you seek this stuff out, as you are dedicated to doing with your podcast, now, you seek this information out. I think what you'll get is a better understanding of what's going on. And you won't fall into that camp of over; they're always complaining, or they got to get over it because you're not schooled in understanding how traumatic and long-lasting these things are. And we're right, smack dab in the middle of that argument. I mean, there are, you know, you...you'll have an easy time finding people who have an opinion about critical race theory, and none of them know it...none of them know what it's...what it's about. Not...not a one of them knows what it's about. I don't you know, I barely understand, but I mean, it's a search for context, really, just look at the look at the context of this thing. So it's certainly easy easier to understand when you search after this stuff, which I again, I go back to you. It's Always Personal in Philadelphia. Your podcast does a great job of taking some of these things apart like that. It's great. Tell us a little bit...I know you've done a couple of things about raising your children in a mindful way. Tell me what that means to you.

Paul Brown 

Well, that makes me is...I was, you know, in a previous conversation, I told you I was 40 years old. You were saying he was much younger than that. Right? All right. I've always...my dad left me when I was a kid. So I guess most of the children in my generation are 80s babies. They all have pretty much all right, excellent parents. For some reason, almost. It's rare to have a two-parent household. But how that manifests in my life is I remember I was...during the quarantine, I always hid the fact that I smoke cigarettes, I was smoking like a pack a day at this point in time. And I went on the porch smoke cigarette came into the house, and my daughters they were like, "Dad, you smoke cigarettes? And I was like, and you couldn't hide the smell? And I was like, I don't lie to my kids. Right? 

Steve Martorano 

Right. 

Paul Brown 

I was like, I really wanted to. I was like, "Yes." And then when i Dad, you're killing your lungs, we need you. It was almost like listening to DeSean Jackson, talking to Michael Vick, "We need to stop running. The way you're running...we need you to last for the whole season." Right? It was just like that, at that point in time, just being mindful, understanding my children, I've had to do this all for them. They literally saved my life in the sense that I've been reading, like miles a day, and working out the best of my past by foster care. I don't smoke cigarettes, you know. It just recognizes them at every...every point in life and documenting this experience with them as being mindful.

Steve Martorano 

How old are the kids? How old are the kids, Paul?

Paul Brown 

10 and 9.

Steve Martorano 

Have you got them sweeping up in the shop yet?

Paul Brown 

Yeah, they did that from the beginning. From the very beginning. The kids are they just, they this is amazing...it's amazing to be able to be mindful enough to learn from your channel, and to have conversations with them to like, listen to them, you know, to recognize their own...their own person. Right. Like, we...I think a lot of times, parents get caught up in trying to program that child to be just like you and that recognizing that you are raising a whole different human being. Those things you need to be, you know, mindful with the kids of all times. 

Steve Martorano 

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's a great definition of mindfulness. Just keep your mind open. I want to...I want to sort of sum it up here with one other obstacle, or difficulty or uniqueness about mental health in the...in the minority community. And that is the issue of trust. From your perspective, this historic distrust of the medical establishment in the African American community is it still there? Is it...is it still a factor?

Paul Brown 

Definitely, it's still there. I mean, you saw it play out...a lot of people saw it play out when an mRNA vaccines came out. Right? There were a lot of people who didn't...they didn't even know like, I had to do an episode about that. It's called mRNA Vaccines for Dummies on my podcast. And it was, you know, that's the book series for dummies. 

Steve Martorano 

Yep. 

Paul Brown 

So I did that for a number of reasons to show one people were...they were insulted...they were like they were insulted, to begin with, like, wow, you are the reader. It's the whole book series about that for Dummies explains to you what this is, and helping people understand what polio is like the vaccine for polio, and how it helped save so many lives. But there is a huge distrust in the medical community by the black community. I mean, there's a huge distrust in the black community for the medical community. But it makes sense. I mean, for like, you mentioned before, these experiments and gynecology was came about by...by practitioners literally practicing on live slave women. So it makes sense, it would be distressful.

Steve Martorano 

And most blacks know about Tuskegee and the horrible experiments that went on back then. And the other amazing historical fact that contributes to distrust is the Henrietta Lacks stem cell research that that family had no idea of unbelievable things that were being accomplished because they because of their deceased relative Henrietta and the use of her stem cells. So anyway, there's an absolute historic basis for this. And so, you know, African Americans have their cautious there, you know, they know the history here.

Paul Brown 

Right. 

Steve Martorano 

And then here comes a pandemic...here comes a miracle. And that's what it is. That's what these vaccines are. They were a miracle that had to be just demystified for everybody. Certainly, white folks had to go. And they still, some of them still don't get it. This is not something they cooked up overnight. They've been working on this technology for years. They just, you know, put the pedal to the metal. And, and so in terms of vaccinations in the community and in the African American community, it lagged a bit. But everything I read now says that it's on par with every other ethnic group. Black folks got vaccinated. And so that's some progress, right? Or is that just a function of the head to go to work? You know, we got to go to work. Let's get vaccinated.

Paul Brown 

I guess that was...that was some...some progress. But it was that was the biggest American issue right now with social media, everybody so tribal, in a sense that there's a there's literally, like an argument. There are either people who are for holistic medicine or for modern medicine, and there's never both of them were useful. Both of them should be used like a unit, you know, and I think that's why the need to educate as many people as you possibly can is so important, because the average person, unfortunately, isn't really anything.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, that this is true. Paul Brown, he is an as I said, podcaster. He's with us to talk a little bit about what goes on in his community. So that we can see, get a little peek in there. The podcast is called It's Always Personal in Philadelphia. In addition to our podcast, you should listen to his podcast. It really...he can open...it can open your mind and eyes to stuff maybe you hadn't thought about very much. Paul continued success with the podcast for sure and the barbershop. Any...any...any help we can give you on how to record audio and video while you're cutting here. Let us know. We'd love to have you back from time to time to talk more about stuff that's going on in your world. Fascinating stuff.

Paul Brown 

I appreciate that, Steve. It's an honor to be on the show. It truly is. I think you're remarkable. And also...

Steve Martorano 

Thank you. Yes.

Paul Brown 

I actually was listening to Living for the City all day. Stevie Wonder.

Steve Martorano 

Ahh, Stevie.

Paul Brown 

So people who listened to that song "Living for the City," my podcast is ultimately helping you understand what are the ingredients that contribute to their family who's just living enough for the City. Why are these people always in this poverty-stricken area? It is not because they want it is because their systems their. So this podcast basically breaks that down for you.

Steve Martorano 

It's a great point of entry. To learn about that stuff. It's Always Personal in Philadelphia,. The creator and host of that. Paul Brown, our guest. I'm going to have you back as often as you'll come, man. This has been great. I'll see you at the cigar shop, right?

Paul Brown 

Yes, sir. Steve, you're remarkable, man. You're amazing!

Steve Martorano 

Thank...thank you. Hey, everybody, thank you all for listening to the podcast. Don't forget we you know we're available wherever fine podcasts are had. If you're like us, give us that little like deal. And follow us on Instagram and...and Facebook and all that other stuff. Till next time on the Corner, take care.

Retreat Behavioral Health 

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