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Ep. 126 Christine Brunson & Pat Albright Podcast Transcript

Steve Martorano 
The Behavioral Corner is produced in partnership with Retreat Behavioral Health -- where healing happens

The Behavioral Corner 
Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano, and this is the Behavioral Corner; you're invited to hang with us as we've discussed the ways we live today, the choices we make, the things we do, and how they affect our health and wellbeing. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner. Please hang around a while.

Steve Martorano 
Hi, everybody. Welcome again, to the Behavioral Corner. It's me, Steve Martorano,, hanging on the Corner. You know how it works. We picked a great spot in...in virtual land, the Behavioral Corner because so many people cross our paths as we hang out. We talk about behavioral health, which is a broad, vast topic. That's why I like to think of this podcast as a podcast about everything because that's what affects our behavioral health. It's all made possible by our underwriting partners Retreat Behavioral Health, you'll hear more about them a little bit later. So we are devoting this program to taking a look at domestic violence. October being designated annually as Domestic Violence Awareness Month. It's a shame we have designated a month of this, but better than nothing. And we have with us two people who are, I mean, I would do it an injustice to say that they're advocates for women in across the board. I don't have enough time to say about the work that they do across the board. But certainly, they have and are joining us because they have a particular interest in the topic of domestic violence. Christine Brunson is with us. Christine is a catalyst for changing societal norms and encouraging people to follow their dreams. Her mission is to empower people, particularly women. She is a case management coordinator at a societal service agency in Philadelphia, and she is the founder of Purple House Project PA. Christine, thanks for joining us. Also on board is Pat Albright. Pat describes herself as a low-income single mom, and she has a disability. She works with a couple of different groups that we're going to find out about. But essentially she works through an organization in Philadelphia, called Crossroads Women's Center. Let's begin with you, Pat, tell us about the Crossroads.

Pat Albright 
Well, The Crossroads Women’s Center is a multiracial, community-based center where women come together across divisions and for collective self-help support and advocacy against poverty, sexism, racism, disability, and other discrimination. And for financial recognition for unpaid caregiving, that's overwhelmingly done by women, and all these issues related to domestic violence. We deal with a lot of different issues, but they're all interconnected.

Steve Martorano 
I want to...I want to really...get very specifically into that because that is a key point of discussion, I believe that domestic violence, and that is unlike, and I hate to use the term because sin minimizes "garden variety violence," which you know, we live in a violent society and in a world. Quite apart from that phenomenon. Domestic violence, as Pat just described, it is impacted across an entire spectrum of things that overwhelmingly affect women. She just mentioned a few of those. Crossroads, I can just tell you this, and we'll leave the Crossroads website up...a link to it so you can see it. It is as rich a resource, as you will find -- information and services for these issues that affect women who can leave it at that. In addition, Pat has two organizations that we will deal with later, the Global Woman's Strike and Give Us Back Our Children. That's going to be a key point a little bit later on. Christine, as I said, works with a social services agency in Philadelphia, but she's the founder of Purple House Project PA. Christine, what is Purple House?

Christine Brunson 
Thank you so much for having me. Purple House Project is a community-based nonprofit organization, with the mission to strengthen, empower and transition women impacted by intimate partner violence, through connection to essential resources that aid in the healing process. I often tell people that we are the step after the shelter. So if someone is in imminent danger, we will refer them to an emergency shelter or organization. However, we work with women who are transitioning who needs to help connect to resources or we need to fill in empowered.

Steve Martorano 
You know, it's interesting, you mentioned being part of a process because too often I think we look at a situation like domestic violence and think it gets handled in only one way. And, you know, you're done with it. "Oh, you call the police. And that's the end of the incident." But getting out from under situations like domestic violence is an ongoing process...it's a process. It's not a thing. I'm curious about the name, Christine, why Purple House?

Christine Brunson 
So Purple is the color for domestic violence. "House" because we want all of the resources to be under one umbrella term, like one umbrella organization, because we feel like when people have to go here to access food resources in here to access mental health resources, and another place to access another resource, things get lost in the sauce. So our thought is to like, be able to offer and connect people all under one roof. And then "Project" because it is a project is so many moving parts. And, you know, everybody's story looks a lot different.

Steve Martorano 
I wasn't aware about the color designation. I sort of get the job of asking the really dumb and obvious questions, but that's what I do. So I will, let me begin with you, Pat. When we add the descriptor "domestic violence," what are we exactly talking about? There is a definition for domestic violence. What is Pat?

Pat Albright 
Well, oftentimes when you have a partner or husband, or domestic partner or husband who has...they often end up being abusive. And we think the key to that, it's a fact ...is the fact that we're so often financially dependent on men in our relationships. So that's a lot of what our focus is. It's a situation where, especially that, you know, that we think poverty is the biggest barrier to women being able to leave. So if you're in a domestic partnership, and you're being abused, you have to be able to have some kind of money and resources of your own to get out. We need financial independence in order to navigate these kinds of situations.

Steve Martorano 
I think most people would be very surprised to find out how, in the grand scheme of things relatively recent it is that women could have their own bank accounts, or were independent financial actors, no matter what their marital, or domestic status was. This is a relatively new phenomenon. You know, when you add to that other socio-economic difficulties, you have a real burden to getting out from under these situations. Christine, what is the distinction between intimate partner and domestic violence?

Christine Brunson 
Yeah, so domestic violence really does, like in the house. And so like, Pat was mentioning, you know, partners that are in the house, where it's intimate partner violence deals with the abuse that people can experience from a partner that doesn't live in the house. So say, for instance, you have a long-term boyfriend or girlfriend, and their violence was you that was categorized as intimate partner violence, not necessarily that they live in the home with you, but so anyone you're intimate with, and intimate partner violence is all about power and control. So oftentimes, people talk about toxic relationships. Those are bad too, very, very bad. But intimate partner violence and domestic violence deal with like the unequal distribution of power and control, when one person has more control over the other one. And as you mentioned before, like with the bank accounts, and access to resources, that's when it becomes intimate partner violence.

Steve Martorano 
This is an overwhelming female problem. You don't view it exclusively as that, do you? There are...

Christine Brunson 
Yeah, there are definitely...we are seeing growing more and more growing numbers of men, and people identify as men expanding. And so partner violence. I think the stats now it's that one in seven men experienced intimate partner violence. And so the resources are definitely starting to shift. And people are starting to like realize that this isn't just a, you know, a burden that impacts women but also impacts men. And it's not just a burden that impacts heterosexual couples, but also members of the LGBTQ community as well.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. And it's an equal opportunity plague, that's for sure. Can I ask you two to kind of give us a thumbnail sketch of when someone in a situation like this domestic violence confronts barriers to escape or change? Can you prioritize a couple of those? You begin with the economics, I certainly can see that. But what is a couple of other barriers that women confront when they're trying to get out of this situation? Pat, do you want to start? Give us a couple.

Pat Albright 
Well, I mean, one of the things that we have dealt with it relates to the Give Us Back Our Children group that you mentioned, that I work with, which is the first form to address the fact that so many mothers are losing their children's custody through their children to the child welfare system, and that one of the reasons that children are taken unjustly, most of it is unjust, and it's due to racism, sexism, other discriminations. If you have a disability, it from being poor or if you're in a domestic violence situation. And so it makes women very reluctant and afraid to try to do something about the domestic violence situation and report it anywhere, for fear that their children can be taken away from being blamed for allowing the children to see this or whatever. And very frequently on, which is devastating, children are taken and put in foster care, or they're...they're given custody you've given to the abusive father. 

Steve Martorano 
Is that right? 

Pat Albright 
Yeah. 

Steve Martorano 
I wasn't aware of that. I mean, I understand that...I think I understand the economic hardships women would face and trying to get away from a violent or abusive situation. I didn't know that they risk losing their children. That would certainly be a barrier. Christine, what other factors come into play?

Christine Brunson 
I would say another factor that comes into play is access to resources and affordable housing. Access to mental health resources. Access to food resources. If you think about it a lot of times, right along with economic abuse, a lot of times people earn relationships. And when they decide to leave and get the strength to leave, a lot of their livelihood is connected to their partner, whether it be access to health insurance, access to food, or access to housing. And so oftentimes, when people decide to leave, they have to start from scratch. And the shelters are over-inundated in Philadelphia. More often than not, there are so many people who get turned away. Because in Philadelphia, there's only one domestic violence shelter. And it has 200 beds. And then in Delaware County, there's only one with under 20 beds. And so it's difficult. I would say children are also another barrier. Because if you think about like school, I'm dealing with that now with one of the clients we face like that we work with. They live in Delaware County, however, the only opening and shelter were in Philadelphia. And so now they run the risk of having to transport their child from Delaware County to Philadelphia each day so that their child could stay in the school. And then transportation is often a barrier as well.

Steve Martorano 
That's, I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but it's shocking. Delaware County and Philadelphia, between the two shelters. We know the problems are much larger than that. You know, in the substance abuse world, sober living houses have grown exponentially over the past 20 years. And they're also part of that transition from treatment, then early sobriety, and then a place to live in a safe, sober environment as you make your way back into mainstream life. Is Purple House is not, strictly speaking, housing for people? It's just a service that helps them get to that point. Is that right?

Christine Brunson 
Yeah, it's definitely not just housing for people. We actually don't have any housing right now, what we are a linkage to resources. And we say "house" figuratively, like under...this idea that all of the resources are housed under one roof.

Steve Martorano 
You know, just thinking about the need for something like that. It would be wonderful if somebody could put together a string of actual homes.

Christine Brunson 
The goal is transitional housing. And...

Steve Martorano 
Even in a temporary status. You've got a critical situation when someone's in danger, threatened, and abused. The first, you know, the first rule is to get them out of that situation as quickly as you can. And then, of course, these other barriers we were talking about. To what extent are drugs and mental health issues that make this even more problematic? How big a role does mental illness play in domestic violence?

Pat Albright 
That's hard for me to answer because I think it's so tied into the system that we're all trying to deal with and how that sort of the, I mean if you're talking about the mental illness of the person who's doing the violence. I mean, when you think about the fact that our lives and our contributions are not seen and valued as mothers and caregivers. And that if you're on welfare, for example, they call you a "welfare queen" and that you are forced to do work requirements of raising a child with nothing. There's that whole mentality, I think that contributes to whatever quote-unquote "mental health" is going on. That this is a societal thing, that I think, is at the root of it, that some lives are valued, and some are not. And that goes...yeah...

Steve Martorano 
You've returned to that more than once. And it is interesting, and I sometimes wonder if it's not overlooked. The problems of domestic problems overcoming domestic violence are systemic. And they deal with, as you said, very directly, how society views women's roles. They are the victims of this, but that notion of them as kind of a helpless victim, I don't think, would be very helpful, in one sense. Do you agree with that?

Pat Albright 
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, one of the things that we've been interested in and have gone to a conference on is like the guaranteed income movement. When people have are provided cash, with no strings attached, people do very well and deal with all kinds of situations. I mean, I don't know when to deal with domestic violence, per se, there. There's a program that's getting off the ground in DC for women in danger of having their children taken by child welfare. I mean, the point is that we're doing work as mothers, and we're not considered workers under many circumstances. And when we don't need to be lifted up by our bootstraps. We don't need a hand-up or a handout, and whenever they tried to say, but we need to be...have our work recognized and supported. And this is work we're doing that we're entitled to money for. And so that's the kind of thing we're trying to shift that narrative. So it's not like, we hope...helpless victims, but we're workers who are doing a critical role for a society that are being ignored and not supported. And so that's kind of where we start. And we want to basically reshape society towards what it shouldn't be about, which is the care of people on the planet. And we call it a care income.

Steve Martorano 
"Victim" conjures up a certain image in people's minds of helplessness and weakness, in a sense, "Oh, the victim." And that's quite distinct from...we know when coal miners organized, right, or steel workers or auto workers, yeah, they were victimized by work, but they were a strong potent force, arguing for their position. And it didn't looked like victims. They looked like people who were saying, "Enough is enough." Christine, let me as you, I don't think I know the answer. What has the ongoing, as a matter of fact, pandemic, -- what's been the impact on domestic violence through this pandemic?

Christine Brunson 
We've seen numbers and more than doubled since the pandemic, because especially when the stay-at-home orders were there. If you think about it, there were people who were forced to stay in the house with their partners all day, whereas prior to the pandemic, they had the outlet of going to work to school, but now they were forced. Incomes were reduced because people were out of work, and we know that financially when people are upset, they often take it on their partners as well. We saw access to resources are being impacted as well. You saw like period poverty on the rise or people not being able to afford menstrual products during the pandemic. So the pandemic was very lethal for a lot of people experiencing intimate partner violence, but the rates of people who were murdered like increase significantly during the pandemic.

Steve Martorano 
Our guests are Christine Brunson and Pat Albright. They, as you can tell, are tireless advocates for women in general, but certainly in the area of domestic violence. As I mentioned, October is Domestic Violence Awareness Month. So let me ask you, you know, we get down to the nitty-gritty here now, a situation becomes intolerable and dangerous. What's the first thing you would advise someone in that situation to do? Who do they call? What do they do? Christine?

Christine Brunson 
I think it depends on where the person is in their journey. And so some people, the first person they call is a trusted loved one, to share the "Hey, like, I am sick and tired of being sick and tired. And I need support." For other people, the first person that they call sometimes is the police. However, we know that the police are oversaturated with calls, and our court systems are often oversaturated with protection from abuse and order law as well. And so, you know, we often talk to people about where they are in their journey. It's important to note that statistics show that one of the most lethal -- really most lethal times for a person in an intimate partner violence relationship is when they decide to leave. And so it's important for us to educate people on like, what resources are available, as well as create what's called a safety plan as well. Because basically, you're going to be uprooting your whole entire life when you leave this partner. And so it's important to be intentional and strategic. And so, does that answer your question?

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, absolutely does. Again, you know, they go, "Oh, why don't they just leave?" Why don't they just leave is the most grossly oversimplified comment ever. Because you're right, you need a plan. This is not so much. I'm leaving in a huff. This is an escape. This is a...you better know where you're going and what the circumstances are. Pat, and Christine mentioned the police, and we know that that is a tough job, and their spread has thin in most big cities. But at the end of the day, is a police officer, and I understand the need to call that very often, but are they the best people to respond to a situation, you know, first responders? Isn't there a better way to have different people arrive at a scene like that?

Pat Albright 
I should hope so. And Christine would know more about that from her experience. But it's kind of ties into something I wanted to bring out, which is that the example of how they value or does not value women's safety in life is in terms, of rape. Recently I saw a figure that less than 1% of rapes lead to felony convictions. And at least you know, of course, 89% of the victims suffer emotional and physical consequences. But this is an example of how little of our lives are valued in this fight by the system. And with the police -- I think a lot of us would be scared to call the police. But sometimes you don't know what else to do.

Christine Brunson 
I think it should be in conjunction. So like I said in my bio, I work as a case management coordinator. And more often than not, the push is to like when police are called that there is a mental health provider that accompanies the police. And so I strongly believe that there needs to be someone who's trauma-informed and that police officers need to become more and more trauma-informed. But I agree that there needs...for safety reasons, there needs to be a police officer, and for safety reasons, there needs to be a trauma-informed provider there as well to assess the situation and to provide support during the situation.

Steve Martorano 
Absolutely. And I think it also, my perspective from the outside of this, would be it also kind of dulls the police response to the situation. They see it so often, "Oh, these two people are fighting, and he's hitting her." It becomes ordinary for them. There certainly can't be capable of seeing beyond that. I mean, do you know what else needs to be done? I don't know how you guys feel. but if I ever saw a situation where they, as you say, Christie mandated a mental health caseworker or something to go with police on calls like this, it can be very, very valuable. Let me ask you with regard to collateral damage from this. In addition to the, you know, the principals involved in a domestic violence situation, it must be a very, very traumatic situation for children, correct? 

Christine Brunson 
Yes. 

Steve Martorano 
And when, Pat, when you talk about that the group, give us back our children? On the one hand, I think most people go, "Well, look, this is a scary situation. There's physical violence potentially going on. The first thought is to get the children out of harm's way." How is that being done wrong in your mind?

Pat Albright 
Well, it completely ignores the critical bond between mothers and their children. So just to be ripped apart from your mom and put in with strangers it's going to be terribly traumatic, and why not take the time, energy, and money to get the mother and the kids out of that situation? And instead of like ripping the children away from their mom. That's our concern that we need to prioritize the mother and children staying together. And with the support that's needed for them to do that.

Steve Martorano 
Your position is the position to the group is that yeah, there's a dangerous situation. Everybody needs to be put out of harm's way. But tearing children apart from their mothers only exacerbates the trauma. So keeping them together is what's important.

Pat Albright 
Exactly. 

Christine Brunson 
For a lot of survivors, they say that what helped them survive and what's given them strength is their children. And so I agree 100% with Pat is like providing services for both the mom and the children and informing them and educating them. Yeah.

Steve Martorano 
And that whole process, you can see how a domestic violence situation is not handled properly, the way you guys wish it were, and are helping happen. There's a gigantic ripple effect because those kids are going to grow up in not the best, in not the best environment. The likelihood that they're not going to become great citizens, or perhaps domestic violence partners themselves, just grows because of how screwed up we handle it now very often. And let me ask you, just this final question with a laugh, the dynamic of this because I'm learning this as I go along. Do we see generational domestic violence actors? Do you know what I mean? I mean, do children learn it, Christine? You're nodding your head. Do children learn this behavior from their parents?

Christine Brunson 
I don't I wouldn't go as far as saying, children learn from their behavior. When you said generational, I immediately thought of my family and my situation. So my grandmother experienced domestic violence. My mom experienced domestic violence. And so I saw it happening in my family. I wouldn't go as far as to say like, "Hey, because this happened -- this happened." But I think that there are some factors that contribute to domestic violence and intimate partner violence. I think there are a lot of environmental factors that impact I think, a lot of the ways that we raise people in our community and, you know, contribute. I think that, you know, access to mental health impacts. I think that there are a lot of societal impacts and environmental impacts that impact intimate partner violence.

Steve Martorano 
Ladies, thanks so much for joining us. It's a huge topic. And we've just scratched the surface here, now. If someone wants to get involved, Pat, what should they do? Who should they call?

Pat Albright 
Oh, okay, well, glad to get calls or emails at the Crossroads Women's Center, and our number is 215-848-1120. And the email is Philly@allwomencount.net. And I don't have enough time for me to get into this. But there's some practical ways that people can get involved. Such as fighting to get the child tax credit continued, that we've been very much involved in because that has made a huge difference in reducing poverty. And we want it extended without any cuts. Without any work requirements. With fully refundable, so you don't have to file taxes to get it on top of benefits without cutting those benefits. And it should go directly to the mother, or primary caregiver, as a family allowance as in Europe. In the US is one of the only countries -- that the only industrialized country that doesn't provide some kind of family allowance. So that's a practical thing, as well as fighting for increasing the welfare benefits in Pennsylvania. TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families), that is for mothers with children, has not increased benefit levels since 1990. And a mother with two kids gets $403 a month. I mean, this is completely outrageous.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, we're only a couple of weeks away from the election. So we remind you endlessly that there are consequences to not voting. So vote. It matters. And thanks for bringing up the some of those bills. Yeah, it's a scandal. It's a scandal how little we do. Christine, if people want to know more about Purple House, we'll put the website up. But what would you like to see them do?

Christine Brunson 
We have a community event on October 29 from 12 to four. It's called My Purple Path. It's an awareness walk slash/resource fair. It'll start at 20th and Tioga, and we'll walk from 20 to Tioga to Broad and Huntington Park. At Broad and Huntington Park, we will have musical performances as well as women who have been impacted by intimate partner violence and incarceration. We're raising awareness about the intersection of incarceration and domestic violence. We'll have all kinds of social service vendors there, as well as local businesses that are vending as well. So that's October 29. You can support us by coming to that and learning more about the Purple House Project. Also, just follow us on social media. We're on Facebook and Instagram, Purple House Project PA. There, we share our different initiatives and upcoming community events.

Steve Martorano 
Terrific. Christine...

Pat Albright 
I forgot to announce that we have an open house at our center.

Steve Martorano 
Ahh, when?

Pat Albright 
November 4th. It's a Friday afternoon from one to four at 5013 Wayne Avenue. So the new building we're moving into that is between Mannheim and Seymour, and we're just in reintroducing ourselves at community having done a lot of renovations and finishing that up. So that's on November 4. So hopefully people will join us for that as well.

Steve Martorano 
I will make a point of putting that information up when we post this interview, Christin Brunson, thanks., and Pat Albright, for your work, obviously, and for joining us. I'd love to have you back. I know that you're going to be great resources, certainly for the community, but for this program. I appreciate your time and your work very much. Thanks, guys. And thank you all as well. Don't forget. We always like to push that subscription button. That's how you'll get the Behavioral Corner delivered to you. What can be more convenient? Steve Martorano. Take care. Bye bye.

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