Steve Martorano 
The Behavioral Corner is produced in partnership with Retreat Behavioral Health -- where healing happens.

The Behavioral Corner 
Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano, and this is the Behavioral Corner. You're invited to hang with us as we discuss how we live today, the choices we make, what we do, and how they affect our health and well-being. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner. Please hang around for a while.

Steve Martorano 
Hi, everybody. Welcome to the Behavioral Corner. It's me again, Steve Martorano, hanging on the Corner and hoping that we run into interesting people. And we do all the time because we're careful about this. The Behavioral Corner is about everything because everything winds up affecting our behavioral health in one way or another. So made possible by our underwriting partners Retrea Behavioral Health, you'll hear more about them later on down the road. So before I introduce our guest, let me point out that this is something of a departure for us. I mean, this is not the sort of topic you might associate immediately with behavioral health. But I think it will become apparent why because it's a kind of startling take on the topic of sex work. And that's what we're going to be talking about. You may or may not be familiar with OnlyFans, an explosively popular website that has lots of things, but it's generally thought of in the area of adult content, which is the best way to put that. And we have a young woman with us now who is on a path toward a successful career in the law. She has a law degree. And at some point, the path diverted, and she found herself working as an independent contractor for herself, leaving the wall behind and winding up on the site OnlyFans. We welcome Jazmen Jafar to the program. Hi, Jazmen. Thank you for joining us.

Jazmen Jafar 
Yeah, absolutely. I'm really excited to be here.

Steve Martorano 
I get most of that, right?

Jazmen Jafar 
Yes, I graduated. I passed the bar, I actually worked for about six to seven months at a law firm and then decided that it wasn't for me.

Steve Martorano 
After the rigors of a law, a law degree...

Jazmen Jafar 
Yeah. I did all the hard work. And then I was like...

Steve Martorano 
Well, you know, I know you'll get into this a little bit, but it's not a surprise to me that Overwhelmingly, people who start out the way you did, don't find out the law is not for them until after they've done all the work and have to become a lawyer. You know, it's like,

Jazmen Jafar  
Exactly.

Steve Martorano 
It's not LA Law or Law and Order. Yeah. Let's talk about your background before we talk about the site and what you do on it. You come from a first of all, Middle Eastern background. And probably regardless of you know, the location of a background where your family might go, you're going to do what? Tell us about that.

Jazmen Jafar 
Yeah, so both of my parents are actually immigrants from Iran. I'm sure this is true for most student cultures. But in Persian culture, it's very common that your parents kind of tell you, okay, do you want to be a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer? That's just kind of the three default professions. My dad's an engineer, my mom's a lawyer, and my sister's a lawyer. And school kind of always came easy to me. I like learning, and I like school. So I was like, alright, well, out of those three, I guess I'll be a lawyer. And so I did everything I was supposed to do. I did really well in school, scored very well on the LSAT got a full ride to a great school. And I always knew that I didn't want to work like, you know, a traditional law job eight to five. I knew I saw my mom doing it while I was growing up with really long hours, especially if you are working at a bigger firm, which is kind of the goal for a lot of people, and then she broke up in her own practice. But I just thought, hey, this is my life. This is the path that was set forth for me. And that's what I'm going to do. And everybody else in school was just happy. They were, like, excited to graduate. And I was dreading it. I even considered, like, his law school is three years. I'm like, "What can I do to, like, extend this?" Like, can I go get an LLM? Can I maybe go, you know, just trying to do whatever I could to stay in school and not have to deal with the like, I guess, mundane reality of a nine-to-five?

Steve Martorano 
Not to mention having to tell your parents that you changed your mind.

Jazmen Jafar 
Yeah, exactly. You know, and I think they like they were like, you know, you don't have to go into big law, you could do something else. They were trying to find ways for me to find like, because obviously you can do a lot of different things with a law degree and they knew I actually love psychology. They're like maybe you could do something with the law in psychology. Maybe you could go eventually get your Ph.D. and say psychology and stuff. So they knew that I didn't want to do like what my mom and sister were doing. But obviously, they never wanted me or expected a shift...the career shift

Steve Martorano 
You threw...you threw them a real curveball, yes, no doubt about that. Tell us how you found out about OnlyFans.

Jazmen Jafar 
The 2020 pandemic hit. And that was kind of when OnlyFans started becoming very popular. Everybody was hearing about it. I was still in school at the time school had become virtual. So it was online. And I actually had no social media at the time. So pretty rare. But like, you know, I was, I'm 28. Now I was, I'm not sure. And I had never had an Instagram never had anything. So it wasn't something that as soon as I heard about it, I was like, that's what I'm gonna do. I didn't even think I could do it. I was like, I don't even have an online presence. You know, whatever. 2021 comes along, I graduated in May, and I'm taking the bar in July. One of my other friends in law school was like, I have like a secret OnlyFans account. And I'm like, like, it was just so shocking to me. And she's like, Yeah, no, you know, I'm making a little bit of extra money, you know? And I'm like, Well, how do you start one, and she kind of was like, This is what you do. And then you can promote yourself on Reddit, which I wasn't familiar with, at the time, really even at all. And I'm like, okay, you know what, let me just try it. I never thought it was going to be what it is today. And I'm like, you know, I'll have a little extra money studying for the bar. And then, obviously, I'll quit. I'll delete everything and go on my merry way to being a lawyer. So I started it and actually took off fairly quickly. And I was already like, within like a month, month and a half, making what I would make probably as a brand new associate. So...

Steve Martorano 
What is that...what is that? 60 75,000 a year?

Jazmen Jafar 
Yeah, before you get licensed. So that's actually, I was making 75 a year before I got licensed in the got up to 100. And then it would have kept going if I...

Steve Martorano 
And how quickly did you get to that figure on OnlyFans?

Jazmen Jafar 
I think my second month I already was making like eight grand. And then by the third month, it was 10. And then by the time I started my job, it was like 30...50, it was just...it was such good money. And so I was like, oh, okay, so I was like, let me try to put off getting a job isn't I wasn't applying for anything, I would just tell my parents, oh, pandemic, you know, like, and then a really great job opportunity fell into my lap from an old externship I had done and if I was going to go into law, this would have been the perfect job for me. It was a great firm environment. Everybody was great. As it was...it actually had a decent work-life balance. And I go to the interview. I get hired right away. And I call my sister, and I'm like, I got the job. But I don't know if I want to take it. She's like, are you crazy? What is wrong with you? Like, this is perfect. And she's like, um, she's like if you want to do OnlyFans, fine. Just do it on the side. Do both. So I was like, Okay, let me do both. So I was living this like double life where it was like, in the day, I was that firm. And then at night, I would come in, I would film, and I would interact with fans. I spent a lot of my weekends shooting. And it's been almost actually a year. It was a year ago that I was like, like, I just want to focus on my online content creation.

Steve Martorano 
What was your expectation when you found that your friend had a secret...it's hard to imagine...a secret website. What was your understanding of what she was doing on OnlyFans that you might be able to do as well?

Jazmen Jafar 
Posting pictures and making some extra money, honestly.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. So it was basically lingerie shots or full nudity? Or what was she...how far was she pushing the envelope?

Jazmen Jafar 
She was faceless for the most part. And she was doing...She was doing nudity. I actually didn't start faceless. So I did like a big deep dive on whether or not I could get in trouble for this with the bar. And you couldn't. I actually disclose it to the bar because I still had to pass character and fitness. And there's nothing they can really do about it. Unless...

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, is that right? The bar wouldn't prohibit you from doing something like this?

Jazmen Jafar 
They would have to argue that it's moral turpitude, which, especially in this day and age, they wouldn't want to touch that now, firms have the complete right not to hire you over something like this.

Steve Martorano 
Oh course.

Jazmen Jafar 
If it doesn't align with their values. So that is kind of the issue was like, Okay, you're not in trouble with the bar, but can you get hired and would you get fired over something like this? And the answer is probably depending on where you were. Yes. But it wasn't going to impact my license. So because of that, I'm like, okay, and like because it was so like Reddit. It was so low-key. I'm like, you know, I wasn't super worried that, you know, it was going to blow up at that point and impact my ability to get a job. While I was working at the firm I would get nervous, like, I'd have random days where I'm like, are they going to find out? And I think that's one of the reasons that I ended up leaving. I was like, I don't want them to find out and fire me. So I'm just going to leave. And there is a divide between, like the older legal, I guess it is still a conservative profession, especially the older generation. My generation, like, my mentor, who was like, maybe like, 35...36, she didn't care. She knew about it. It's funny now that it's like blown up. And I was in Business Insider, the lawyer in the office next to me, he's like, I don't know, 50, something Mormon guy, he texted me, he's like, Oh, this is great. Like, things are changing. But I knew that the partners, they're still of the old generation, and they would have a big issue with something like this.

Steve Martorano 
They would probably have...it seems to me, they would have an issue. That at the very least, went to the issue of your competency as a lawyer, even if they could get past whatever moral objections they had to an associate, posing semi-nude or nude on a website. They would seem to go, Yeah, but she's going to project an image of not a good lawyer, a good lawyer

Jazmen Jafar 
Yeah, you know, it sounds the same. Cover your tattoos. Come off as professional, it's not professional. I completely understand that. So that would be something that if you know, you're hiring an associate, you don't want the associate representing your firm to come off as not professional. There's actually a judgment, I don't know if you heard who also had an OnlyFans.

Steve Martorano 
Oh, no, I mean, the word delves into it, the more I realize it's remarkable...two things are remarkable. There are all kinds of women that are doing this...maybe men, too I don't know. And they are as you are unabashed about talking about.

Jazmen Jafar 
So yeah, I think OnlyFans...so "sex work" is like a big umbrella term and it's like a spectrum, right? Because it encompasses everything from people who are working the streets, you know, to dance, to porn stars, OnlyFans was a form of sex work. That's so easy. It's like you just in your room, it could be you know, so the local barista...lawyer, whoever can kind of get into it. And so it's brought in a lot of people into this industry that would have probably otherwise never gotten into the sex work industry like myself included. So it is becoming kind of mainstream, especially as, as time goes on. And that's what the other attorney that my mentor even said, she's like, Yeah, I don't think this will be even the problem, the problem that it is now, I don't think in 20 years, it's going to be that and I agree.

Steve Martorano 
Let's, you know, I'm two or three hundred years older than you. So I don't know that I will make it to that moment where it's ordinary. We're certainly not there now. But conversations like this are fascinating. And I know you said you had a psych background in college as well. And so we'll delve into that a little bit. But the nuts and bolts of this thing are just fascinating to me. While you're on the down low with this deal. Do you, you know, do you worry that you're going to be buying coffee one morning, and somebody's going to go, oh, I follow you on the OnlyFans. Has that ever happened to you?

Jazmen Jafar 
In happened in an In and Out drive-thru once?

Steve Martorano 
Okay.

Jazmen Jafar 
I think that the person behind the window was like, probably like 18...19. And he's like, Oh, I seen you on...I'm like, okay, cool. Like, that doesn't really bother me. I do sometimes get people that recognize me. And then they'll message me later and be like, I think I just saw you, they don't actually, like have them, if they're too nervous to say anything in person. I also don't really go anywhere. I'm introverted. I stay home all the time. So it's, and I'm not, you know, like, I walk outside and the paparazzi is like, hey, you know, and that's kind of the case with all kinds of content creators, I guess, in the sense if you're asking me that because the nature of what I do is explicit if that part bothers me that people are seeing me in an explicit way. And while I'm home, I feel like I have the screen and I have like this kind of I feel safe. And then if I'm out and I've actually confronted people. That doesn't know, I don't think it as long as the person did. It makes me feel uncomfortable if they were just like, hey, I'm one of your fans. I don't think it would bother me at all.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, by the way, we should mention that this is a subscription-based business model. It's not available to just everybody. Free, you have to subscribe. You promote it on other social media platforms...Reddit...you mentioned, and so the growth was explosive. You left the law; you're now doing this. At what point did you tell your parents?

Jazmen Jafar  
I actually told my parents this for us. I started a new job. So I already knew they weren't talking to me at the time. But actually, when I got that job, they both texted me and they were like, Oh, it's so good that you're getting this job. Now you can leave that world behind. And I was like, No, I'm not. I'm not leaving that world. I'm just gonna do both. Do you know? I am pretty headstrong, and I didn't have a problem with what I was doing. It didn't conflict with my values and my morals. I knew it conflicted with theirs, but it was my life and I wanted to live a life that was conducive.

Steve Martorano 
Have they seen the site?

Jazmen Jafar 
No, my parents are not like...my dad's barely knows how to get on Google.

Steve Martorano 
You could have...you could have helped him.

Jazmen Jafar 
But yes, I wouldn't probably direct him to my OnlyFans account. But they know, I guess somewhat the nature of it again, they come from a conservative Middle Eastern country. They're not super familiar with like...you know, they think like bikini pics like my dad. If you see the bikini pic, he thinks it's nudity. So I don't think could comprehend the kind of stuff that's going on on OnlyFans. Now. We kind of have a Don't Ask, Don't Tell kind of policy.

Steve Martorano  
Yeah. It would be a bridge too far for lots of dads. And yeah,

Jazmen Jafar 
I know and I and my dad are very, very close like we are...he's my best friend. I'm such a daddy's girl. We talk every day. So which is a misconception about sex work, too, right? Oh, daddy issues, blah, blah, blah. The only type of daddy issue I have is that my dad like probably spoiled me a lot. Like, that's like, that's not that he wasn't out. He wasn't there. None of that. And so now we're at a point where like, you know, I just moved into this house like a month ago, he set up my rig light everything like, he just, you know, he and I are trying to get into ...

Steve Martorano 
He's set up with your rig light.

Jazmen Jafar 
Yeah, I think in his head. He just says like, I because it is true that I'm trying to get into more like other forms of content creation, social, political commentary, etc. So I was telling him that, and I'm like, Yeah, I'm going to try, you know, to do more YouTube videos, blah, blah, blah. And I think in his head now, he's just seeing it as like, that's what she's doing. He's kind of avoiding the...

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, it sounds like he's observing you applying the skills he always hoped you would use in your life, only you're doing it in this context, rather than a context he expected.

Jazmen Jafar 
Exactly. And I do bring that to my fans. So I even sent him a couple of messages that I got, and I get messages like this every day, like, oh, you know, the book you recommended really, like, changed my life, or, you know, we...Every Monday, I get on...I get on Twitch, and I discuss some type of topic. And then I go live on OnlyFans right after and do like a sexy life. So it's really interesting. So I like yesterday, we did, like the Second Amendment and the Constitution. So like, I bring my nerdiness to my fans, and then I get messages all the time talking about that aspect of it, we're talking about how I inspired them. And my dad knows part of the reason I even wanted to get in psychology for so long because I've always wanted to help people. And interestingly enough, my sex work has been a vehicle towards me, that's allowed me to actually help and touch way more people than I ever could really with the law.

Steve Martorano 
So there's a...there's a kind of dovetailing here of the, you know, explicit stuff that attracts attention, but also the ability to influence I mean, influencing is a big deal. Lots of people are making very, very handsome living, just as influencers, Our guest, is Jazmen Jafar, she is...she has her own OnlyFans site. She's doing many other things on social media, under the umbrella of the term she uses very freely, you've heard her say it, and that is sex work. You don't back away from what'll be easy for you to call yourself. Well, I'm just a content creator.

Jazmen Jafar 
Yeah. No

Steve Martorano 
You don't back away from sex work?

Jazmen Jafar 
Not at all. Not at all. I'm very passionate about being open about sex work and kind of breaking those barriers. That is part of what I try to do. So even doing those two lines back to back I get a lot of subscribers that are like, well, after I heard you talk, you're actually really smart and this, and now it's kind of hard for me to see you in the sexual context. Well, why you know, like, why and then once people get once that people are exposed to that over and over again, then they're like, yeah, the more I got exposed to it, the more I realize it's not a big deal. That's kind of one of what I want to do with my platform.

Steve Martorano 
You know, I hear a certain subscribers say, if you'll pardon me, "Shut up and take your clothes off." And others because it was just a turn-off for him. Why is she smarter than I am? I don't know. I really liked what she had to say. And I don't care whether she has her clothes on or not. Do you know what your demographic breakdown is, men to women?

Jazmen Jafar 
Um, well on OnlyFans, it's majority vast, vast majority Men, but a lot of couples actually subscribe to me. And I have some girls but is the vast majority are men. If you look at the top OnlyFans girls, a lot of them are Twitch streamers. A lot of them are online social media personalities. What people don't understand is part of the reason OnlyFans is so popular and people subscribe to OnlyFans, it's because they want a connection with the creator, which you don't get in traditional mainstream porn.

Steve Martorano 
It also has the benefit of I mean, this may be the ultimate DIY thing I've ever seen. Because, in fairness to the platform, there are many other things going on there. Beyond sexually explicit material. People are doing all kinds of things on all I guess you can go there and find out how to fix your carburetor on your car.

Jazmen Jafar 
Right.

Steve Martorano  
Yeah. Are you single now?

Jazmen Jafar 
Yes.

Steve Martorano  
Unattached?

Jazmen Jafar 
Yes. Unattached.

Steve Martorano 
Has it had any kind of impact on your dating life? Or, you...

Jazmen Jafar 
No, and this is a common question that I get. I have never met anybody like since I've done this that has had a problem with it. Now maybe it's also because the type of people I would normally go for are people that usually align with my values. I'm not trying to date somebody in the Bible Belt. It's just not me. So you'd be surprised. I mean, it's 2023. And a lot of people are just like, yeah, there's nothing wrong with sex work, and go for it. If I was you, I'd be doing the same thing. That's the main sentiment that I get from men. Now online, you'll get a lot of men that are like, Oh, my God, I would never marry somebody like this. It's like, well, I don't want to marry you either. But in person, I never...it hasn't impacted my dating life at all.

Steve Martorano 
Let's talk about...you mentioned briefly, you know, what you do on OnlyFans? You showed...do you reveal your face? Or no?

Jazmen Jafar 
Yes.

Steve Martorano 
You do?

Jazmen Jafar 
I pretty much reveal everything.

Steve Martorano 
Is there a line you draw that you will not go over with regard to content?

Jazmen Jafar 
If it's anything that makes me uncomfortable, or like any, like if a subscriber asked for something, and it's just not something I want to do. Usually, it's not because I think it's like, it makes me uncomfortable. It's just like, too weird or too, like, I'm just like, I don't even know how to do this, you know, especially when I started I was doing more like custom content. Now I don't really have time. And my following is really big.

Steve Martorano 
But what do you mean by...what do you mean by...you mean, you take requests?

Jazmen Jafar 
Yes, request. So you would pay, like, if you wanted a five-minute video, you would pay like $60 per minute when I was starting, and you are someone would be like, Hey, can you do this? And can you do this kind of roleplay scene for me? And so some of those I would find, and I if I was to get them now, I would still decline. Anything that I don't enjoy doing. One thing I like to use my platform is I want to be as authentic as possible. So if you're asking me to do something that I don't want to do or I don't enjoy doing, I am no problem. Putting those boundaries in place of, like, I won't show this, or I won't show that actually just started posting in February tapes with somebody else. So I'm, I'm full in.

Steve Martorano 
I'm sorry...someone else in the...

Jazmen Jafar 
Yeah, it's like posting...posting sex tapes. Yes.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, you've provided...you and a man or you and a woman

Jazmen Jafar 
Yes.

Steve Martorano 
You do these things together. So, it's no-holds barred as long as you're okay with it?

Jazmen Jafar 
Exactly. There's nothing that...my whole thing is is if I'm comfortable doing it, I'll do it. There's stuff I'm uncomfortable doing. I don't have a moral opposition to doing it. I just don't want to do it. And sometimes, you know, sometimes people are like, Okay, can you do a scene where we're like on a boat? And I don't know how to do this like no.

Steve Martorano 
The boat won't fit in the studio. Do you have anyone helped you...so your father put up your your light rig, but the camera was just doesn't take much technical expertise. Do you have a crew that puts us together? Do you do it yourself?

Jazmen Jafar 
I have an assistant that helps me promote on different social media platforms, responds to some messages on my behalf, and can like to provide content to fans who are asking for it. But I make a point that is very different from other creators that are as big as me on there. I don't have anybody have conversations with my fans on my behalf and create this parasocial relationship. I don't think that's ethical. And that's not how I learned this even if I could make more money doing it. So I'll either be talking to my fans or I'll have somebody just answer like simple like, how much is this? How much is that I'm not gonna have somebody pretend to be me. Go in there and someone, you know, telling you about their life and their marriage over, and they think they're talking to me, and they're talking to someone else. I don't find that.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, there's a lot of that that goes on.

Jazmen Jafar 
There's a lot of that that goes on.

Steve Martorano 
How many subscribers do you have?

Jazmen Jafar 
I don't know how many are active, but like 11...12,000 Probably that are active. Probably I've got over 80..90 since I started.

Steve Martorano 
What is the subscription cost?

Jazmen Jafar 
The subscription is only $6.99. And then you can buy additional...so every other day I dropped the video, and you can buy it like it's a longer video. You can find that video I do live stream, I get tips, oh subscription is...

Steve Martorano 
Tips as well? How's the money transacted? Do they use credit cards to pay you? Is that how it works?

Jazmen Jafar 
Yeah, it's through OnlyFans, and OnlyFans isn't the only way that I make money. So I run a Snapchat premium where people can cash out need to get on or whatever. Um, I have built like personal relationships with fans who will just send me money. It's a completely not related to OnlyFans. They like to find me on Reddit, whatever. But old through OnlyFans, it's just through the platform.

Steve Martorano 
This is the first opportunity I've ever had to ask questions like this about your business.

Jazmen Jafar 
Ask me anything.

Steve Martorano 
Ask me anything. What about being able to separate sex acts in a work context...from a personal context? Do you have any...I mean, it's gotta be it's a different experience when you're with someone privately, right?

Jazmen Jafar 
Yeah. So like, for instance, the person that I'm having sex with on camera, we have sex on our own too, you know, so it just like, we could just be into it. And then all of a sudden, we'll get out the phone, and we'll start recording. I don't really notice much of like. I don't feel I'm just so comfortable with it. Like, I'm comfortable having sex and having other people see it, personally. It doesn't make me feel weird. It doesn't make me feel like it doesn't change anything for me...

Steve Martorano 
Is it more...is it more exciting for you thinking about people watching?

Jazmen Jafar 
Ahhh, not necessarily. Sometimes. And that's why like, we don't film every time there are times where we're like having where we've had sex. And he's like, do you want to film it? And I'm like, No, I don't feel like filming it right now. Other times, I'm in the mood to film it, right? So I think it's hotter to film it. So it just depends on my mood. Even the solo stuff I would do like, I would not film unless I was in the mood to film it. And that's one of the things about OnlyFans I don't have a boss, it's just me. If I'm not in the mood, I won't film it. There are a lot of times where I'm like, oh, you know, I should put a video out, but I don't feel it. I don't feel like it. And that's okay.

Steve Martorano 
So you really feel I know you do, I could tell from just this conversation and what I've read that the entire notion surrounding sex work will ultimately move out of the sleazy and dangerous realm, or maybe it will never leave the dangerous realm, certainly the salacious realm and just become something people do now, in public, as it were virtually in public.

Jazmen Jafar 
I mean, it's gonna be...it's not going to be overnight, I don't think, but we are easily moving in that direction. Now, simultaneously, we are getting pushed back to the right. Because anytime there's going to be social change, the opposition to that is more intense. Putting a lot of that as well. We're which we're seeing through legislation that's being passed. It's been negative.

Steve Martorano 
Well, yeah. I mean, they're, you know, they always threatened every now, and that's got the credit card companies and the banks to get out of this business, facilitating the transactions.

Jazmen Jafar 
And it's worked a couple of times. I want to say this, with OnlyFans, there's an ethical component to because on OnlyFans, everything is verified, like I have to be verified anyone that wants to come on my page, they have to send in their ID, they have to fill out a bunch of paperwork, they have to fill out a consent form. So when people are consuming this kind of content, if you get it through OnlyFans, not only is the money going directly to the person, exploitation, and all that is more rampant in the mainstream porn industry isn't happening here, you know, nobody's underage, you know, nobody didn't consent for their content to be out there, you know, so I feel like OnlyFans is moving it towards this model. Whereas like, you used to just go on whatever free site and you had no idea what the hell you were watching.

Steve Martorano 
Are you completely confident that no one is being exploited? No one is being coerced?

Jazmen Jafar 
I don't like to speak in absolutes. So I'm not saying that nobody has ever been exploited. And you know, somebody could have an abusive partner. It's forcing them to be on OnlyFans. That's true. But when it compares to other forms of sex work, the exploitation is way less. It's like everything...so, like, we pay taxes. All our information is in there. We have very rigid requirements for bringing somebody else in it would be a lot harder. I don't think OnlyFans is even. I think that's part of the reason they're so strict and even now, like they'll go through, and they'll start if you have any infraction, we'll give you a strike, and you can't be putting random people on there.

Steve Martorano 
Can get thrown off the site, I guess, right?

Jazmen Jafar 
You can, and a lot of people get thrown off the site. Anything about meeting up in person or anything which I never do and I never wanted to do. That's not allowed. You're not even allowed to sell or ship fans like your bra and underwear...like they're very strict. This is strictly online virtual content created for people that are 18 and older. You need a credit card to get on the site. You have to be...I think it's as safe as we can get it.

Steve Martorano 
And it's in that context that you said in a couple of interviews you've done that, contrary to what has historically been the case, with women in sex work, and substance abuse, depression, anxiety, this experience you believe, will reverse, if not eradicate that context and allow you to be in control of everything. So you wouldn't necessarily suffer psychologically, you believe that, right?

Jazmen Jafar 
I would say that I would...my mental health was and would be worse if I was a lawyer. I mean, you know, this, too, lawyers have a high rate of substance abuse, depression, suicide, etc. It's one of the unhappiest professions you can be. So for me, personally, sex work has been...I have time, I have freedom, I feel in control, I am in control of the content I put out, I feel like my work is meaningful, and I'm touching lives. I, I love my job. And so I don't have those negative...that doesn't mean nothing ever goes wrong. That doesn't mean I don't. I don't have bad days. Does that mean every single day is so I wake up every day, I'm like, I am so empowered, blah, blah, blah, there are bad days to their days, I don't see like doing this, there are days where like, you know, you get banned off a lot. That's probably the hardest part, just the treatment we get from social media platforms. You're getting banned. You're going to be platformed. It's like we're struggling. The legislation that's being passed is sometimes going to harm us like that's, that's difficult. There's no like HR or anything like you's on your own kind of, but the actual work I do, I don't feel like it is having those negative...A lot of times when people talk about the negative impacts of sex work, they are looking at it from the perspective of, like, oh, the people that are in the worst position, like the people walking Skid Row that are addicted to drugs, yes. But that's one form of sex work. And that can go from anything to people like me that are making six figures a month, living a great life with a bunch of time, freedom and money, and happiness. So...

Steve Martorano 
You know, one of the major goals in life is to do something that you find meaningful and makes you happy. You're living your best life as a sex worker. Is that what your position is?

Jazmen Jafar 
What I do actually warms my heart. So I always get all the time like, you need to contribute to society. I can't believe you love your job as a lawyer, where you are contributing to society, and now you're not. And no, I didn't like, I mean, my job, a lot of it had to do with helping wealthy people avoid paying taxes before. Like, I would come home every day and be, Oh, I'm so fulfilled. Now. I feel like I'm impacting lives, I'm changing people's perception of sex work, and I get messages like that all the time. I'm showing people that it's not a last resort. It's not something people do just because they have no other options. I'm trying to get rid of that stigma. And that, to me, is a mission that makes me feel fulfilled. It makes me excited every day. Are you a

Steve Martorano 
You are a remarkable spokesperson for that. Sure, somebody's done this, but can I offer you a title for the next thing you want to do? You should call what you're doing the Naked Truth. That would be a great title.

Jazmen Jafar 
I love that.

Steve Martorano 
Do you like that? Okay. Let me ask you this. And finally, with regard to the nature of social media and the Internet, which is, oh, you know, once it's digitized and out there. It can escape. And you know, you're the model you've talked about puts you in control, working with your partners at home with OnlyFans. There are, according to what I read, examples of content that escaped, and it's now in the standard porn sites. Is that correct?

Jazmen Jafar 
Yes, that does happen. Yes, that does happen. A lot of us models work with companies that will scan the Internet for it, and we'll do the takedowns. So no, I wouldn't tell anyone. Someone's like, I want to start OnlyFans, but I want to be sure nothing will ever get leaked, and blah, blah, blah. But no, that's a possibility. That's a reality of the industry that you're in. And yeah, you can get the content taken down. Sometimes it's easier than others. You can get it delisted from Google. But I mean, the fact that people are seeing me naked clearly doesn't bother me. So I don't like it if my stuff is late because you should be behind a paywall, and I usually get it taken down. But I don't think that that is like, oh my God, the internet sees me naked like...

Steve Martorano 
Right, right. Well, you know, what did they ask you under different circumstances? You're 27, you say?

Jazmen Jafar 
28.

Steve Martorano 
Under different circumstances, I would have asked you, how much longer can you really do this? And then, of course, Martha Stewart shows up on the cover of Sports Illustrated at 81, So you got a long run.

Jazmen Jafar 
Oh my gosh, I have lived...I know we've been doing this. I mean, there's, and that's the great thing about OnlyFans is that you and, like Reddit, for instance, you can post in different subreddits for your aesthetic. So there are MILFS Over 30...Over 40 Over whatever. People want to see that specific type of content. So yeah, you can do this for a long time. And, like I said, I want to start, you know, moving into the social-political commentary. You could do that for a lot longer. Yeah, this is not something that you know. You expire when you're 30. And you're not going to be me. A lot of women well into their 30s and 40s are making a killing still on OnlyFans.

Steve Martorano 
Jazmen Jafar, thank you so much. It's a terrific perspective on it. I look forward to the reaction from our listeners on the Behavioral Corner to see what they think about all this. It's been an eye-opener for me if you'll pardon the pun. I want to thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it.

Jazmen Jafar 
Thank you so much for having me on. I really enjoyed the conversation.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, I want to remind everybody don't forget. Like Jazmen, we love subscriptions. Just push the button and subscribe to Behavioral Corner. Follow us like this. And we'll catch you next time on the Corner. Take care.

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