Steve Martorano  
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The Behavioral Corner  
Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano, and this is the Behavioral Corner. You're invited to hang with us as we discuss how we live today, the choices we make, what we do, and how they affect our health and well-being. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner. Please hang around for a while.

Steve Martorano  
Hey, everybody. Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Behavioral Corner with me, Steve Martorano. I have this kind of cushy gig, I hang on the corner, metaphorically speaking, and hope I run into interesting people. So far, I've been lucky, I hope you'll agree, The Behavioral Corner is about everything, in a word, that affects our mental, physical, and spiritual well-being. We've touched upon a lot of topics in that area. As you can imagine, over the years we've been doing that it's all brought to us by our underwriting partners Retreat Behavioral Health, you'll hear more about them a little bit later. So I think we have an interesting one for you today. And one that you may not be aware of when you mentioned the music business to almost anyone, they will associate it with three things, sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll. Four things if you count Taylor Swift. And that's been the way it's been forever. I mean, I sort of grew up in that business. My first job in broadcasting was to be, you know, a hippie disc jockey and play records on underground radio. So I have lots of friends in this business. And really, that has been the stereotypical image of this business. That's true. There's no denying that that's been the bedrock foundation, of sex, drugs, and rock and roll. But as we now know, there are consequences for that kind of lifestyle. Some people do really well and manage it, Keith Richards comes along, and others don't make it right. Others don't, they have problems. And an organization sprang up a couple of years ago that we're gonna find out about today, called Backline. They're a 501 C, that's a nonprofit, and I'll read you briefly from their terrific website you gotta go to the Backlive website. Their mission is to connect music industry professionals, and their families with a trusted network of mental health and wellness providers. It's astonishing to think that what's going on behind the scenes in the music business. To that end, we welcome a clinical associate, Brad Cole, from a Backline to the Corner. Brad, thanks for putting up with that long-winded introduction.

Brad Cole 
Oh, of course, thank you so much for having me even very excited to get to chat with you about all this and give you a little bit of a glimpse into what we do.

Steve Martorano 
Again, you know, on a local basis, just the dawn of the pandemic, a fellow in the music business here in my hometown, talked about a little nonprofit he had started, which was basically what you guys had been doing for a while. And it got me thinking about how extraordinary that is, to think that behind the scenes of these, you know, these shows a bit large and small, whether it's a bar, you're going to see a band or a baseball stadium, there's a whole lot of people involved in an operation like that. And a Backline was scribbled out, you tell me the story, tell me the when how, and why Backline was created.

Brad Cole 
You know, back in 2019, I don't know it was right before the pandemic, we somehow had some crystal ball to know that there was about to you know, hit the fan. And our co-founders, you know, they're they've already had ties and connections into the music industry, some of them working in the music industry themselves. Artists, and, you know, they really already understood the gap in access to mental health care, and also the large stigma that exists in the music industry about even asking for help. As you mentioned, sex, drugs, rock and roll, everybody's like, Oh, that must be the cushiest Gay must be the best gig and your life is awesome. Well, they don't like you said, you know, think about all the pieces and all the people that are involved. And anyway, that gap was getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And then following the loss of, of two really close friends and music industry professionals to our co-founders, they kind of had said enough is enough and put together Backline really with the hope to create a more supportive and more safe music industry for folks. And to create a space in which you can ask for help. And from there, we just kind of hit the ground running. I joined the team just about after a year after it had been going along and October of 20 oh excuse me August of 2020. And yeah, that's kind of where we originated.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, there's nothing like an idea whose time has arrived is pretty strong. And the pandemic wrote a lot of things into focus. So with regard to how big a problem is out there, how would you characterize... I mean, it may be is wild and wooly as it was when I was young, but I doubt it. But with the problem associated with that kind of lifestyle in this kind of a business, how large a problem is it?

Brad Cole 
It's a pretty large one, you know, I shouldn't have brought my exact numbers with you. But we do have some data just to see like, compared to national averages. And when, you know, when, when asked about mental health challenges, music industry professionals actually reported higher incidences of anxiety, depression, and I do know, the really staggering piece of data is that suicidality and suicidal attempts, is four times the national average, for music industry professional,

Steve Martorano 
Is that right?

Brad Cole 
It is it is. And that's, that showed enough light on it for us to know that it was a pretty significant problem. And it's just not talked about at all in the industry.

Steve Martorano 
You know, two things about why it's not talked about, we would have seemed to me, one is that who thinks that glamorous business, sunglasses and movie stars and all that. And the second, and more importantly, I would guess, is that it again, it's funny, this is kind of a reverse stigma. When we talk about stigmas regarding mental health issues, it's usually the public at large stigmatizing the sufferers, but there's correct me if I'm wrong, isn't there within the community of the music industry, people are kind of self-perpetuating stigma, I can't talk about this. I gotta muscle I got to do this. Is that the case?

Brad Cole  
Yes, absolutely. That's where we noticed the biggest...the reason why there's such a big gap in access is people too, you know, too worried about what it's going to look like if they're asking for mental health help.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, they ain't rock and roll, right?

Brad Cole 
Exactly, exactly. And there is, uh, you know, sides of the industry that aren't glamorous, you know, the sides that we don't see. And, you know, it can get really messy really quickly for folks. And, you know, this is their creation, a lot of folks are their passion is to be involved in the industry in some capacity. And then they feel weak, if they need to ask for help, even though it is where it's such demanding work, a schedule that we never know if we're going to where we're going to be, especially in the summertime when it's music festival season. So yeah, there's that kind of self, like you said, that self-perpetuating stigma of like, I can't ask for help.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. It's an interesting concept, too. For people who might not have thought about it. You're right, you see the band on stage. And there's Bruce and, and that's pretty much it for most people. But, you know, there's a zillion people that work to put that together. My experience, and I think you'll back it up is that no one, no one involved in putting on a music industry show of any size is there, you know, because they couldn't get a job at McDonald's, you know, what I mean? They, they're in the music business, the guy plugging things in and lugging speakers and, you know, the security guys learn, they think they're in show business, and they are. And so it's hard to pull away from that kind of a, it's a lifestyle more almost as much as it is a profession.

Brad Cole 
Absolutely. And that actually creates an even bigger gap for folks to find like a therapist to get the lifestyle, who understands like, you know, the inner workings of it, the language that's used like a lot of people don't know, they just go to the show, they watch the rock star, and they leave and they go home. They don't realize that there's, like so much nuance to this business.

Steve Martorano 
But it's interesting because they're operating in an environment that again, from the outside looks like, well, that's the kind of place you stay away from, if you've got a substance abuse issue, where you've got to, or you're a depressed or anxious person, why would you want to be in that environment? Well, because that's the environment. Alright, so tell me how it works. So are you guys set up backstage at concerts or how do the people in the end and by the way, that people in the industry, this really astonish me, it's not just the band, it's their managers, it's their agents, the promoters by the way of the whole group, there's, there's a category that could use all the mental health advice they can get, and the crew and then the family members, there's a lot of people in the community. So how does it work? How do they find out about you guys?

Brad Cole 
Yeah, and I appreciate you saying that, because we do offer our services to anybody that has a hand in the music industry, anyone that makes it happen, from venue security all the way up to the major artists. We want to make sure that we're helping the whole ecosystem. But really how it works is we have multiple ways right now most of the people you hear about are through word of mouth. So really grateful to be chatting with you today and get kind of our information out into the world for your audience. We put a lot of signage up in venues in green rooms, you know where venue staff, congregates. We're very very active on social media and try to engage in any type of chat we can to get the message out. And currently, we are we're working on expanding, you know, partnerships with major, you know, bigger companies to make sure we're in as many venues across the country as possible.

Steve Martorano 
How many of the sort of ancillary, we call them partners, but people involved in the business are supportive of you guys from the promoter to the venue? Are they hands-in on this enough on Backline?

Brad Cole 
You know, as much as they're willing and able to, I would say, and, you know, a lot of folks that helped create this have had hands in the music industry at some point. But, you know, we're working to break the stigma and to have everybody involved in this, we want everybody that's a part of the industry to see the importance of mental health and wellness. So, you know, it's up to them if they want to get involved with us, but we've never really I'm, at least me in my experience. So we've never experienced anybody being like I have, we don't want to help, or we don't want to get involved in that. So we have received a lot of support as we continue to expand our visibility in the industry.

Steve Martorano 
I didn't want to put you on the spot here. But I guess your question just popped into my head. When people have scraped together the three or $4,000 it takes to get a ticket to one of these shows. And among the charges are you know, a laundry list of fees that the ticket agency that shall go nameless attaches to these tickets, I wonder why it's not possible for them to set aside $1 or .50 cents among those charges, and then wind up funding a nonprofit? Any effort in that regard?

Brad Cole  
Yes, actually, I'm really glad you brought that up. And right now we're working on and trying to make that more of a thing that we can, you know, these bigger ticket fellas getting them on board. But right now, we've had a couple of bands More recently, the band Goose did one dollar for every ticket sold went strictly to Backline. We're so grateful for them, the family, and of the group. And we are moving in that direction towards portions of ticket sales coming to us to support the folks putting on the magic.

Steve Martorano 
You would think they'd understand that you know, if the operation is well-adjusted and relatively happy and sane, the show winds up being better. And everybody makes a lot more money. What I'm thinking of is the obstacles to people in the industry getting help. And we've talked about a couple of the stigmas, and all of that. And I guess the other major obstacles that didn't exist were probably before you guys got involved. But what about insurance? You know, insurance is the biggie. I don't know if any unless these guys are union electricians or something. But is there a roadies union? I mean, how do these people pay for this stuff?

Brad Cole 
Yeah, I'm really glad you brought that up. Because that is a concern that we run into quite often we're not with the biggest acts necessarily. But a lot of folks that we see coming through are just up-and-coming artists or crew members or, you know, touring production managers, and, you know, with that doesn't come insurance necessarily. So we actually, we do have a couple of options. We do have a, we send people off into Music Cares. They're a wonderful organization. That's the nonprofit arm of the Grammys. They help financially with resources such as mental health care, health care, dentistry, all that stuff. But we also have an in-house grant, we're working directly with Sweet Relief, another incredible organization. So we ourselves are trying to kind of break that barrier down by offering when folks are in need, we do have an in-music mental health fund as what we call it. And it allows folks to get some funding at least for a few like the first five or six sessions to make sure that they can get some get their healing started. But that's really where we're, we're working with but good idea in terms of looking at like what unions are around.

Steve Martorano 
The union should be behind the effort of carving out some money. I mean, you know, a lot of money sloshing around a couple of those concerts. A couple of dollars off the top will take care of, you know, a lot of what we've been talking about. We're talking to Brad Cole, he is the Clinical Associate of a nonprofit that seeks to get the music industry professionals and their families, health care, mental health care, substance abuse, health care, whatever is troubling them, surprisingly, a forgotten group of people. I'm surprised, not surprised. I was impressed by the number of initiatives that you guys are always involved in one in particular that I noticed on your website is the tour and health wellness. Talking about this. It's one thing I mean on tour...on the road is going to be one of the most triggering areas for a lot of problems. So what is the tour health and wellness program about?

Brad Cole  
Yeah, I'm really glad you brought that in, and something that we're really very, very proud of. And you mean you hit the nail on the head their touring is really triggering for folks. And it's you know when you're out on the road, you don't have you you don't have a place to go back and nest, or ground yourself or feel settled. Oftentimes, they're on the road every night, they're doing something in a new city, new venue, figuring everything out. And so we put that together, it's a monthly group. So it's once a month, we run a tour health and wellness workshop, where we bring in industry professionals, there's usually a topic like how to manage anxiety, how to manage relationships on the road, those types of topics that can really help them add some tools to their tool belts. But we usually will have a clinical representative. And we also have a music industry, someone out that's out in the trenches doing the work. And it's really just an open dialogue and opportunity to hear about tips, tricks, and ways to manage and take care of your mental health and wellness while out on the road.

Steve Martorano 
Is your background in mental health counseling, or...

Brad Cole 
Yeah, I'm a licensed therapist in the state of Colorado. So my background, I graduated with my master's in 2021. So I've been most of my work has been in the mental health sphere, I do have some close friends who worked in management, and a couple of good friends who are artists. So I had an understanding of like a deeper understanding of what it's like to be in the music industry. And so Backline was obviously a natural fit for me.

Steve Martorano 
A nice fit. Let me ask you about the headliners, the superstars, they attract all the attention, and many of them now over the past 20 years at least, have been very, very open about their substance abuse issues. I mean, it's not an easy thing for a pop star to stand up and say I had a problem. And further don't do it. It's not good. That's another thing that's sort of counterintuitive. Are you looking to get to those people or you know, the troops?

Brad Cole 
You know, really anybody. But right now, you know, who we've seen coming through our case management service through Backline services reaching out to us are more of the up-and-comers are the folks who are really just establishing their career either as artists, or as managers, tour managers, though, of course, we have seen some, you know, folks who are maybe you could call bigger names that have come through, but as of right now, it's really anybody that has a hand in the industry. And from what we've seen the folks that are needing the most help, are those that are really just starting to get their feet wet in the industry or who have been in a long time, maybe not the highest level of accomplishment. But yeah.

Steve Martorano 
Do you agree you need to crack a little more the shell of I don't want to say anonymity, but anonymity is what we're talking about, in order to, for people to appreciate, you know what's available because I looked on your site, and you have wonderful and glowing and the grateful testimonials, but they're generally anonymously given. Does that trouble you at all?

Brad Cole 
I would say a little bit. Yeah, I am. Of course, we respect the confidentiality of everybody. And I do think that normalizing is really important. And you know, those are the people with the biggest platforms that have the biggest megaphones. And if we can normalize it in a way that feels, you know, open and loving and supportive. I think that's where we do need to add, so I would say It troubles me a little bit to know that we're not we're still not talking about it. And like you said that shell is still not quite cracked.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, yep. All right. So I'm a young person, I'm maybe going out with my first band. And I have been sober for 90 days. I'm scared to death about the bus and the different bars. And I come to you and you can tell me where the AA meetings are. I'm walking in somebody how you are a case manager. How's it working?

Brad Cole 
Yeah. So yeah, really our case management service works is we get them on the phone, we do about a 10...15, maybe 20 minutes, brief assessment. You know, we've noticed a lot of folks are first-time therapy goers or they haven't even reached out so we'd like to try to be a gentle landing space for folks as they entered the mental health world. But how it goes is we have an assessment, and we chat with them about what's going on. And then we have a vast network of resources, therapeutic wellness resources, we've support groups, really we tailor whatever their needs are, we tailor what our resources are to create a plan for them.

Steve Martorano 
And you have healthcare professionals on your board your advisory board?

Brad Cole 
So we do have it, we have a clinical advisory board. And then, we also have a practicing mental health clinician on our board of directors as well. So we do have folks with that deeper understanding and the higher-ups.

Steve Martorano 
So I'm guessing that you were, if not the first one of the first organizations to spring up like this. I've seen your numbers they're growing. And by growing I mean, people are availing themselves. So you see yourselves as a resource to clear the path for people who need this help.

Brad Cole 
Yeah, we like to have more of like a resource hub. And we'd like to kind of be that first place that people can land. And we offer like, once we hear from them, we then either provide them with therapists, referrals, and links to support groups that will best fit them, any of our partner organizations, or wellness offerings. Really whatever that is that they're looking for.

Steve Martorano 
So you're located in Oregon where our Backline is headquartered?

Brad Cole 
So we are technically...that is our headquarters, but we are nationwide. So we are...we are...

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. Are there local offices? And is there a Backline in Philadelphia, for instance?

Brad Cole  
Not yet, so we don't have any offices around. But we do have representation on, you know, every area of the United States, I guess not really in the South. But we do have folks in New York City, we have folks in Maryland, and one of my other colleagues is in Colorado, we have folks in California, and then folks in Oregon. So we're kind of spread out all over. And which was kind of because of the COVID pandemic, how we started, as you know, we just were at where we had to be, and we've created that community within.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, one of the questions I was going to ask, but it quickly became obvious, I didn't have to ask it was the pandemic's impact on all of this. I mean, among the things that I guess you had to be attuned to it, or maybe not, but the music stopped. And I know that sounds like a cliche, but it's that's how cliches become cliches. It's true the music stopped from Broadway, all the way down the line there. And it must have been a very, very traumatic event for people in that in that business, and there was nowhere to turn. And I'm sure people self-medicated. And so Backline comes along, right in the nick of time. This is Brad. Thanks so much for joining us. I mentioned whether you have branch offices, I wish you had them all over the place. But it's you know, the wonderful we live in the future. We have the internet, you guys have an absolutely first-rate website. That will answer I think any questions people have, but at least it'll get them in touch with you. What else can people do to support you guys?

Brad Cole 
Yes, I mean, you know, we're always anybody that's able to make any donations. That's really, we're always grateful for anybody that contributes to the cause. Additionally, we are all we are very active on social media. So if you're on Instagram, Facebook, or Twitter, give us a follow. That's where most of our updates and like new programs, new groups, that's where we will kind of present those out to the world. So follow us on social media staying engaged. We often are tabling at concerts or music festivals that we can come and approach to get more information from us and really just spread the word. That's really what we're most in need of is just continuing to spread the word.

Steve Martorano 
Well, we hope we can help that a little bit here on the Corner, Brad Cole from Backline. Thanks so much, man. So it's a great organization. And I hope you thrive and grow and have a real impact in this area. Because as I said, there's a lot of people that keep the music going. And now you're part of that group. Brad Cole, thanks, man. Appreciate it. Appreciate your time too, as well, folks, don't forget, you know, follow us that whole thing. And subscribe. That's important too. Catch you next time on the corner. Bye bye.

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