About PatientPartner

PatientPartner co-founder and CEO, George Kramb, spent years in the operating room alongside doctors ensuring medical devices were utilized properly. He supported hundreds of operations; but it wasn’t until he spoke to a few patients before their procedure that he realized how anxious and fearful they were going into it.

George saw a need for greater support, education and compassion for patients who were going through a stressful medical experience. He saw an opportunity to connect patients with one another through a community of empathy and support. Thus, PatientPartner was born.

Today, our community includes over 100 PatientPartner Mentors who have gone through a medical procedure and are ready to share their experience to help others. We’ve also built a network of over 50 doctors who see the value in connecting relatable patients and are committed to improving their patients’ experience.

Steve Martorano 
The Behavioral Corner is produced in partnership with Retreat Behavioral Health -- where healing happens.

The Behavioral Corner 
Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano, and this is the Behavioral Corner. You're invited to hang with us as we discuss how we live today, the choices we make, what we do, and how they affect our health and well-being. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner. Please hang around for a while.

Steve Martorano 
Hello, everybody, welcome again, it's the Behavioral Corner and it's me, I'm hanging. That's what I do. Steve Martorano with you, in the hope that you're spending some time with us. What we do here the conceit is, this Corner is the intersection of a lot of interesting people with a lot of interesting information we hope all of which has to do with your behavioral health. We call it a podcast about everything. Because as I say, everything affects our behavioral health. Okay, so if you just find us, hi. If you're a longtime listener viewer, don't forget to continue doing that. Okay, well, here's what we're gonna do, we're gonna dive right into the headlines in the healthcare field or medicine field, and take a look at the latest silver bullet that's going to eliminate obesity. In one fell swoop, Americans are nothing if not impatient, we've been looking for this magic bullet. And depending upon what you're reading and what you're hearing, it might be something called Ozempic. And then again, it might not, but we'll find out everything we need to know about that I'm sure with our guest, who joins us from, you know, the closest thing to paradise weather-wise in the world, San Diego, California, George Kramb. George is the co-founder of a patient advocacy group called PatientPartner, and we welcome him to the Corner. George, thanks for joining us.

George Kramb  
Yeah, thanks, Steve. Happy to be here.

Steve Martorano 
So tell me about the company you co-founded. How did that come about? And how does your advocacy take shape?

George Kramb 
Yeah, first off, thanks again, for having me on the podcast, really happy to be here. And, yeah, I mean, Patient Partner is a fascinating founding story simply because it was a combination of my professional life and personal life meeting at one point. And what I mean by that is, you know, prior to starting this business, I was actually a medical device rep for about 10 years. And, you know, for those who don't know what that job is, I basically worked in operating rooms, helping out surgeons, making sure products got implanted correctly.

Steve Martorano 
I knew a young friend several years ago, he's the son of a friend of our family. And he got into that, and I thought, well, that's an interesting line of work. And it wasn't really he had been doing it for a while. Then he told me that, oh, you know, I don't just sell it to the surgeon. I go in there and make sure everything's okay. So that's what you did, right? Yeah.

George Kramb 
Yea, yeah, it was...Steve, it was an awesome career. It really was, you know, every day was different. I really specialized and found my niche and trauma. And so, man, it was a, it was a very adrenaline-pumping role. I get calls at two or three o'clock in the morning, I had to go down to the hospital because somebody got into a motorcycle accident or, you know, a lot of blunt and penetrating trauma, you know, gunshot wounds, stabbing, things like that and yeah, these surgeons I worked with look at me, you know, really rely on me to make sure that one, the products that I have ready are the right products, and then two which products the right product for this patient. So I had to do a little bit of self-diagnosis on each one of these patients, you know, understanding that the condition what else is going on with them from a health background, and then making sure I you know, guide the physician to choosing the right product. And it was a very, very fun career very rewarding. And from that, you end up creating beautiful relationships with the surgeons you work with.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, it's a strange hybrid situation here salesman, basically, you're a salesman, you're selling a product to specialists, who then pass it on to us in the form of these devices. But you also have to know a lot about medicine and as you said, trauma and what's the background, So which came the first year, the course of the car? Were you ready to lean over a surgeon, I mean, you're in the room when they're cutting people up, right?

George Kramb 
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Steve Martorano 
So how's that...how's your salesman in you go, okay, I'm not sales anymore. Now. I'm in the O. R. How'd that happen?

George Kramb 
Well, okay, yeah. How I got into the med device industry -- when I was in college, I caddied at the local country club. And with that, I you know, you got to meet a ton of different people all relatively successful, you know, wasn't a cheap Country Club to be a part of and as I was caddying, you know, you spend four hours or somebody and you get to kind of learn about what they do. And so, you know, caddy for lawyers and doctors and entrepreneurs, and was really fascinated, because there are several med device reps that were members. And you know, I'd see them zoom in on their super cool cars. They'd be running into the locker room and their scrubs. And, you know, I would assume that they're just doctors or something like that. And they're like, I'm not a doctor, I just sell doctor stuff. And I'm like, why are you in scrubs? I just don't get it.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. Right.

George Kramb 
And, Steve, they were like, Well, George, I'm in the operating room helping them. And I was so fascinated by that. I knew I kind of had this desire to go into sales. But I wanted, like, an exciting career. And to me, that seems very exciting. And that's what really kind of led me to go down that pathway. Steve, it's absolutely mind-blowing. I mean, I had no medical background, never went to school for medicine didn't take a single, you know, I wasn't like, you know, health background. Like that...

Steve Martorano 
You didn't...you didn't drop out of med school and pivot to sales? You don't have you have any background. So what prepared you for the first time you were in an operating room?

George Kramb 
Yeah. So these companies that hire you, I mean, they do a pretty good job of trying to train you on the exact procedures that you'll be going into. And so with those training, there are cadavers. And I remember to this day, when I saw my first cadaver, I almost fainted. I had to like, go back and like lean back on the table, because I was like, turning white. But it's just like anything, like, as you start seeing it more and more, you kind of get desensitized by it, as it turns into just a this is every day. And for me, it was more of a puzzle, right? So it's like, I have to, you know, as I evolved in my career, I started to understand like, Okay, this patient came in, that has X, Y, and Z going on outside of this one condition, like, I need to understand the full landscape of this patient's, you know, current situation, in order for me to make a, you know, an educated choice, as far as which products that we're gonna be using.

Steve Martorano 
It's a fascinating skill set. Because as you point out, that initial reaction is incredibly emotional. It's visceral, and I'm sure, first-year med students feel some of that, I would guess, a deadly drawback if emotions overwhelm you, and you're operating on someone's knee or hip or heart. So the doctor says, we expect to have a detached, you know, scientific and emotionless relationship to that kind of situation. I suspect that lots of really good salesman, started out thinking they were going to sell medical devices, and then realize now maybe I'm not ready for that, right?

George Kramb  
They don't have the stomach for it, yeah. No, you're totally right. And it's funny, like, especially with me, I really specialize in a very particular aspect of trauma. And with that, you know, I worked with pretty much all of the physicians in like, the Southern California area. And so, you know, when a physician would go and see if certain case they would call me, and I'd come in and help advise. And, you know, for me, it's like, Oh, I've seen 25 of these cases in the past month, where this doctor might have seen one or two and their whole past year, there are times where, see, I came up, these doctors look at me, and they're like, alright, George, what do I do next?

Steve Martorano 
No kidding.

George Kramb 
Yeah, and so I'm, like, orchestrating within the operating room, but it's still very much a team effort. Like, you know, you have the nurses, techs, the physician, that surgeon...

Steve Martorano 
And you're right in there, you're not looking at some monitor and other room, you're in there masked up and ready to go.

George Kramb 
Yeah, exactly.

Steve Martorano 
Just a few more things about the job? What sort of devices were you repping?

George Kramb 
Yeah, so I started off in orthopedics. I did a lot of sports medicine, think of like ACL, tear their ACL rotator cuff, things like that, and then went into orthopedic recon and trauma, doing more joints. And then on the trauma side, that's really where I got my first experience on the trauma, which, you know, imagine somebody gets into a car accident, they break their femur, right, and so they would come in and I'd have products for that. And then I ended my career in biologics, selling soft tissue for any sort of abdominal like penetrating abdominal wounds. And then I did a lot of burns...a lot of burned care. So you know, large TBSA burns in which, you know, we're trying to re-epithelial eyes skin basically grow skin back or try to build up tissue to skin grafts.

Steve Martorano 
So there are devices that can do all that?

George Kramb 
There sure is. I sold arguably, I think the best device on the planet, I would show photos to people of what this product could do. And it was, you know, I call it the miracle product. These photos almost look like a lake And I have an infomercial where you're like, you know, you see something like, Okay, this is just fake. But it was incredibly powerful. This technology was unlike anything I've seen. And it was incredibly fun to sell. And not only that is incredibly inspiring to see your others change people's lives,

Steve Martorano 
Change people's lives. But we're well past the time when the bionic man or woman was a television show. Now, it's now a practical reality. George Kramb is our guest. It's from that experience of helping doctors, physicians, and patients deal with trauma that would require his products to this advocacy work. Is that what you meant by everything coming together, when you found out the company?

George Kramb 
Kind of so you know, as a rep, like, you have these really intimate relationships with the surgeons you worked with. And truthfully, I took advantage of that, like, anytime I got sick, my kids got sick, we never went to a doctor, I just pulled out my phone called a buddy, and told what's going on and say, Hey, can you send a prescription to CVS. But it wasn't until about seven years ago, that my wife was actually diagnosed with thyroid cancer. And with that, you know, I went back to my typical playbook, like, Hey, call my doctors figure out what type of treatment we should be going down and understanding, you know, the journey. And this was the first time where, you know, my doctors were like, George, I don't really know much about oncology, not sure we can really help you. And so we felt like the everyday patient. And as you're going through this, the oncologist is laying out all the treatment options. There are pros and cons. I actually got called into the clinic one day, because one of our doctors like, Hey, George, this patient wants to know what a knee replacement is. Can you help explain it to him? Like, okay, so I'm walking him through, a patient stops me and goes, you know, George, thank you, Doctor, I'm trying to decide if, if I really want to go through with this procedure, you know, it's a pretty serious procedure, I want to make sure if I do it, it's really gonna give me the life that I want back. And what will be really helpful is do you have a past knee replacement patient that you can connect me with. And I remember sitting in the chair, like, oh, my gosh, this is literally what I need right now. And I left I was in the parking lot of that office, and I called the oncologist and like, Hey, do you have another mom, they can connect my wife with? And, and he did. And Steve, it was life-changing. For us. It really was like, my wife now had this companion who completely understood what it's like to be in her shoes, every step of the process. And it gave me this overwhelming conviction like, this needs to be normalized and healthy.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, right. It's surprising that it wasn't at that point. But with the ability to connect people rapidly now. It's a great idea. So out of that came a PatientPartner advocacy group. And you know what, I'd love to have you back sometime when we can get really deep into what advocacy is all about and how PatientPartner works. But I'm suspecting that it was because of your, you know, role as an advocate for patients, that the topic that we're centrally going to talk about, would rise up to the level of you know, your radar screen because it's almost impossible not to have noticed this drug even if you don't know the name of it, it's Ozempic -- o-z-e-m-p-i-c. I almost certainly guarantee you heard about it, because some Hollywood star just lost 35 pounds with this wonder drug. And I thought, well, you know, Hollywood, they're in a leading edge, they're in the business of looking good. So they're going to be the first people to find the new thing. And while I think it's a joke overall, to expect that you're going to be able to take a pill or a shot and lose weight. I think I think losing weight is a pretty straightforward thing, stop eating and exercise, and you'll lose some weight. Every now and then you know, the magic bullet comes along. And this is certainly that. Turns out, there's more about this drug that we need to know. And that's why George Kramb is with us today to educate us on Ozempic. First of all, it was intended for what...and originally still is?

George Kramb 
Yeah, Ozempic is a semaglutide. Basically, it's today from the FDA, what it's intended for is to treat patients with type two diabetes lowering A1C levels. And it does wonders for that, you know, it's a very convenient drug. I mean, you take a shot. And, you know, you do it on a weekly basis versus being able to constantly monitor your glucose levels and with you know, devices and things like that. This gives a lot of freedom and autonomy back to patients who struggle with type two diabetes. And it just so happened kind of as a side effect, or, you know, a byproduct of this drug is that people lose a lot of weight. You know, it kind of shrinks your desire to eat and your appetite and so people naturally lose a lot of weight and then that happens relatively quickly. Which is great for type two diabetics. I mean, you can go back into a pre-diabetic state, and you know, which is a wonderful thing for patients, but, you know, as this drug started gaining popularity, as you said, though, you know, celebrities in Hollywood and social media, what ended up happening is, is you had a lot of patients -- it's hard to call them patients but you know, you had a lot of people utilizing this simply for weight loss. And, and it does wonders, it really does. I mean, you have a very limited change to your actual lifestyle, and you're able to lose weight relatively quickly.

Steve Martorano 
So we have a drug authorized, tested, and approved...FDA-approved for the treatment of type two diabetes. It has, as you say, a miraculous effect on weight loss, which is not so remarkable when you, as you just said, when you think about handling diabetes, weight loss is a very good thing about that. So it's working the way it should. But it then begins to exhibit other off-label benefits and explain to people who might not know what an off-label use of a drug really means.

George Kramb  
Yeah, so. So keep in mind, you know, physicians are not beheld to what the labeling of a product is. And I experienced this in my med device career, where, you know, there is indications given to each product, or the FDA and companies are required to sell their products in that manner.

Steve Martorano 
But it was we made it for this, this is what we want to sell it that, right?

George Kramb 
Correct. Correct. However, physicians can practice their own well, and what they think is going to be best for their patients. But one of the things that I think is really misunderstood, and not highlighted enough, about Ozempic, is that, yes, you know, it's a great tool to help the type two diabetic, it has a weight loss component to it. But one of the largest side effects that not a lot of people know is that this also has the capability of creating thyroid cancer. And if because what it does is it affects all of your hormones. And with that your thyroid regulates. And so you know, even on the label, and you can go look it up right now, it'll say like, you have to routinely check your throat and you're in your neck area to make sure that you don't have any new lumps or anything like that. And not only that, it also is I'm not sure if it's contraindicated, but if there's certainly a warning on if you have hereditary so meaning your dad, your mom, your cousin, whoever it is, have thyroid cancer, this is a very, very risky, risky drug to take.

Steve Martorano 
It's funny how that wasn't, you know, the headline on the at least on the use of it as a weight loss thing, by the way, that the warning about the potential thyroid cancer problem does that apply to people also...it obviously, applies to some people also taking it just for diabetes type two, right?

George Kramb 
Correct. Yeah, absolutely.

Steve Martorano 
Okay. All right. But so what else do we need to know about this, because the first time I heard about it was not that it was a miracle weight loss drug. First, because of what we do here on the Behavioral Corner. People were saying, not only did I lose my appetite, I didn't feel like smoking anymore. For some strange reason. They just didn't feel the, you know, the urge to smoke, and others said, I don't even want to drink. Well, in the substance abuse field. That's a very significant thing. If there's a drug that coincidentally goes to the part of brain chemistry that controls not addiction so much, but cravings...

George Kramb 
...cravings, desires...

Steve Martorano 
...and desires, and you've got a very significant thing. What do we know about Ozempic? In that do we know enough about that?

George Kramb 
So this is actually kind of an interesting topic. So I don't hear much...as much of that as I do from the weight loss side. But one of the things that I do have a lot of experience in is through PatientPartner, we actually work with a lot of patients for actual bariatric surgery, so weight loss surgery. And one of the largest things that we see within that actual disease status. So for people who had weight loss surgery, there is an addictive behavior within those individuals of wanting to eat or things like that. But when you have weight loss surgery, they literally remove either 70% of your stomach or like 95% of the stomach. So there's like, physically not enough room to continue eating. And so what they do is they channel those addictive tendencies into other areas. Alcoholism is a huge problem for patients after weight loss surgery. And then also, you know, things like gambling things like you know, other addictive types of vices start to surface.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, yeah, that's always been one of the great barriers to effective recovery from any kind of compulsive behavior is that you can block some of these things medicinally. But that gets to the craving part of it is often dealt with, you know, psychologically. And so it gets a little complicated. So this is a fascinating drug. It has...we know that it has clear diabetes, effectiveness, which obviously causes people to lose weight, just remarkable stories of typically, what are people losing and in what span of time?

George Kramb 
Yeah, I mean, there are people losing 20 pounds a month, right? And it's like, over and over and over again. And, obviously, it totally depends on where you're, where your current weight is, and how long you've been taking it to, which is another piece of it as well, with all of this hype. And people use it for strictly weight loss purposes. There's a massive shortage of this drug for people who truly need it to treat their type two diabetes.

Steve Martorano 
So much so that I think doctors are becoming a little more reluctant to just write a prescription. I mean, a doctor doesn't, you know, a doctor can give Ozempic to a patient who's not a diabetic, correct?

George Kramb 
Correct. Yeah, absolutely.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. And it's resulted, as you say, in a, in a shortage for people who, who actually need it. George, what are some of the I mean, there's a whole raft of side effects that go beyond the dramatic one of thyroid cancer danger. What are some of those side effects as well?

George Kramb 
Well, you know, there's a lot of different elements that go into his Ozempic. You know, a lot of them are causing nausea. And, you know, it can create a rather aggressive reaction, you know, a lot of patients experience vomiting, they can have a pretty big impact on your pancreas and your kidneys. And with like, without question, like, the pivot, like if a woman is pregnant, there's a massive concern about one not only, there's a risk with within the baby, but also from a breastfeeding standpoint. So patient...patients who are like, Hey, I just had a baby, I'm trying to lose weight, and they go on as Empik really large effect if especially if they're breastfeeding.

Steve Martorano 
How large is the population of people who are trying this? Is it getting bigger? Or has some information like this slowed down the use of it as a diet drug?

George Kramb 
Now, it's only...it's only getting larger? I mean, there's more. There are more drugs coming out today? I mean, Ozempic, that headline, Wegovy is another drug to very, very similar. Mounjaro is another drug very similar.

Steve Martorano 
Oh, so there's more on the horizon?

George Kramb 
Yeah, yeah. And, and, you know, these drugs by themselves, like for the type two diabetic patient, just incredible breakthroughs in technology, it really is. But you know, with that, it's kind of going back to your statement of like, you know, in America, we're always looking for the fastest, quickest way to get you know, whether it's weight loss, or, you know, whatever the whatever the desired outcome is and, you know, this is a as a avenue to do it. However, the one thing I will say is, you know, there is a regulation in place to try to decrease the improper utilization of these therapies. And it's, it's truly just through insurance coverage. I mean, this is these are expensive drugs.

Steve Martorano 
It's an injectable procedure, right? You get a shot of this stuff.

George Kramb 
It just comes in like, it looks like a pen, and you just do it at home. And yeah, $1,000 a pop.

Steve Martorano 
$1,000?

George Kramb 
With that, if you don't have type two diabetes, your insurance won't cover it, though, it falls into a category of what's called like, not medically necessary.

Steve Martorano 
Right. Like cosmetic surgery.

George Kramb 
Exactly.

Steve Martorano 
It won't cover. How many...one...one dose list, how long? How much weight do you lose from one shot?

George Kramb 
I have to look into Wegovy and Mounjaro. But it's a weekly shot. So once a week, you take a shot when you get a prescription they give you four, you know, four pens within that prescription. So it's a month's supply. And yeah, I mean, so every month you go in and get a refill. But yeah, it's just a one time...once a week.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, it's incredible. No wonder it started in Hollywood. First of all, you know, they're in the beauty business. Second of all. the only persons that can afford that. It's an enormously expensive proposition. So are you an advocate, we'll put aside what you would advocate to patients about this drug. And I'll ask you another question. Maybe have an opinion. Do you think the marketplace will settle this, that if you go in and say I look, I don't have diabetes, but I'm, I'm obese? Look at me. I want to do this. And the doctor says, Well, okay, I can give you that shot. It's not covered by your insurance. Do you think that the marketplace will sort this out or do we need some more regulations here?

George Kramb 
I think it's already been done. So what I mean by that is, a lot of these companies are already trying to expand their indications. And the only way that you do that is you have to do a lot of... a lot of studies that can gather a lot of data and as to be relatively overwhelming for the FDA to grant that indication. And when they do grant that indication, there's a domino effect that happens. One, these companies cannot market it as a weight loss, drug, and then to insurance will cover it. And so the widespread utilization of this in the way it gets significantly bigger is not necessarily through physicians and doctors saying, go do this, because there's going to be a natural roadblock, just because not afford this on a monthly cadence. However, if this gets approved, this will turn into I think, one of the most successful drug segments, like we have ever seen. If you look at just the overall obesity rate in the US, it's only climbing starting at a younger age and being able to have a quick fix. I mean it's hard to say no to that.

Steve Martorano 
It's perfect. I mean, in terms of everything you just described, it is perfect. It's clear...there's a fortune out there. It's what people want, a lot of people need it. They don't want to go to the gym, or maybe they will after they lose 50 pounds. But yes, it was the perfect storm, of course, and I'll let it go at this, we've got to be that description you made of broadening the indications for drugs, was used to devastating effect with oxycontin. When, when the pharmaceutical companies decided to pitch the idea that this drug was not addictive and could be used for a whole host of pain-related problems. The slippery slope got obviously dangerous. And we wound up with an epidemic stakes a little higher. This is a drug that can do a lot of great things for people who are diabetic, it has like all drugs some downside. But it is now getting swept up I think, in the glitz and glamour of show business. And people need folks like George Kramb, to say, yeah, whoa. Is that the advocacy you're you would give to somebody who came to PatientPartner and said, you know, what should I do, I gotta get the bariatric surgery, or do I use this drug,

George Kramb 
There's a lot of stigma with obesity, there really is. And, you know, a lot of it is driven behind the notion of, you know, patients or people just go in, you know, go to the gym, lose weight, be better. And, you know, although that is true for a lot of people, there's also a subset of patients to one you get to a certain size where you truly just can't go to the gym anymore, you know, you have a tough time, even walking to the mailbox, and being able to have a solution that can dramatically start losing that, you know, losing weight for people, for them to start having a more active lifestyle, I think could do a lot of wonders. And you know, the one thing I will say is like, you have to look at what obesity and being overweight, does in the long run if to your health, and you have to have a comparable, right? You're looking at like the largest leading cause of death in the United States. And it's really just, you know, a large piece of that as is because, you know, people are overweight. They don't work out, and they don't have a healthy cardio-aerobic lifestyle. And if this can be a method to get, you know, our, you know, the US population of the world into a healthier state, I think that's a great thing. But I need...I do stress this a lot is being able to have very clear to patients on what this experience would be like if you took Ozempic if you took Wegovy, whatever it is, and have that understanding. And also understand your historical and geological background, and make sure that you're not going to potentially harm yourself in the long run just to lose some weight over the next six months.

Steve Martorano 
Well, that's great advocacy. Thank you, George. George Kramb from PatientPartner talked to us about advocating for patients and making sure they know all that's necessary when they face a medical emergency or questions. People want more information. You've got the website. We'll have a link to that for you guys so people can find out what you're about. Are you all over the place? We're just in Southern California. Where are you guys?

George Kramb 
Yeah, so we're just down in San Diego, California. And this is where our headquarters is. But you know, PatientPartner...we're actually now a global company. I mean, we were out in Australia and New Zealand, Canada, and various parts of Europe. And yeah, if you want to connect with me feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn or send me an email. My email is just George@patientpartner.com

Steve Martorano 
Great. George Kramb. Thanks so much. We appreciate it. Have you back sometime soon, I hope.

George Kramb 
Yeah. Thanks, Steve, talk soon.

Steve Martorano  
Alright George, take care. You guys as well. Don't forget you know, you know the drill. Follow us like we do that whole thing. And look for us. By all means, wherever you get your finer podcasts. Catch you next time on the Behavioral Corner. Bye bye.

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