Ep. 17 - Sara Thomson Interview Transcript

The Behavioral Corner 

Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano. And this is the Behavioral Corner; you're invited to hang with us, as we've discussed the ways we live today, the choices we make, the things we do, and how they affect our health and wellbeing. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner, please hang around a while. 

Steve Martorano 

I can't tell you how much fun it is to "hang: on the corner with you all, particularly as we work our way through September. Even as we speak, you can feel a little bit of autumn in the air. So if you're, you know, in the neighborhood, you see us gabbin, come on by and give a listen. As we work our way through September, which is National Recovery Month. We return now to people that I've spoken to many times over the years as I've done these programs, and that's the Council of Southeast Pennsylvania. And boy when it comes to the entire area of substance abuse treatment and prevention, the folks at the Council are no "Johnny-come-lately" this to this particular area of behavioral health. The Council which is as I said set up for southeastern Pennsylvania is located in Doylestown, PA those of you in this area know all about Doylestown in Bucks County, and they have been at it since 1975. In fact, as I look at their website now, I see the date September 15 is when they formally were incorporated. So this is kind of an anniversary, as we say hello to one of their executives, one of their people. Sara Thomspon joins us from the Council of Southeast Pennsylvania. We're going to find out all about Sara in the work she does. She is a clinical supervisor case management services for the Council of southeastern Pennsylvania. She's hanging with us on the corner. Sara, thanks for joining us. We appreciate it.

Sara Thomson 

Thank you for having me.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, really it is it's kind of an anniversary for you guys, the 15th of September I guess about a week ago. Now, you guys since 1975. Boy, it's amazing because the public as you know -- on a mainstream basis -- really didn't get their heads around the devastation and the size of the substance abuse problem in this country with the opioid epidemic, which you know, is relatively new in terms of consciousness on a broad base. But you guys were, you know, in the trenches a very, very long time ago. Can you tell us just a thumbnail of the council? And its kind of mission? If this is a grassroots organization, right?

Sara Thomson 

Yeah, absolutely. It's a nonprofit. And it's funny that you say that opioid addiction because it's not just opioids, we really touch on we touch on any kind of addiction that you're having. And we're multiple pathways, meaning that it doesn't matter what kind of recovery you believe in, we want to help you and we want to see you succeed in that recovery. So we have different kinds of departments. It was funny, because I was talking to our executive director, and I was like, how many departments do we have? I want to kind of get all the knowledge because I know, you know what I do. I know what, you know, other people at Bristol do and stuff like that. But I wanted to kind of pick her brain real quick. And she's like, you know what, it's kind of funny, because all the departments that we have, are so vast, so let's not even go into that. We have really opened ourselves up to just any all department we can. We have three different huge pillars really. And they kind of go under each of our directors. So we have prevention, education, and training. And what they do is they have student assistance programming. They have the training, stuff like that we are a certified Deedat trainer, we work students this is programming, like I said, within Bucks County. We also do intervention treatment, which that kind of falls under where I'm at with case management. So we're like clinically trained, case managers. We also do interventions, we do treatments. So we have a dry program and we really do it all within like the treatment type outpatient. We also have a new rise program which is in Quakertown, which is one of the first set of lesson programs that the council has in an outpatient setting. We've done other adolescent programming and an outpatient, but this is like our true adolescent. One-Stop-Shop we have CRS is we have counselors. We have everything there. And it's pretty new. So we right now have an open house throughout September on Wednesdays. So we really urge people to come out, check out the new site. It's absolutely gorgeous. Lisa Cornelius is the supervisor there and she and her team have really put together just as amazing treatment center there. Then also we have recovery support services. And proactive is probably what we're most known for because of the proactive recovery walk and also our recovery centers that everyone just knows within our community, I remember for myself first getting clean, going to these places. And literally, they just have everything. As I said, we are just all pathways. So it didn't matter what kind of treatment you ruined and 12 step, church phase, MIT, like, we just wanted to accept you for whatever kind of recovery you're in. And these recovery centers have now just become a kind of like monumental sites, throughout the community. We have them in Philadelphia, Montgomery County, Bristol, and people just really go there to find a home, in their early recovery, and even later recovery. 

Steve Martorano 

You know, what's amazing about the work of the Council and the fact that you've been doing it for so many years now. And that is that in spite of all this, there's still this, I get this sense. And he tells me if I'm wrong, that when the disease of addiction shows up, or substance abuse or any of the issues of behavioral health that you just talked about, no matter what, what help is actually out there, people are stuck, they're stopped. They don't, it's not like you ask a neighbor to recommend, you know, a good plumber. There's still some stigma attached to this. There's some associated shame, and some people just don't know, you know, where to turn is that among the most difficult things about the work of the council is getting the word out that I mean, as you just described, you're a one-stop shopping place for a wide range of stuff. How do you get the message to people that there's an organization like yours available?

Sara Thomson 

So I really think a lot of and I can speak for myself in this situation, it's making ourselves known within the community. I think for a long time, like, when I used to go to community meetings, whether it was you know, up in Doylestown, or up in Quakertown, wherever it was just kind of making ourselves known and saying that, like, we are here to help. And at first people kind of would look at us and say, you know, we're good. But then saying, like, we're here to help, and we're not going anywhere. The disease of addiction and alcoholism and whatever, maybe even tobacco is not going anywhere. So we need to help you. And we need to help your families. So let us help you. And slowly what would happen was, we would help, you know, let's say, Jane Doe, whoever would be. And then Jane Doe's family would tell the next person, their neighbor, and then all of a sudden the neighbor would call us and it like you said, Truly grassroots, because all of a sudden, we were helping the whole neighborhood. And then there's still the next neighborhood over. And it's amazing when you start to see communities utilizing our support, whether it's recovery support services, or SAP, or ICM, or moms or whatever it may be, or just the Recovery Center in general. And really vibing off of what we have to offer and then telling the next person because we can do all the advertising in the world we can spend. I mean, we're nonprofit, so we're not going to spend that much money, but we can spend whatever cost amount, but really, the heart of the council is from one person telling another that like "Hey, this works" And I really think you should try it. I can't tell you how many referrals we got from word of mouth, rather than us just going to tell people about it. 

Steve Martorano 

Do people have to worry about what your services are going to cost them before they call? 

Sara Thomson 

That's the best question ever because realistically, our programming was set up so nobody would ever have to worry about the cost. Like I can speak about ICM, which is case management, ICM, and moms and other funds like that as such as recovery support, we're mostly based off of the Medicaid funding. And also county funders have picked up our funding to so whether it's the commission funding through Bucks County, they have often supported our cause. And the commission is always more than willing to fund many of our participants who do not have a Medicaid sort of funding so we can help anybody. And then there are also people to do have private insurances who we can put on a self-pay scale, and it's virtually little to no cost. Because we really do want to help out within the community. Also, the fact is people who come to our recovery centers, it's no cost to them. It's a walk-in center, there was a guy who used to work at our center and he says, "It's the YMCA for recovery." So just walk on in, there are no membership fees. All you have to do is just sign in, and anyone can come in, it doesn't matter who you are, where you're from, we just want to help you all our funding comes through FCA we are up and running to help you and no membership fees. Like I said.

Steve Martorano 

Well there we get just obliterated another reason for you know, getting help, it's available and there's no price we not want to pay for the kind of support you give and you know getting people into a sober lifestyle. And I know it's a barrier for a lot of people.

Sara Thomson 

Exactly. And I always say to a lot of our participants, I'm going to sign up it's free. And if you don't like it, then cancel your subscription. There you go. It's not like a bad magazine order where you have to jump through hoops. Just tell us you want to cancel And I can honestly tell you that nine times out of 10, nobody ever cancels. They're like, Oh, wait, this is free and someone is here to help me. Or if you walk into the recovery center, you're most likely never to stop coming until you then realize that you want to volunteer or eventually get a job with the council, you know, years down the road. Most of our volunteers eventually become employees. And it's really cool to see a lot of those people become employees down the road, with years and years and recovery and stuff like that. So it's really cool to see people progress in this, you know, lifestyle,

Steve Martorano 

You know, you know, you've just given us an incredibly broad picture of what you guys do in the services that are provided and the people you're trying to reach, all of which have been profoundly impacted like everything else, by the pandemic. So tell us a little bit about what the council has done with regard to pandemic support.

Sara Thomson 

So pandemic supports, as most service providers within our community, we were faced with a very uncomfortable time. It happened very quickly. And then our executive director and all the other directors call together a leadership meeting, and we were all sat in front of zoom, kind of trying to figure out what to do. Once again, like most people within the community, we jumped on zoom. We've jumped on other telehealth resources, phone calls. So we started really utilizing zoom for a while and once there was some sense of okay, masks are okay, hand sanitizers, okay, we really started trying to meet with participants, again, socially distance, but we had to get creative with it. I like I said, I know for case management, what we started doing is we said, "Hey, we'll meet with you.", but you have to do this. So we fill out a budget too, you know, get face mask and face shields for our clients who were a little bit more risk. We started meeting social distance outside. So for the first time, we had to see really quick on our feet, because we realized that we could only use these telehealth and zoom resources for so long, we have a lot of the clients we talked about, we needed to meet with in person, you could only do zoom for so long because a lot of these people were going through crisis situations, we hold a lot of crisis intervention programs within case management. And also within our DIY programming within the rise, you can really keep people captured for so long on these telehealth resources. So we really started utilizing PPE and such resources as 

Steve Martorano 

What is PPE?

Sara Thomson 

Just like the protection equipment. So we started doing that. So holding telehealth meetings with clients who offer that because we want to also respect people's boundaries. And people don't want to meet in person yet. Some people may wake up and they might have a stuffy nose, say, hey, for your sake in mind, I'm not going to meet with you today. But we're really trying to utilize PPEs, we're trying to utilize telehealth when possible because under covenanter was order, we still have to tell work when possible. But for people who do need to be in person, or going out meeting within the community socially distance, and really trying to still deliver services to people as needed.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, you know, the pandemic has overwhelmed everything, it has been the topic of conversation, understandably, since we first realized the gravity of the situation. It's only now that some of the ancillary, you know, tragedies associated with the pandemic have made their way back into the mainstream media One of those things is the increase in relapse and overdose because of the isolation of this disease. You're dealing with loads, I guess, of relapse helping services you guys provide, right?

Sara Thomson 

We're noticing relapse, of course, but everyone who has met me always says Sara sees a glass half full, and I feel like you have to be in my field, or I'll see become super negative, and then leave. So...

Steve Martorano 

I've never heard anybody happier about what they do than you, Sara.

Sara Thomson 

I tried to be because I've been in this field for almost 10 years now. And being a person in recovery, too, you have to look at the positives, or else you'll become super jaded. 

Steve Martorano 

We're gonna get into your story straight ahead 

Sara Thomson 

With people in our support what I've noticed is that, yeah, we had relapsed, but we've also had a lot of success. And I want to put a picture on that like, because we've had people who now are able to make meetings who may have not had transportation, due to the zoom support, I can think of like a couple of clients in general who has contacted us and talk to us during you know, telehealth or even being in person. They said, you know, what I can be at six meetings a week now be if they just hop on zoom, and it's great and I've never had this availability in my life before or, you know, they're able to meet with their counselor at their methadone clinic more frequently because their counselor has more ability due to telehealth. So there are more resources available now, as a silver lining due to this pandemic, even though it's a little bit more uncomfortable because it's via telehealth or via zoom, or whatever it may be, but see the silver lining that these resources are more readily available now. So while there has been that sense of relapse, and people feeling unnerved due to the pandemic, we've also seen some people become really successful because they're able to make for meetings than ever or more support groups, or whatever it is. 

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, one of the reasons that it's that we all benefit from September being designated as National Recovery Month, is that we get to talk about the things you just mentioned. And a couple of items there that are always worth repeating, look, as much help as there is available and as large as the problem is still a very, very small group of people who are suffering from these problems actually get the help. Having said that, having said that, though, one of the things we love to remind people of all year long, but certainly during National Recovery Month, is that millions and I mean, literally millions of people managed to work their way through this disease and wind up in long term, successful recovery. That it's just it's so important to remind people that yes, you just said there are loads of success stories out there. You know, I first I guess became aware of the council through, as you mentioned, Pro-Act. And again, it's not the crown jewel of your yearly work. But it's for years, one of the really big efforts of the council and PRO-ACT. And that was the recovery walk that you guys do every year this time. The most recent one done virtually we'll talk about that in a second. I mean, I've been to a couple of those, they were always wildly successful, there are loads of people there. And all in celebration of long term successful sobriety. So as we mentioned, I guess it was the 12th of September, the walk did occur again. But it like everything else was done online, tell us how that went.

Sara Thomson 

The coolest thing about the recovery walk is it doesn't matter if you have one guy, or if you're still trying to get your life together. Or if you have 50 years, the recovery walk welcomes everyone. And that's what I loved about the recovery walk. And I remember, I had a couple of years in recovery at that point. But I remember going I was with another agency at that point, and just looking around and be like, the most amazing thing. And then the only at that point that I wanted to be part of the council in some way, or some form. So the council at that point became like, my, it sounds so corny, but like a little became a little bit of a dream for me to work for them. And then for like the next couple of years, I found my way into case management, and then I ended up with the council. So it's funny that you say that because I think that's how I found out about Pro-Act and the council because like that's how I found out about it because it's such a mega walk last year prior to who they brought 30,000 people walking for recovery is just absolutely phenomenal. This year was on September 12. Last weekend, and it was so phenomenal. And once again, I say that with the glasses half full-time mentality. But so what we did is we did a virtual walk and we did 1.5 miles, and you do it at your own discretion or at your own pace on that day. Obviously, it's not gonna be at Penn's Landing. There were still representatives from the council, who did the walk down at Penn's Landing. But most people did the walk by themselves at their own house. I did the walk within my neighborhood, and I did with my daughter, and it was absolutely great.

Steve Martorano 

It's a great event. And as I said, I've been down there, I've seen it That's 30,000 people just in southeastern Pennsylvania. These walks go on in September, all over the country. It just it is an amazing thing. And we look forward to the time when you know the virus is not dominating our lives and we can see those people again, in the streets of their towns and cities.

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Steve Martorano 

Sara Thomson is with us. She is a case management services clinical supervisor for the Council of Southeast Pennsylvania. She's hanging with us on the corner, she comes to her work with a dedication to it for sure out of an experience she had struggling with substance abuse. Can you tell us about that, Sara?

Sara Thomson 

So I originally began my journey in recovery in 2008. My recovery date is January 30, 2008. An interesting fact about me is I got cleaning at the age of 16. And whenever I tell people that it's always like an interesting topic, these people look at me, and they're like, how, how bad was it? And I'm like, it was bad enough that I had to get clean at 16. It was one of those things that I really grateful for the desire to stop at that young age. It wasn't easy for me. I had, you know, a bunch of barriers to tell me to stop them away from the treatments, different stipulations. But when I eventually did get clean, I had so many supports. So that's kind of what led me to want to get into this field. As I said, I've been in this field for almost 10 years. So as soon as I could get in this field, I was kind of knocking down the doors, I started in this field as attack and I loved it, I knew that I kind of found my way. And I went through the ways of going through college and, you know, finding my education within this field and just kind of building my way up.

Steve Martorano 

You say at 16, your problem was so severe that you decided to, you know, get on the path to recovery. And so you're sober now, how many years? That's a backdoor way. of asking how old you are.

Sara Thomson 

No, it's fine. This January, it's gonna be 13 years, my lucky number. 

Steve Martorano 

 That's, that's terrific. But let me ask you this question because people might not be able to appreciate it. As at 16. Lots of kids are experimenting, and they're hanging out with maybe the wrong people. And they're all doing the same kind of bad behavior, marijuana and drinking, and maybe even harder stuff. You say it was significant enough at 16. To make you realize it wasn't youthful indiscretion, you had a problem? Did you arrive that that through your own work? Did you have adults saying, Sara, need help." That's a very young age to go, I got to do something.

Sara Thomson 

I had just about everyone telling me to stop at that point. And like I said, it wasn't my first time in treatment, I had been getting treatment probably on and off since I was 14 years old. I mean, I worried everyone at the point of 16. No longer was it about the drugs I was using. I mean, obviously, the drugs I was using were pretty bad. But it was about the place I had gotten to. And I always reflect that back in my story that and this is where I relate to a lot of our client base. And obviously, I'm in the clinical program that I run. Now, when I talk about this, it's the feelings of deprecation and just like feeling isolated and lonely and just hating my life. You're probably the happiest person ever. And I wasn't this happy person. And so this happiness and this pure joy come from the fact that like I get to live today, and I don't feel completely chained down to my life anymore. Like the happiness and freedom I come from comes from like the choice I get to choose every day, like not to use a substance and like not to put myself into this deep dark hole anymore.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, you're you are blessed in that you came to that realization so early on, most people, I would guess, at least those I've spoken to don't get to that point. It's another illustration of you know, the term we often hear is I got to hit rock bottom. And that's true to a certain extent. The problem is people don't understand that the bottom can be anywhere, it can be anywhere at any time. It doesn't have to be when you're, you know, your beat up and in your 30s or 40s. It can be 16.

Sara Thomson 

But I have been using it for a couple of years, right? That was my rock bottom. And it was so funny because I used to get so resentful when people used to say, Oh, you're so lucky. You got it so young. And now I can really appreciate that I'm starting on 30 and I can really, truly appreciate the fact that I'm like, Oh my gosh, like thank God that I did get it young because like now, you know I have this beautiful life. I can be a clinical supervisor of a program that really does change people's lives...

Unknown Speaker 

It works on two levels, you know, you get together at an early age. So you have a much more Longer arc of happiness and sobriety personally, but you also because of the field you chose, had those additional years where you can help other people. So it's so you know, so it's obviously a win-win. So good for you. I would only add, and it's just my way opinion that you know, all you have to do, it seems to me is cheering up a little.

Sara Thomson 

Yeah, I'll try. So, it really truly is a blessing. And like that, that's something like I really tried to implement in my life with like, not just my clients, but my employees and people like I just pass by every day that like, yeah, my bad days. But it's a lot better than like my last day.

Steve Martorano 

There are people out there that haven't gotten to that point where they know where to turn, and they have a problem and they don't know what to do about it. In the area. We're discussing southeastern Pennsylvania, people need to do what to get a hold of the council to get help from them. What should they do?

Sara Thomson 

You can always go online to our website, https://www.councilsepa.org. And you can always email us directly. Or you can just give us a call on our phone, we have a hotline that is available to you, too.

Steve Martorano 

One of the other things we look at in September is suicide prevention. If people are in that dark place as well, like they can also call the council for help.

Sara Thomson 

Absolutely. Obviously, within our services we don't discriminate. We want to help you. And if we can help you, we will help you find someone who can.

Steve Martorano 

Sara, again, you are the happiest person I've spoken to in a couple of days. And the funny thing about talking to happy people is that it makes you feel happy. So we appreciate you spending some time with us on the Behavioral Corner. And as I said, you guys have been a great resource for this program, and others that we've had over the years, so we hope we can call upon you many more times in the future as the work goes on. Thanks, Sara so much.

Sara Thomson 

Absolutely. We'd love that. Thank you so much.

The Behavioral Corner 

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