Steve Martorano 

The Behavioral Corner is produced in partnership withRetreat Behavioral Health -- where healing happens.

The Behavioral Corner 
Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano, and this is the Behavioral Corner. You're invited to hang with us as we discuss how we live today, the choices we make, what we do, and how they affect our health and well-being. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner. Please hang around for a while.

Steve Martorano 
Hi, everybody, welcome again to the Behavioral Corner. The podcast about everything is what I say I'm Steve Martorano, your host and guide. The whole shootin' match is made possible by our great underwriting partners Retreat Behavioral Health, you'll hear more about them specifically a world-class, mental health and substance abuse facility that has been our partner for many years now. They not only provide us with financial support, and utter editorial control, bless their hearts, but they are also our great reservoir of people and experts in the field of substance abuse, treatment, and mental health as well. And case in point is another of their employees, one of their primary addiction therapists and not a newcomer to the program - she has been with us before - Wanda Fink-Barnett is with us wanting to thank you so much for your time. It's good to see you again.

Wanda Barnett 
Hi.

Steve Martorano 
Now, I've asked you the question I've asked a couple of others before. I know this is incredibly vain but why does everybody seem to be rosier and more tan than I am on camera? It drives me insane. Can I ask you a rude question? Okay, your maiden name is Fink and you use the hyphenated Fink-Barnett is that because of your name now?

Wanda Barnett
Yeah, that is because I was looking for some of my biological father's family. And so I put Fink in there so that I could find them. And as soon as I did, I was amazed that I found them.

Steve Martorano 
That's great. I hadn't considered that you would use that to find your roots. But it's interesting. Anyway, Wanda, as I said I was with as many years ago. And she is I said as a primary addiction therapist at Retreat, we're going to talk about what what that means. She's now been at it for over a decade. And we're going to find out how she winds up there. She did not begin as a therapist, but she began as a substance abuse sufferer. So want to take us through that. How did your problems begin?

Wanda Barnett 
It started with my first problem was an eating disorder. At the age of 12, I started I discover, you know, anorexia, bulimia, I was a chubby child, to say the least. And I wanted to be able to fit in with everybody else. And one of my friends had shown me this neat trick where you could lose weight. And, then by the time I was 13, I discovered these nifty little pills. You know, they were called black beauties and Christmas trees and all these other wonderful things. And they helped me lose weight even more. And I was getting away with it fairly well because my father was -- my parents were separated. They were they were divorced at the time. And my mom was busy working the night shift. So I was in school during the day. She was at work at night. By the time she got home. I was in bed. So worked out fairly well, you know, until she walked into the bathroom. One day I was coming out of the shower and she just lost your mind. I didn't know what she was losing her mind about. She took me to a hospital. I weighed 82 pounds.

Steve Martorano 
She was reacting to your body. Yes.

Wanda Barnett 
Yes.

Steve Martorano 
Wow.

Wanda Barnett 
Yeah. So I had spent from the time I was 13 till I was 1512 times in an eating disorder clinic. By the time I was 14 and a half, I already knew what to say to get out like what they wanted to hear. You know, I know what to do. And I would get out and within a matter of two weeks, I was right back to doing what I was doing before. When I was 15 I got pregnant with my first child. So I automatically stopped doing everything. And I was good. So everybody thought everything was golden by this point. And I had him and within four months after he was born, it started again.

Steve Martorano 
You were 15...you were 15 when you had the child?

Wanda Barnett 
Yeah, and then I had another one a year later. And, and as soon as I found out, I was pregnant with her, I had stopped doing everything again. So in my mind, there was no addiction issue because I could put things down.

Steve Martorano 
Right.

Wanda Barnett 
And so it was just this ongoing thing, where if you would have said to me, which people had said to me, you have a problem. Because after that, then I have discovered, you know, because I, after my first three children were born, I was modeling, I was doing a lot of things. And modeling was my big ticket, I was making good money. And, but in the modeling world, you learn all about meth and speed and all that other stuff.

Steve Martorano 
Exactly the sort of thing, someone with your problem shouldn't have been involved in a hyperconsciousness about appearance and certainly weight.

Wanda Barnett 
Absolutely. But it took off from me. And, then I had a very bad experience of sexual assault. And I was hospitalized, and it felt awful. Like I felt broken from head to toe. And so then they prescribed pain pills. Because there was a lot of trauma. So what do you do with that?

Steve Martorano 
Right.

Wanda Barnett 
You discover all kinds of other things. Cocaine came into the mixture, crack cocaine came into the mixture. Heroin. It all came into the mixture.

Steve Martorano 
Right.

Wanda Barnett 
And so no matter how many times people said, you have a problem, no, I don't. I had stolen like I had one point I got married to my husband, the poor man didn't know a thing. Because like most heroin addicts, they fall asleep. You know, not me, I was scrubbing while I was doing this doing that, you know, crack cocaine, I think was the counterbalance in there for that. So he didn't have a clue. until like, money started disappearing in massive amounts. You know, but he didn't say anything, because I think he knew that like no matter what he said, it wasn't going to do anything.

Steve Martorano 
Now, how old were you during this period of time?

Wanda Barnett 
At that point, I was like, 24.

Steve Martorano 
For you, we're considering the eating disorder, which begins at 12 to 10 years of really, on the road to substance abuse problems. Yeah. Okay, so how did you get to your first substance abuse treatment?

Wanda Barnett 
I went one time for substance abuse. I was in and out of an eating disorder. But I went to treatment one time for substance abuse.

Steve Martorano 
And it didn't work as they say it was it the turning point for you.

Wanda Barnett 
It was and that was because I had overdosed. And I was on life support. And that was in 1993, the end of 1993. And when I came to all my kids at this point, I had four children. And they were all on the other side of the ICU window. And there was a priest there. Did the last rites. And I had said, "Oh my gosh, I'll never do that again. Never do" What do you think I did when I got out of that hospital?

Steve Martorano 
You got high.

Wanda Barnett 
Absolutely. And I called my mother and I was like, You got to come and get me. I said, because this time I'm going to die for real. And then I hung up the phone. Like getting my daughter where it was, how she found me to this day, like the day she died. I used to say to her, "How did you ever find me?" and she would just say "None of your business. None of your business."

Steve Martorano 
It's an amazing insight. Here's someone you know, on death's door, and you are aware of that. And you reach out and desperation because you know, you're going to die. And your mom responds, and then imperfectly in keeping with the confusion associated with substance abuse. You hang up without telling her where you are. That's just, that's just amazing. And she found her you.

Wanda Barnett 
She did find me. And she made all the arrangements. She took me to treatment that my mother was in and out of alcoholism until like, I don't even know how long and she had stopped drinking years before that. And she had struggled with cocaine use for years as well. Well, so I think she knew exactly where what I was feeling at the time. You know, my father was an alcoholic, the same as you know, many of his family. So like it was just oozing everywhere in my family.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, you just got dealt a rough hand. In terms of in terms of your background, and your I guess, you know, we know there's a component there. But yeah, so it shouldn't be very surprising. You say, so you're only 12 times in and out of eating disorder facilities, but only once in substance abuse. What type of treatment did you receive during that period?

Wanda Barnett 
I was 66 days inpatient. And then what I thought I was going home, didn't happen that way. My family said you can't come home. And I was like, yes, my house too.

Steve Martorano 
Right.

Wanda Barnett 
Until my son, who at the time was 15 said, I don't want you to come home. And when your kid looks at you and says, I don't want you to come home, that makes a huge difference. You know? And so I was like, I'm not going home, where am I going? And so they were like, looking at all these other places. And I said to my mom, I said, you can send me to Alaska, I'll find an Eskimo to sell me dope if I want to, you know, so they found this godforsaken Amish farm in the middle of a town called Gap. And so that's where I went, I went there for the next 10 months.

Steve Martorano 
That was like a half year, of transitional living?

Wanda Barnett 
And that's where I went. And I didn't know that's where I was going. Mind you. Okay, I thought it was just going to a farm. They took five women a year. I didn't know what was an Amish farm. So I got there. And I should have known something was up when my mom dropped me and left. Right.?

Steve Martorano 
Right. Right. People start showing up in buggies. Right?

Wanda Barnett 
Well, the first you know, she came back, the woman came out and her name was Esther and she had on this, this and I went oh, oh, you know? And I thought to myself, Oh, I gotta call somebody to leave. Well, they don't have phones.

Steve Martorano 
Perfect. It's perfect.

Wanda Barnett 
Yeah, absolutely. You know, so. But the best part about all of that was is that six months in, I was told, you know, by my family that I could come home, and somewhere out of my mouth came? I'm not ready to do that just yet.

Steve Martorano 
Really? Hmm.

Wanda Barnett 
You know, and as soon as I said it, I thought why don't I just say that I could go home? Yeah.

Steve Martorano 
Six months in there. And you said what you said 66 days in inpatient inpatient. So you that's a long haul, and you're ready to come home? What? At what point did you go? Okay. I mean, some, I guess some of its fear it go home, and I can mess up again, let me stay here. I'm safe. At what point did you and how did you summon the courage to say I'm ready to go home?

Wanda Barnett 
I was there for almost 10 months. So I was gone for almost a year. And I felt like it either now, you know, like, I can't stay here forever. And

Steve Martorano 
During that period of time, Wanda, during that period of time. Were you able to see your children? They would? Yeah.

Wanda Barnett 
I did have weekend visits. I think my biggest fear was because of where I've lived. I lived in the city of Redding, PA. And where I lived was not a good area. Yeah. You know. So that was my biggest fear, I believe, you know. So I just kind of like when I go for the weekend is it I realized, like, in the beginning, it was really fearful for me, because there were drugs everywhere. And then my husband, God, God love him was like, "Don't worry, I'm working on getting us out of here." And he really did. He had gotten us out. It was only when I got home. We were only there for about three months before he moved us completely out of the city. You know? So, no matter where you are, you're going to find it. Like I said early in the stage I could have gone to Alaska and done that if I wanted to, you know what I mean?

Steve Martorano 
Sure.

Wanda Barnett 
So no matter where you're at, it's there. I think it's what we do. And I was really strong in NA, like that. That I think was my saving grace is because I was there every single day.

Steve Martorano 
After you left the Amish.

Wanda Barnett 
Even there...even there I was going every day.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. For people who don't know NA is the substance abuse Modelled on the 12-Step Program.

Wanda Barnett 
Yeah, Narcotics Anonymous,

Steve Martorano 
You have no doubt in your mind that the 12 steps are the difference for you was that?

Wanda Barnett 
Yes.

Steve Martorano  
Yeah. Yeah, we've done several...we've done several programs on the, on the 12 steps from an outsider perspective. There's a lot of misunderstandings about all that. But it is a miracle. I always tell people when they ask if AA, and that stuff really works, and my answer is simple yet works for people that it works for. For sure. You still, do you still refer back to the 12 Steps -- even today?

Wanda Barnett 
Yeah. Yeah.

Steve Martorano 
Were you a religious person? At this point in time?

Wanda Barnett 
Not when I started. No.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. How did you overcome it? What many people tell me? Is the problem with a greater higher power, greater power? Or God? How did you -- how did you move past that?

Wanda Barnett 
Actually, I think it came with first finding some kind of inner peace for myself. And that came with just, I would take time to just sit by myself and breathe?

Steve Martorano 
Is it safe to say that it's possible, you sound like you're saying it's possible to you don't have to confront this notion that maybe this is about God, you can move, you can move beyond that, and start to work on yourself without either denying the existence of God or embracing the notion of God?

Wanda Barnett 
Absolutely. Yeah, that's my belief system.

Steve Martorano  
I agree with you. Because you can put any other fancy any other euphemism in there for God's greater power and everything, it still stops some people in their tracks. And it's instructive to point out in situations like yours, and many others, that you can move past that, and still get great value out of the 12 steps. So, okay, it's, it's remarkable given how difficult a path you were on the number of substances you were addicted to that near-death experiences, that one trip extended, though, it may have been into a rehab facility, and then the care of these Amish people, you still manage to do something, some people take a very long time to get to where you got and about in about a year. What happens to you now? Okay, you're, you're in early recovery. And you gotta, you gotta look at the rest of your life. When does it occur to you that there's a career for you and helping others?

Wanda Barnett 
I think it was more. I had the best sponsor, she, like, literally, only passed away... So I utilized a temporary sponsor while I was away. And then I got home. And I looked around, and I looked around, and I found my sponsor, and she was my sponsor for 26 years. And she was a blessing. She just passed away not too long ago. But she was a blessing. And she, you could throw anything at this woman, and she would just smile. You know? And so for her, like, she used to say to me, you could do anything you want to do, she said, But let me just tell you, you're really good with people. And so like, when I first started school, when I first started college, I had no idea what I was going to do. I used to say, I have no idea what I want to do when I grow up. There I am a full-blown adult, you know, I mean, I have no idea what I want to do when I grow up. So I started taking the core classes in college. And I thought I was gonna be this is great. I'm gonna be a probation officer. I started in criminal justice. And so just as I was about to finish, I had gotten hired. At this one place where I was just like a tech at a halfway house, you know, where people are coming out of prison. And tough job. It was really tough that was in the heart of the city. Third shift. And then I got hired at a wonderful place. It was a program for it was an alternative to the prison program. So that if people messed up on probation, they had an option to either go to this program, or they could max out a one-year jail sentence. So this is where I went. So while I was working there, the director said to me, you're in the wrong field. And I said, Excuse me. He said, You're in the wrong field. He said you really really, really, really need to be a therapist. He said, You're wonderful. He said You need to go and talk to your academic advisor tomorrow. And I looked up to him, I thought he was wonderful. And so I did, I went and talked to my academic advisor and told her I wanted to switch my major, I wanted to go into clinical psychology, and it just went from there. The minute I did that, the program I was working for was all men at the time, but they had a whole unit that was closed off, and they were doing nothing with it. And I said to him, we should do something with this. And he said to me, he said, Well, what do you think we should do? And I said, there's there's no programs for women who violate their probation. And he said to me, Well, I'll tell you what, you go come up with a curriculum and a program and bring it back. So I spent three months doing this, and I brought it back. And three weeks later, they approved it, they opened up a program for women.

Steve Martorano 
Fantastic.

Wanda Barnett 
Yeah.

Steve Martorano 
And the whole and then you're slowly moving through your educational process to become accredited a as a therapist. And then 10 years ago, you wound up at Retreat Behavioral Health?

Wanda Barnett 
I did. Yeah. I was a supervisor in mental health right before I came here. And I was working really long hours. And even on vacations, I was taking my laptop with me another cell phone with me, and a pager with me. And I know somebody who worked here. And they texted me and they said, you know, hey, you should check this place out. So I came up here. And I was working as a clinical specialist on weekends. And my family was like, you come home from that place up there, and you're so happy. And then you go back to your other job? And you're kind of miserable. And so then they had a full-time opening here. So I talked to my family, and they were like, go for it. The rest is history. I've been here ever since. And I love every day that I'm here.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, 11 years. Well, you're working with great people, because they care about what they're doing. So it was clear not to hear your story. And certainly, but from the people you came in contact with, while you made your way to your current position they recognize that you were, if not drawn to people in crisis. On some level, it seems like you were uniquely situated to be able to get there at a critical time. Kick. What sort of people do you see now? I mean, do you see...well, you're still seeing only women in your...

Wanda Barnett 
I work with women, men, trama, and vets. I work with a pretty diverse population right now.

Steve Martorano 
In and so for people who might not know how this works these are inpatient clients for you? Are these group sessions that you conduct? Are they on one session? What's going on? Well, yes. What's What's the benefit of a group therapeutic session as opposed to one on one?

Wanda Barnett 
I think that the benefit of that is, is that they learn how to trust each other. They also learn how to build support, you know, because most of the time they come in here, they don't trust anybody. So you have that small group setting. Every morning, we have it for two hours. And so they're building that rapport with one another. And they learned to accept feedback, get feedback, reach out if they need it, you know, and what they're doing is is, and it's great to see because I get to watch them grow every day. You know, and so as I'm watching them come in here, isolated and alone. Every day, I watch them grow a little bit more to where they're actually joking with each other. And then they're serious with each other at times, and they're also sharing their most vulnerable moments with each other.

Steve Martorano 
That process is amazing to watch. So many people in that situation I've done, as you can imagine hundreds of interviews. Now, there's a common theme that runs through these things. First and thick and foremost, people are surprised that there are others who know what they're going through. Why is it surprising? I mean, when you were getting high, you were getting high with other people who were getting high, you knew and you knew people that were perhaps as messed up on drugs and alcohol as you were and yet there's an isolation that stops, it stops you from believing others are doing this. So now you're in a group session where you see, oh, I'm not, I'm not the only one with this problem, right?

Wanda Barnett 
I know. And it just baffles you to think like, you know, when you're out there doing what you're doing, and you're like, there's nobody else that has this problem. But you know, there are because you sat with them while you were doing what you were doing.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. Substance abuse works on so many insidious levels. And that, you know, you mentioned that tells you you're not sick, constantly tells you you're not sick. And it also tells you, you're the only person who understands what's going on. The rest of these people are crazy. Did you? Did you see, I've heard therapists tell me this before, that they begin to see in their clients and their patients, the shift to transfer from being thought of as just a list of their symptoms. You're an addict, you do this, you do this to become people with a problem.

Wanda Barnett 
Yes.

Steve Martorano 
Can you talk a little bit about what that was? Like, when you see somebody or it happened to you where you go, Oh, I, I'm sick. I've got I'm not I'm not just a substance abuser. I'm a person. Can you talk a little about that?

Wanda Barnett 
Yeah, So I and I, sometimes I have to say, like, I have to kind of direct them to death because they'll come in. You know, I know. Like, for me, I to me, I was just a junkie. You know, and I watch people come in with that same mindset. And so like, I have to, you know, I have to say, you know, that we're allowing that to define us as a human being. And it's really not that, you know, it's part of like, what's wrong with us, but it's not who we are. Yeah. You know. And so when you actually see them actually accept that, you can see a whole difference, because what happens now is now they bounce into your office, and they're like, they're ready. They're ready to...

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, I mean, yeah, if you define yourself by your worst traits, and there's not much incentive to do anything better, but if you define yourself by being a whole human being, you just have to work through the problems. Does that process hold true for people who have mental health disorders? Without substance abuse issues? Is that the same phenomenon? Yeah. It's very important, to acknowledge that. You know, finally, with regard to your career, you post pretty actively on Facebook, I've read your stuff recently. It's terrific stuff. Do you do your garden variety Facebook posts? But a lot of it has to do with what you do, you have a very long post here, that I guess is a couple of days old now, where you did something I haven't seen a therapist do very frequently, where you talk about or you post about the difficulties associated with the people in your life, having to deal with you. Now as a therapist, a healer. Talk a little bit about how families can deal because both things are very similar, right? They had difficulty dealing with you when you were using and now you're helping people but they're also having difficulties.

Wanda Barnett 
Sometimes they you know, and I post that because, you know, sometimes I think they forget, like, you know, you come home and you're tired, and it's not that you're, you know, what, sometimes were hard to deal with, and I get that, you know, but I think sometimes they forget that, you know, okay, so we didn't do the dishes tonight, or we didn't do this, but it's because, you know, we don't work just like I know, our hours might seem like they're eight to 4:30. But the reality is, are they're not it's like a 24/7 You know because I can't speak for everybody, but I speak for myself, and I know a lot of my colleagues as well, here on The Hill. When we leave here, we're not leaving everybody behind. You know, we're like, you know, because we know that there's a lot of people that are struggling, and then we're like, Well, okay, did that happen? Are they okay? Is this going on with this taken care of? And so like we take that with...

Steve Martorano 
I noticed that in another one of your posts, you remind people that you would rather hear from them if they're in crisis at four o'clock in the morning, so don't worry about what time it is, which is very interesting. Just this last point on your job, your career, your work, and how you sustain you worry about burnout. I mean, you are carrying a lot of stuff that other people need to present to you. It's not great and a lot of it's troubling. What do you how do you keep from burning out on all that?

Wanda Barnett 
So, first of all, I have the most wonderful daughter on the planet. I have some great-grandchildren, and my grandchildren are amazing. And I spend time with them every single day, every single day. And they're like the light of my life. So I always find time to spend with them, and they keep me grounded. I have a best friend we've been friends for, for, oh Lord, 46 years. We've been friends for 46 years. And so like we get together twice a week, faithfully, no matter what. You know. And, like I practice mindfulness, I practice meditation. And I try to eat as healthy as possible. You know. But I also I and I, the old saying is, is every therapist has a therapist.

Steve Martorano 
There are people you could talk to as well. And so what's your what's your sobriety anniversary date? When is it?

Wanda Barnett 
January 10.

Steve Martorano  
January 10? It's my birthday. Congratulations. Yeah, right. And how long will it be all together now this January?

Wanda Barnett 
30 years.

Steve Martorano 
Pardon me.

Wanda Barnett 
30 years.

Steve Martorano 
30 years sober. Remarkable. See? Remar. It's you got to remind people, everybody knows the horrors of these these conditions. And they are horrible. But millions of people get sober. Millions.

Wanda Barnett 
Yes.

Steve Martorano 
Can we finally do this because it's weird? As we approach the holiday season, nothing sets my teeth on edge quicker than the commercial that has that song in it. It's the most wonderful time of the year makes me crazy. Because as we know, it may be the most wonderful time of the year. But it's also fraught with all kinds of stresses. In normal circumstances, it's tough getting together, buying gifts, all that pressure, and all that stuff. We talk about this every year at this time of the year home for the holidays, for people in early recovery, or people even inactive use. Can you give us a couple of coping skills to get through Thanksgiving and the holidays?

Wanda Barnett 
So, you know, early recovery, first of all, you know, I don't think that everybody needs to have alcohol at a holiday dinner but that's just me. You know, go slow, don't you don't listen, you don't have to stay there for seven hours. You know, go ahead, have your dinner, give everybody their hugs. Make your exit. Go home watch a movie cuddle up on the couch.

Steve Martorano 
You know, you hit the one that always comes up and that is get ready to go. Have a good time. Have an escape plan.

Wanda Barnett 
Yes, I've escaped escape plan.

Steve Martorano 
I can appreciate that. It's just great. It's just great advice to get through this difficult time of the year. Wanda Fink-Barnett our guest's primary addiction therapist at Retreat Behavioral Health. Her road was not an easy one. She is now 30 years sober, as you just heard on January 10. And we congratulate her thanks for your time, Wanda. It's been a while since we spoke. So it's good to reconnect.

Wanda Barnett  
Thank you, Steve.

Steve Martorano 
Take care. And you all as well. We'll see you next time on the Corner. Don't forget to like us, and subscribe to us. You'll find us wherever you find podcasts lying around. And we hope you like what you hear about the Behavioral Corner. We'll see you next time. Bye bye.

Retreat Behavioral Health 
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