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Ep. 189 Dave Bailey Podcast Transcript

Steve Martorano
The Behavioral Corner is produced in partnership withRetreat Behavioral Health -- where healing happens.

The Behavioral Corner
Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano, and this is the Behavioral Corner. You're invited to hang with us as we discuss how we live today, the choices we make, what we do, and how they affect our health and well-being. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner. Please hang around for a while.

Steve Martorano
Good morning, and welcome. Good morning, because that's the time of the day I'm recording this, but how are you doing? Steve Martorano, your host on The Behavioral Corner. As we launch into, I guess, this will be the beginning of our fifth year on the Corner. And we call this a podcast about everything. Because after all, everything is what affects our behavioral health. So made possible by our great underwriting partners Retreat Behavioral Health, you'll hear more about them later on. You know, to get started on this. In a nutshell, we're taking a look at something that...obviously a person, my age, and others, my age, and their children are going to be facing in greater numbers every day. And that's where mom and dad gonna live, what's best for them going forward, as their situation changes, whatever that situation may be. And so to that end, we were lucky enough to find ourselves, a gentleman who has spent a couple of decades now dealing with just these issues and helping people make the proper decisions. And it's a big one about Senior Living. To that end, we welcome to the Behavioral Corner, Dave Bailey. Dave is the senior sales director of an organization in a company called Brightview Senior Living. It's one of the nation's largest Senior Living, community facilitators and we appreciate his his time and expertise. Dave, Happy New Year. And thanks for joining us.

Dave Bailey
Thanks, Steve. Happy New Year to you as well, I'm honored to be your first guest of the year. Hopefully today, we can dig a little bit deeper into my past, and my experience to share with everyone who's watching what Senior Living is, how we get into it, we grow into it, actually, and then how to navigate it,

Steve Martorano
That's perfect. And we should say at the beginning, that when we tackle large topics, and certainly senior living, and all that that encompasses is a big topic, we will try to give you a strong framework, but there are a lot of questions that you're going to have to pursue diligently if you want to make the right choice. Dave, one of the things I want you to tell us about your background to begin with, but I want to start this by saying one of the things I generally do before an interview is I'll use the "University of Wikipedia" and Google and I'll ask it questions. I'll go, Well, what are some questions when choosing a senior living facility? And what I was struck by was on the front page of Google, when that query was asked, they would begin with five questions you need to answer. And then there would be 10 questions, and then it's 125 questions you have to answer and I'm going "Oh, I see. There are a lot of questions here." So we're going to try to give people the broadest but most definitive view we can about that. Tell us about your background in this. How did you come to do this?

Dave Bailey
I'm gonna go back to when I was a child. Three years old living across the street from me was my Nana Graziano. No real blood relation. But our families grew up together, intertwined into who was the best man whose wedding and at a very early age, I used to run over across the street, Nana would read me the Blondie comics on Sunday. And by the time. I'm four years old, I'm able to kind of follow along the story with her as she's reading. And I'm not quite sure she's saying the right words. By the time I was five, I realized that she was telling a completely different story. And by the time I'm six, she's just speaking back in Italian. At the age of seven, she called me Leonard, her son's name who was 40 years old. We called the senility at the time. It is classic Alzheimer's, somebody's regressing in their...their own behaviors. And that kind of made me think all of our family, we're going to accept this as who Nana is. And we're going to laugh through every day. And she certainly did some funny things and we were able to, to laugh at them. But that was a very early seed that was planted in me. At the age of 10 years old. We take a trip down to Florida, to see my Aunt Josie and Uncle Joe, my great aunt and uncle, who were living in a Retirement Village. Steve, I have to tell you, I could not wait to be in my 60s and retire because this was the life. Square dancing one-night shuffleboard the next night cards the next night bingo. It was as a young person being involved with all of these old people and being fond on them. It was terrific. My career then led me through many different opportunities in sales and six of my clients were assisted living communities. And at about the same time that I was managing these six clients, right around the corner from my house to ladies, you still walk by, and I used to let my dogs right out the front door, and they would run and kiss these ladies and, and they were very kind. And Ada said, "Dave, can you never bring your dogs to our community." And I said, "Ada I don't even know where you live." She said, "I'm in a senior living community about two blocks from here." And it was the Samuel Miller Home at Mount Holly, New Jersey, it was assisted living. Before I knew that you should actually have certified pet therapy animals, I just put the leashes on the four dogs, and walked them down there, when I got there to their community room, I took the leashes off and let the dogs run. When my clients found out that I was volunteering, they said it's time for you to make that crossover and come inside and work with us.

Steve Martorano
Oh, so you sort of drifted into this out of a natural inclination and interest. That's fascinating. One of the...one of the things that is clear, when when you the more you look at choosing a senior living facility is like so many other things. One size certainly does not fit all. We use that term, kind of casually Oh, senior living or or retirement facility. And it's it's it's much more complicated but diverse. A situation than you might imagine. Talk to us a little bit about when you're looking for a facility, and the options that are available for a family.

Dave Bailey
So Steve, if you look at this very positively, and at the time that you're buying your first house, if you can project out in your life, that at 90 years old, I'm still going to be very active and living in my own home, there might be a few things that you look for: A flat driveway instead of a sloped driveway so that when you open car doors, they don't fall back on you. When I go into that house, it would be great if it was a ranch or so I never have to climb stairs. If you think positively, you'll think of all those things. But of course, we think about raising a family when we first buy, that home and how we're going to grow our lives. And those things don't really come into play. So at the age of 65, and you might be having some physical challenges, we're really at the least the family that you raised your home in, has gone in many different directions. And what you once thought was going to be the hub of the family. Well, the grandkids would come back there in five different states. So why am I paying for our five-bedroom home when there's no one there to fill it? So the first option really is to take a look at a 55 Plus community. And the 55 Plus community is the first step really into senior living. Many communities across the country offer great tax advantages when you move into a 55-plus community. You have instant neighbors across the street and right next door to you who probably are in the same boat that you are in -- empty nesters now looking to simplify their lives. Many of these in our homes are just on one level. And those people who've made that move the appropriate move at the right time to move to those adult communities are the perfect people who then choose to make the next step into what we call Senior Living, which would be independent living, assisted living, dementia care, and enhanced care. The difference between a 55 and over community and independent living is with independent living typically you're giving up the snow shoveling you're giving up the cutting of the grass, and you're giving up any maintenance in the home. If you're in an independent living community and you have a problem with your dishwasher, you call the maintenance team and they come to fix it for you. So typically a one-price type of monthly rent or sometimes it's a buy-in community. But you have all of those maintenance issues of running a home taken care of for you, you also have at least one meal a day provided for you, sometimes two, sometimes three. And you also typically have a check-in point. So in the community, there might be 160 apartments. But every morning by 10 o'clock, you have to press a button or make a phone call to the concierge, the front desk, or the security team, to let them know that you're up and you're ready to start your day. And if they don't receive that call, they'll call you. And if there's no answer, they'll come and knock on your door. And if you haven't told them that you've left the community to shake a finger at you, but if they find you on the floor, they'll call 911.

Steve Martorano
Well, you know what I'm struck by? I'm struck by the different levels there, I'm struck by the number of 55. I think that's when AARP began sending me their letters. And I think I'm typical of most guys at 55. The AARP letter would go directly from the mailbox into the wastepaper basket. At 55 what are you talking about? What percentage of people who begin looking for senior living are actually that young? I mean, it is, relatively young...are they the bulk of people looking for senior living? Or is it an older demographic?

Dave Bailey
So when you're looking at a 55-plus community, typically, it's people who have retired usually between 55 and 65, who start looking and realize that the neighborhood has changed around them. And it's time for me to find people that I have something in common with. But when we really look at independent living and assisted living, we're looking at an age typically, that is I say, around 75. But it really doesn't make a difference. what age you are, it's really what your capabilities are. And has this become so overwhelming for me? And might forget where I put my car keys day after day, do I pick up the TV remote thinking that it's the telephone, looking at things in my life and how I'm able to manage them, it might be nice to have somebody looking over my shoulder. Doesn't matter if I'm 62 or 92. If I need that help that assistance, that guidance throughout the day, hopefully, I have somebody in my family who loves me enough to say, hey, it's time to make a change.

Steve Martorano
Let's take a look at this. Yeah, Dave Bailey is our guest. Dave is a senior sales director at Brightview Senior Living, he's holding our hand through this difficult and complicated decision-making process about you know, Senior Living, when to make the decisions, and where to choose a place that fits. So that brings you brought us into the different behaviors that have to be dealt with. It's not just do we like the decor. Or is the driveway flat? Or, you know, Is it convenient that we liked the neighbors? It's all of that for sure. But there are other factors that bear more heavily on this. And you mentioned it to me earlier, when we were speaking and you called these are the behaviors that are associated You've mentioned, a couple of forgetfulness, and that thing. What are some of the other behaviors that would impact this decision?

Dave Bailey
So Steve, imagine that you are now 87 years old, and your children have been calling you. And you're talking about the other man that lives in the house, and how he makes so much noise. And sometimes he brings children into the next room. And the isolation that you have faced, for the past 15 years, you have become a hoarder. And those four walls start talking to you. And this can simply be managed with medication, but you don't go to the doctor. And now your family is concerned. Typically they come and see someone and now they have a crisis on their hands. And they realize that you know, we knew dad was a little forgetful. We knew Dad was, you know, a little off. But now we have to deal with a situation. And many times even a spouse will make excuses and hide the behaviors of their loved one. As these changes start to occur. Many of these are a metabolic change that happens within the body that cause these behaviors that happen. Could be somebody who has been bipolar and never diagnosed. And now these psychoses start to grow from the solitude. So now we're taking this person and trying to move them into an assisted living community where they're going to have somebody monitor their medications. But we haven't really addressed the behaviors yet. Now we have to see, does this person fit into a community? What do we have to seek medical attention to really figure out what the best regimen of meds is going to be for them so they can live cohesively with other people?

Steve Martorano
Yeah...I'm sorry, go ahead. 

Dave Bailey
No one, as you know, trying to find a psychologist or a psychiatrist trying to get somebody to address these issues. You'll have an appointment four months from now. And that's going to be a five-minute telehealth appointment. And what that person can tell about you in five minutes, over a Zoom call, good luck of trying to figure out a problem. And now somebody can be misdiagnosed. Medications or now being prescribed. And it really comes back to your general practitioner, your doctor to take a look at the meds that have been prescribed for you, because there could have been old medications from another doctor period.

Steve Martorano
Some of the behaviors are also exacerbated because of the medications you're taking, which have to be changed from time to time, it's on that issue of level of care that I have some specific questions. Should people looking for a senior living facility have the kinds of either cognitive or physical problems that you're talking about? Should they ask about specifically, what level of medical care a facility provides, for instance, typically do senior care facilities dispense medicine?

Dave Bailey
Yes, great question. So when you think of assisted living, and I'm gonna go back 30 years ago, when assisted living kind of first broke through here in the United States. This was really a time when people needed help and you would see commercials, where Aunt Sally just needed help putting her sweater on because there was a physical challenge she hadn't she would have somebody help her button or sweater because of arthritis or her fingers were stiff. That's the pretty way of looking at assisted living. Assisted living and dementia Care are the areas where people are going to get that physical help in independent living, not so much you just have helped with the facility that you live in, the property that you live in. But assisted living is where you're going to have help with your, what we call your ADLs your activities of daily living: bathing, dressing, grooming, food preparation, and medication management. In the state of New Jersey, all assisted living have to be licensed to administer medications. In New Jersey, you also have to have a nurse or a certified medication administrator, passing those meds to someone staying with them until they take those medications and then checking off whether electronically or by hand and a log that that person has been giving those medications. The medications also have to be listed by the doctor who prescribed them the date and time they are to be given and the dosage. Yes, medications are administered.

Steve Martorano
Is there a distinction made in senior living between dementia and memory support? Do they overlap or are they distinct situations?

Dave Bailey
So they do overlap. And when we talk about dementia, dementia is the big umbrella for the changes in cognitive behavior, typically a decline you have Alzheimer's you have Pick's disease, there are many, many other types of dementia, either brought on by a vascular episode, or it could be Parkinson's. Most of those, lead to memory loss but when you talk about dementia and memory care, most companies most facilities will treat those the same. And it's a very fine line. Some people with dementia have hallucinations but have no challenges with their memory. They have challenges with logical thinking. But again, the memory is great. Typically in in most communities, they are handled in the same neighborhood. And it's a neighborhood that is typically separate from your general assisted living because we're addressing needs in a very different way.

Steve Martorano
I can see that there are so many things of a medical nature that you need to come to the facilities you're looking at armed with that information, so you don't make any mistakes. There are some other sorts of, I would call them mundane, but they certainly aren't considerations. One is, I would guess, lots of people immediately want to know what the food's like.

Dave Bailey
Yes.

Steve Martorano
You know this, well, from decades in the business, you could have the greatest facility in the world if folks don't like your food, they're not coming. It's just as simple as that. You're done.

Dave Bailey
You're never gonna win with the Italian grandma who used to make her own sauce. It's not like mine. And he's never going to be happy with that.

Steve Martorano
Are there situations where people can make their own food in a facility like yours, for instance, or another senior living facility.

Dave Bailey
So we're in a community of assisted living, there are no typical kitchens in an apartment. But what you can do is because we want the change to be as gradual as possible for somebody who's making this big move in their life, you meet with the dining service director, and most communities once a month, have a dining meeting, where the staff will meet with the residents and the residents will vocalize what they're looking for, what changes they want, made, what they liked, what they'd like to see, again, on a menu. But this is also a time in many communities that I've worked in, where the residents will say, "I've got this great recipe." And now the dining service director will meet with that resident, and say, "All right, Connie, let's take a look at that recipe. I'm going to try to cut as much of the fat out as possible. Well, hold on to all of the flavor. And next Tuesday night, we're gonna serve with us in the dining room is Connie's casserole."

Steve Martorano
Oh, terrific. Yeah, the other question is, and I'm sure this is a biggie too. Well, okay, this is fine for mom and dad. But what about Fido? What? What about the cats the parrots and the dogs? It could be a deal breaker, right? If you said no, no pets.

Dave Bailey
Yeah, it sure can be. The real deal breaker is when people come to visit me what they really want and I think Steve, you, and I would agree with this. If I could turn the clock back 20 years for all of us. Wouldn't that be great? Because while you want to move to an assisted living community, because there are certain things you need help with, bringing your dog along, and still having to go and walk your dog, and then pick up after your dog is really the challenge. Many communities are pet friendly, cats, parrots, fish dogs, you can have that pet with you. But you have to be able to maintain that pet. You have to be able to make sure that dog or cat is getting to see a vet twice a year. And The challenge then lies in when you come to a community. And all of your attention has been focused outside of your apartment to enjoy all the activities that the community offers. Is it really fair to the pet?

Steve Martorano
Where do you fit into that community? Let's let's tackle this third issue here now and take a look at the decision-makers here. Which very often are the seniors themselves, but more often than not are their children or their family. So you have another stakeholder here. And I would guess a significant voice in this entire process and that's the kids or the family. What is a first-rate facility...what is their position towards dealing with the family, which I'm sure is not an easy task?

Dave Bailey
It can be if the family has had some participation in the care of their loved one. If they've had to take on responsibilities every other night, Matt my dad's house because he calls me these five fallen on the floor. When it starts to impact the life of the advocate or the person who is caring for the senior, they are more apt to look to make this change. When the child is not so very involved and they don't really know...you know, they never had that episode where they had to go in the bathroom with their parent and clean them? Then sometimes it becomes about money. And that stakeholder who probably doesn't have a pension like myself, you know that many families rely on what they believe is part of their inheritance. And why I'm going to make this big move and pay for this 24-hour seven-day week oversight of care when I don't really think my father needs it? That's a big challenge. So if the person has had that hands-on experience with delivering that care, they know how valuable it is to find the right person to care for their loved one.

Steve Martorano
How are most of these services and facilities paid for by people? Is it private pay insurance that handles most of this?

Dave Bailey
So, Steve, we're going to talk to you about something that I don't know if you've, I'm sure you've heard of, but it's long-term care insurance. That is quite costly. And if you were part of a union, if you had worked for a company that had a great benefits package that you could buy into the long-term care insurance, many years ago was extremely affordable. I talked to teachers who have moved in and who have long-term care insurance. They say back in the '70s, we started paying about a dime a week. And they said, Oh, the union said, just go ahead and pay it and don't worry about it, it'll pay off for you in the long run. And those people who started to pay a dime a week, when it went up to $1, a week went up to $10 a month, they started to shake their heads, and some people opted out. But those who stayed in, who then needed long-term care facilities, such as an assisted living, or a nursing home. Some of those people have it all paid for. 100% for the rest of their life, no matter what their care level is.

Steve Martorano
They're the lucky ones. And it's no longer a dime a month, that's for sure that insurance is costly, as you point out. And I guess a word to the wise is, you shouldn't start looking for that kind of insurance when you're 60, or even 50, you should start and I know it's going to sound crazy, you should start looking for it. at whatever age you can afford it right?

Dave Bailey
You know, around the age of 50 is typically when people start to look into it, because they're dealing with parents now who might be facing some issues. And then they think about themselves. And if you're in good health at the age of 50, and start to enter into this plan, it might not be horrible. But Steve, some people think of it as well, it's betting against myself, I hope to never need that. But if I do need it, I want to make sure that it's there. Most seniors today will rely on a pension. Again, something that I know nothing about -- only from speaking with my elders, a pension, the sound of their home, which if you bought your home 40 years ago, and you paid maybe 125,000 for it. And today it's worth 400,000. That's your nest egg right there. Many times young children will say oh, if I need to pay anything into this, I will. We don't ever rely on that. And then there are benefits that do come from the Veterans Administration. So if you are a veteran, thank you for your service. If you're a veteran and need this kind of help, there's a program called Aid and Attendance. And that aid in attendance can give a read veteran, just a little over $2,000 a month. If you are the spouse who has inherited that benefit. I believe it'll pay you about $1,700 a month when you qualify for the care. There's a financial qualification as well as a medical qualification.

Steve Martorano
We said at the beginning, that there are a lot of ducks that have to be put in order. But this decision is important. And it's emotional. And I think as you can see from our guest Dave Bailey, there are people that understand that and can help you make your way through it. Dave, Brightview is all over the place, right?

Dave Bailey
We are an East Coast company from Boston down to Virginia, headquartered in Baltimore, Maryland. We appear on a lot of Best Places to Work lists. Fortune Magazine has had us at the top of their list for many years. And I'm very proud of that. We believe if we can create a great place to work, we can create a great place to live.

Steve Martorano
Yeah. Well, we thank you for your time. You came to us through people who've talked to you about Senior Living and they just raved about the process that you have described for us any anybody has any more questions you know, you can check out Brightview Senior Living there online. And Dave Bailey, their senior director of sales has been our guest on the Behavioral Corner. Dave, thanks a lot. I have more questions. Can we have you back at some point, I hope?

Dave Bailey
Oh, anytime. Steve. Steve, I'm an advocate for seniors. I am entering into that realm myself when I first started in this industry, I used to say came to work with 100 of my grandmothers and grandfathers every day. Now I come to work with 100 of my brothers and sisters, but I have aged in place. I am an advocate for seniors, I consider myself an expert. If I don't have the answer, I know where to find it. So if anyone would like to reach out to me if I can help in any way, I'm always available.

Steve Martorano
Thanks so much, Dave Bailey, and Happy New Year again, and to our guests and to you guys as well. Stay with us here on the Behavioral Corner through the New Year. Got lots of shows in the in the works and follow us and like us and you know the whole thing. We'll catch you next time on the Corner. Take care bye bye.

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