The Behavioral Corner 

Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano. And this is the Behavioral Corner; you're invited to hang with us, as we've discussed the ways we live today, the choices we make, the things we do, and how they affect our health and wellbeing. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner, please hang around a while.

Steve Martorano 

Here we are on the corner again, the Behavioral Corner with me the world's great greatest hanger router, I could do that as well as anybody. We sit here and see who passes by. And occasionally it's somebody really cool. That's what we think we have for you on the corner. Today we're going to talk about writing. That may seem odd to you what's writing got to do with behavioral health. I think it's got a lot to do with the way we feel and emotionally and spiritually being able to write and we have a terrific resource today to talk about that. Tim Whitaker is the executive director of something called the mighty writers. And what they do quite simply, is they teach kids to write. Tim has had a distinguished career both in teaching and as an editor and writer. He has edited periodicals in the Philadelphia Pittsburgh area for many years. And he's also been the head writer for NBC radio and written for PBS as well as the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Philadelphia Inquirer. So he is more than qualified to talk about not only this organization, that he now heads up the Mighty Writers, but also writing and what the actual benefits of it are. Tim, thanks for joining us on the corner. Really appreciate it.

Tim Whitaker 

Happy to be here, Steve. I never sounded so good. That sounds great. I'll put that on a loop and play that a few times.

Steve Martorano 

Thanks, I'm really good at making things up as I go along. Now actually, listen, you know, I came across your work a long time ago with the Mighty Writers, and the minute you see the name of it, you go we teach kids to write you just go. You know, if you care about kids and writing you go, that's a good idea. We're really grateful to have you tell us about the the the organization, its history, and we'll get a little deeper into it as we go along. 

Tim Whitaker 

Well, I was in journalism and it just stopped being fun. Around 2009, I was the editor of the Philadelphia Weekly, the alternative newspaper in the city, and, and, you know, the collapse of the publishing industry that the newspaper industry had hit us pretty hard. And, you know, I went from having meetings with the owner, about what stories to do and who to hire to do them to like, you know, who was going to lay off and how many pages I was going to cut my slides for this. So the only thing I don't think I knew how to do was write. And I will use like kids. So I had this idea of teaching really kids about writing because writing is back of the bus now. It's like math, science, standardized testing. But you know, it's only the occasional teacher here or there that loves waiting that will get to these kids about it, especially the public school system. And Philadelphia's just completely overlooked. So I thought if I could get a program like that together, you know, that would be like sort of my ideal program. So I put together a plan and I got some funders to give me some seed money. And we started 2009 on the corner of 15th and Christian in a storefront where we still have a location right next door to Kenny Gamble. Kenny Gamble owns a building. He's been really good to many writers. And we just started having kids from the neighborhood come in after school every day. We help them with their homework. And then we talked about writing. And we got better and better at this as time went on. And then open another one another writer center in West Philadelphia, then one for the Mexican community, a bilingual location in the Ninth Street Market, and then one in North Philly and one in Camden, and one for the children of farmworkers out in Kennett Square, which is really focusing a lot of attention and writing right now.

Steve Martorano 

That's terrific. Well, clearly you sparked the idea. It's been your life. What was the kid's reaction when they're confronted with they're going to teach you how to write? How did they react to that?

Tim Whitaker 

I don't want to do that!  I think it's like, the whole approach that mighty writers were, we're not a school are a whole different deal here. And your kids are great. And you tell these great stories. We pretty kids, our kids tell the greatest stories because they see so much crazy shit all the time, right? So on the playground, or on the block or whatever. And so we'll tell those stories verbally, and he just collapsed in laughter all the time. But They've never been taught how to put that on paper how to really, you know, make something of that. And in doing that, you know, they learn how to write an email. They learn how to communicate with grown-ups, you know, and then that's sort of how we operate is, you know, nobody's sitting at a desk with their hands folded, being disciplined is it's a clubhouse atmosphere. 

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, well, you're right about the under-emphasis on clear writing in schools. Seems a luxury now when it ought not to be. But even back in the day, you know, 200 years ago, when when I was in school, there were composition classes, but it was overwhelmingly about grammar. And I remember the dreaded diagramming of the sentences.

Tim Whitaker 

Did you go to Catholic school by chance?

Steve Martorano 

No, I did not I took a stronger Catholic than I to survive that kind of education. And you know, if you had a good grammar teacher, it was a great benefit. If you had a bad grammar teacher like I did, you had to wind up hoping that you had an instinct for good grammar. So tell me about the skills that you teach? I mean, do you diagram sentences of the Mighty Writers?

Tim Whitaker 

No, we don't diagram sentences. What we do is --- is introduce a topic, one that the kids will be interested in. And, you know, we, we have so many different programs at this point. So you know, we have everything's virtual, which has changed the atmosphere and the way we do things dramatically. But you know, when typically small groups of kids in the same age group interested in the same thing. So in a lot of our workshops, we have a lot of Girl Power workshops, incredibly popular. You know, we have mindfulness, where kids learn about mindfulness, and then practice mindfulness, and then write about mindfulness. And then, you know, since the virus, that's been, that's been a big favorite, and really helpful, I think, to the kids. So you know, we have a lot of different things. So we didn't lose those topics. And we get the kids to write about these topics, especially in the early stages, without any sense of grammar, just get it down on the page. Then we back into revision. And you know, the writer is like revision. So that's something you really have to introduce, you know, slowly and carefully and have kids realize that their story is phenomenal. It just needs to be like, buttoned down. And that all writers have to do

Steve Martorano 

Well-spoken like a former editor, for sure. But it is encouraging to hear that, you know, the reluctance to be edited? is innate. Yes. Oh, yeah. Don't read. What do you mean, don't rewrite me? What do you what are you talking about! What?!?! I can imagine a 12 year going, "Oh, man, this is never going to end." I do want to get into editing a little bit down the road because I'm fascinated by where editors come from. You're right about it's a skill set. That's really rare. A good editor. Well, a good editors the difference between, you know, Ernest Hawthorne and Ernest Hemingway...

Tim Whitaker 

Exactly.

Steve Martorano 

...at the end of the day. So the kids start out with just express yourself. Now a lot of these kids' inner-city kids, you mentioned the pandemic, for sure. But just in general, their life experience can be traumatic. They grew up with violence, they grew up with broken homes and many in poverty. To what extent do you think are you seeing that getting their feelings down on paper is an important therapeutic?

Tim Whitaker 

We ll, you know, I've always seen that in no matter where the kids come from, or where people come from, that when you put down on paper, what you're feeling, and not just randomly, but really, you know, think about it first, and then write it and then revisit it and all that does. And this is particularly true. In the case of the kids we work with, I think they do see a lot of violence, and a lot of chaos in their neighborhoods, or wherever they are, I think the fact that they can sit down and gather their thoughts and put it down on paper, and then revisit it in and again, you know, just really journaling is what it is. You know, I think it does. I think it does great things for them. 

Steve Martorano 

You know, I was a little disingenuous in my introduction, I know, pretty definitively the role writing plays in, in the mental health field. journaling is a tried and true method for getting people to express stuff that's inside and inside and hidden and destructive in that. So when you see it on the page, it can be very helpful. It kids work on computers, did they wrong hand? What's the mechanics?

Tim Whitaker 

It's a mix, you know, some of the classes depending on what the topic of the class is, or what the assignment is. It'll begin with a pencil and paper and then move to a computer but more typically, it's computers, you know, laptops. Some kids work on their phones. Some kids write on their phones.

Steve Martorano 

Really? Do they? It's amazing. Well, you know what? Yeah, for dinosaurs like us, you might go, that's not dinner that you got to sit at a desk and you got to open a vein. It's ridiculous. 

Tim Whitaker 

Yeah

Steve Martorano 

I do want to get, I do want to get very deep into what the impact of social media and, and the Internet has on the whole idea of writing. I told you before we began this, that I felt that even though it may seem counterintuitive, I think we're entering an era, not maybe the golden age of writing, but certainly have heightened importance in the ability to write clearly, everything we consume now on the internet, except for of course, the cat videos, you have to read. I mean, somebody wrote the Wikipedia page, somebody is even writing those snappy LL Bean ads I get every 30 seconds. So it's really important now, right? 

Tim Whitaker 

Absolutely, you know, the opportunities for people that want to go into writing have shifted dramatically, of course, and not for the better necessarily. But there are opportunities, like the ones you just cited, where, you know, if if you can learn to write really short, and your passion isn't journalism, per se, you can still find a lot of work.

Steve Martorano 

It's always been tough to write. But it's, it's always been even tougher to write for a living. And now it's not gotten any easier. I mean, there's a great, great opportunity, but there's so much out there that they're not paying people a whole lot of money. When these kids begin to open up. What is your experience in how deeply they will dive into their lives? And the way they really feel about things? Did they really get down to it?

Tim Whitaker 

Yeah, they do. They get really down to it, we, you know, we've had some kids have had really personally dramatic trauma in their families, suicide comes to mind with one kid, another kid that wrestles with depression, clinical depression. And in the case of those two kids, for example, that was a topic that could not be approached with their peers, and just barely with me, and over time, being able to talk about it, and then write about it. Over the course of a year, I would say they stood up in front of the other kids and told the story, which I thought was, you know, remarkable. And such a great relief for them to be able to, like, come out of the shadows with it.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, there is something incredibly powerful about taking something you know, often horrific, as you point out, and then articulate saying it out loud, it's sort of it...sort of doesn't make it go away, but it demystifies it, it makes it seem less scary. Do you have the kids stand up after they finish their whatever they're writing on and deliver it?

Tim Whitaker 

And we do a lot of that, you know, it's our way of teaching public speaking as well. You know, I'd like to do more of it actually. Virtually, of course, it's really difficult but good to see the kid. Stand up, feel proud of what you're saying. And like examples of the two people I just talked about, they were incredibly moving, and you know, had people feeling a lot of emotion. What's the age group you're dealing with? We deal with kids seven to 17. We also have toddler programs in the last couple of years, really successful.

Steve Martorano 

Toddler programs? How's that work with crayons?

Tim Whitaker 

Well, crayons. They make letters with you know, anyway we can get down to big get excited about that.

Steve Martorano 

Now, who's funneling your students to you? Are they coming through the school system or...

Tim Whitaker 

Through the school system, because the schools are unperceived, you know, so 11 years ago, when we started, we had relationships with a number of teachers and schools in the city, but, you know, the money kept getting tighter and tighter, and the teachers want of doing more and more and more to the point where they just don't have the time to even think about it, you know, so, we do much better by just embedding ourselves in the community, you know, going door to door neighbor to neighbor, friend, a friend, kid, the kid, you know, and we never have a problem eye-tracking kid, you know, right in there. 

Steve Martorano 

What's the typical, like, sign up? period, they sign up for a length of time, or how does it work?

Tim Whitaker 

When we're not virtual when we're in person, they sign up, you know, the program that we have after school and all these locations, runs from three o'clock to six o'clock. And you know, it's an everyday kind of deal. So, those kids we know really well those kids were really working hard on the writing. And so they have to show up, they have to be there and they know that you're waiting lists so that they're not that they fall out, you know, they're gonna lose your spot. So that's it. One program with scores of workshops nights and weekends with different age groups. And that can run once a week for four weeks. It could be about, you know, sports writing or, or election, any number of topics, those because we don't know quite as well, but we're getting them this thing creating the right, you know, a little bit at least.

Steve Martorano 

Are you worried that the kids who might most need for their emotional and, you know, mental well being the program like mighty writers are sort of in the worst spot to appreciate this? I mean, the family's life may be stressed, and they may not be somebody actively saying, hey, try this, do you worry about that?

Tim Whitaker 

Well, you know, there are so many stereotypes that I'm not saying that is a stereotype. But there are many sorts of sweeping ideas out there about the kind of families we're dealing with that are economically challenged. But the one thing I've found over and over again is how much they care about their kids. And they'll do anything to like relieve the whatever stress they're feeling, even if they're the ones causing it, you know, they're aware of, you know, they love their children. Yeah. And so, you know, they're wide open about that. 

Steve Martorano 

What are you finding, with regard to the girls over the guys? Is there? Is there a difference in their approach? Is there a difference in their candor? What do you see there?

Tim Whitaker 

It's typical of what everybody thinks that the girls are easier to open up. They're more interested in writing sort of natively. And, you know, boys are a hardened shell, the boys that do get involved and then once they turn the corner, you know, they get pretty invested. And it's a big victory. When we get those boys excited about writing.

Steve Martorano 

We're talking to Tim Whitaker, he's executive director of the Mighty Writers program in our area in Philadelphia. Now they're in lots of places, by the way, is the spread beyond the initial area?

Tim Whitaker 

Well in Camden. We're in Camden, on Kennett Square. We have a program just starting in Atlantic City and in Trenton, so we're getting deeper in Jersey all the time, 

Steve Martorano 

How are you funded? Are you not your nonprofit? 

Tim Whitaker 

We're nonprofit, funded by foundations, individuals, corporations. 

Steve Martorano 

Is there any charge for this?

Tim Whitaker 

No, charge. Everything we do, we do for free.

Steve Martorano 

It's remarkable. Let's talk about social media. It's the elephant in the room, of course, I believe about social media. Now the same thing I used to say about New York City. Anything you want to say about it is true. 

Tim Whitaker 

That's, that's true.

Steve Martorano 

Right? I mean, anything you want to say? But let's break it down in terms of the way it affects writing and thinking clearly and emotional health in the good column and a bad column. what's good about social media, from your standpoint, as a teacher of writing?

Tim Whitaker 

Well, you know, I'm a writer with a lot of, we get a lot of volunteers who say, older volunteers, especially Google sort of curse, coming up social networking, and how this has ruined rating and, you know, everything's a short burst, and the kids can think and we've always rejected that we always think that, that there's nothing wrong with Instagram, or YouTube or Facebook or even Tik Tok. Just be smart about it, you know, if your goal is to get somebody to laugh, you know, figure out how to do that. That's an exercise. And that's a skill, you know, or if you're going to whatever you're going to produce it well, and be proud of it. And writing short, always more difficult than writing long.

Steve Martorano 

Well, the great sin to avoid my experience has been overwriting, that's for sure. And the other thing is, is social media, I would guess social media, in context of writing, and expressing yourself so you feel better and think clearer, it's never been easier to go from your thought the thing you wrote to the audience. If you're writing an idea, you put the journal in the drawer and you go, I'm not gonna show that anybody but in this context, you get a chance to put it out there right away. But there is a downside to all of this because you're very vulnerable when you let anybody read anything you've written. And in the context of social media, you know, the wolves are out there. How do you prepare kids for what might happen in that context?

Tim Whitaker 

Well, a lot of bullying and all that stuff going on in a big way on social networks. at Twitter, most especially, I think, so you know, we can say the kids are getting bullied a lot that person immediately, you know, 

Steve Martorano 

You advocate not engaging in that tit for tat stuff, because it's just counterproductive just doesn't go anywhere. Is that it?

Tim Whitaker 

Yeah, for the most part, you know, again, we just say keep it smart. So, you know, if you're gonna debate somebody on social networking, you know, Make sure it's on a level they can be proud of, you know if there's if you're clinical somebody's name, or somebody close your name, get out of here. And so that's kind of the rule of thumb. 

Steve Martorano 

Have you seen it? I know you have, but I'll have to ask the question anyway. Have you seen kids come in who are not demonstrative shy? And have you seen their confidence grow?

Tim Whitaker 

Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's one of the things that one of our precepts about writing and self-esteem just goes up when kids are able to express themselves, for many of them for the first time, you know, especially when it goes from writing it down on paper to then talking about it or reading it to the other kids. And when that session is over, you just see these kids strutting around like, you know, top of the world, and really does wonders.

Steve Martorano 

We have historically dealt with some of these issues in a medical context. And that's appropriate many times. You know, this is something this is a therapeutic relief, having a kid sit down and express himself on a page that you could do at home, you don't need to go to a doctor, you don't need any drugs prescribed, it could be beneficial that way. You offer programs, where maybe people who can't be actively involved in mighty workers can mighty ready, can do things at home, but, you know, by themselves?

Tim Whitaker 

Well, you know, now it's all that. So all our classes are virtual. So there, you know, reaching a lot of kids from areas are situations where they couldn't take three to go into a physical location. So we're seeing a lot of kids like that. And they come from a lot of different reasons. You know, our big mantra is to get kids to think clearly and write with clarity, say, I'm going to go over and over and over again, it can't write anything of value. Unless you're thinking clearly first. Because most writers are grown-up students to, sit down to write something, they start pounding at the keyboard before they give up. But so what they want to say and write consequently, you get all these emails, that ramble and people what people are saying so, you know, getting kids to think clearly disclose amazing things for your self-esteem.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah. Yeah, that should be it should be perfectly obvious. Just a couple of, you know, nuts and bolts stuff. I'm often made fun of by my children. I use punctuation. I mean, just except for exclamation points, I draw the line there! But I, you know, I do capitalize and I do put periods at the end of sentences. Very often. Yeah, that's not necessary. How do you as an instructor, tell them, don't worry about that, and then work backward to more structure? Or how does it work?

Tim Whitaker 

Yeah, well, you know, the structure is all in the revision, right? So typically, the first essay you get, or the first piece of work that comes away, will be a lot of that, you know, capital capitalization this thing and that kind of thing. We teach that you know, not everybody's buying into this way, of expressing yourself, and you want to buy into everybody's way, right? So you're looking for a job, or you're looking to get into college, or you're writing an essay for college or even high school at this stage, you know, got a picture of the person at the other end.

Steve Martorano 

Do you just miss the notion that talent is the most important prerequisite for sitting down and reading something? Pure talent?

Tim Whitaker 

Yeah, I do. I do. I think there's, I think, I think everybody can write, well, if they work at it. I think some writers are always going to be a lot better thinkers, a lot more creative thinkers. And if they can combine creative thinking, and the discipline of writing, that's when you see these writers reach a whole other level. Yeah, well, I think everybody can be taught to write well because you know, it's a, it's a discipline, like anything else. And you know, it takes time and consideration, and all of that. Again, it doesn't mean that one kid not going to be a better writer than the other. But they're all going to be, you know, respectable.

Steve Martorano 

And they're all gonna learn a certain rigor, that's very important. Look, it's great. It's great. When your kids on a travel soccer team, I would minimize that for a second teaches you a lot of things in that context. But this is a program that I think, if you didn't, weren't aware that the importance of it the benefits, you know, the behavioral health sense, you might not appreciate how important it is to write well, to think clearly and get this stuff out. Tim, I got an I want to just finish up here. I got a couple of quotes from writers on writing. Okay. Incidentally, you know, there's been a lot of nonsense about writing some of these quotes are. Well, I'll let you decide. I'll give you a couple of quotes. Tell me whether you agree or disagree. Okay, this is from Hemingway. Hemingway said "It's none of their business. That you have to learn how to write. Let them think you were born that way."

Tim Whitaker 

Yeah, I don't see any problem with that.

Steve Martorano 

All right, Stephen King said, "You want to be a writer, you must do two things above all others. And that is read a lot and write a lot." Do you emphasize reading?

Tim Whitaker 

Yep, big time...big time. I've seen that quote before, and I can't. I can't underscore enough how important I think it is. It's really, you have to read all the time if you want to be a good writer. 

Steve Martorano 

Yeah. Just a couple more Joseph Heller of Catch. 22 wrote, "Every writer I know has trouble writing." Is that true? Or overstated?

Tim Whitaker 

You know, I don't know, for sure I have trouble writing, I find it really difficult. I'll put it off. I'll do almost anything except sit there and do it. given the option, you know, boy. It's hard work. 

Steve Martorano 

It's true. I tell the story of when I was living in Los Angeles trying to write screenplays, which is a whole nother kind of writing. One of the great things I did to divert my attention from writing was that I would go check the mail three or four times a day, in spite, in spite of the fact that I knew exactly when the mailman came the same time every day, it didn't matter. I would go out for four or five times a day. And when he finally arrived, and I saw him put the mail in the box and drive off I all I was struck by what a great job that is. Look at that. He knows exactly what he has to go. He knows exactly what goes in that box. I used to envy the hell man a lot. Finally, this one from Winston Churchill, and this is in the context of writing. Churchill said, "Never, never never give up."

Tim Whitaker 

Yeah, yeah, I buy that you helped me to give up. It's not the only way. So what they're trying to if you're a writer trying to sell something, giving up your kid does tell him to express yourself. You know, we were not big on giving up.

Steve Martorano 

Great. The Mighty Writers is the name of the organization. Tim Whitaker, their executive director has been our guest here on the Behavioral Corner. It's been terrific. Tim if people want more information. Do they just go to the website?

Tim Whitaker 

That's the place to go. Mightywriters.org. 

Tim Whitaker 

You take donations as well, I'm sure?

Tim Whitaker 

It's all in here. Yep.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, you get a couple of dollars. This is a great program, Tim Whitaker, thanks for hanging with us on the corner. This has been great and I hope I can get you back again real soon. 

Tim Whitaker 

Great. Thank you, Steve.

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