The Behavioral Corner 

Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano. And this is the Behavioral Corner; you're invited to hang with us, as we've discussed the ways we live today, the choices we make, the things we do, and how they affect our health and wellbeing. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner, please hang around a while. 

Steve Martorano 

Okay, hi, everybody. I'm Steve Martorano. And this is the Behavioral Corner. This is a place where we gather we like to think of it as kind of metaphorically a street corner we're hanging and we're sitting on the stoop. And we're talking about the way we behave, the choices we make, the behaviors we exhibit, and how all of those things significantly impact our mental health, or spiritual well being our entire lives. That's sort of the thumbnail description of what behavioral health is all about. to be at the behavioral corner is underwritten by our good friends and great partners, Retreat Behavioral Health. And we have with us, two of the just my favorite people, they really are for a number of reasons. First of all, these two women are poster people, for successful working moms, and we'll tell you all about that they have a backstory like a lot of people that involve active addiction. But they are, as I said, inspiring because I can't think of two better examples of just demonstrating what's possible. That's all I'm saying. You might not be able to do what they did. But at least they're here to tell you. They did it. And it's possible. And if that weren't enough, this is their third visit, for what we sort of were seeing me refer to as "Home for the Holidays." Maggie Hunt is with us. Hi, Maggie. 

Maggie Hunt 

Hi. 

Steve Martorano 

And her running partner, Grace Shober. 

Grace Shober 

Hi.

Steve Martorano 

Both, as I say, our successful career women they have they work for Retreat Behavioral Health, we'll find out what they're doing there now. But three years ago, when I said to Maggie, "You know, I bet you it's not easy to go home for the holidays." Because we all know, there are Hollywood movies, you know, where the quirky family shows up for Thanksgiving or Christmas. And then hilarity ensues. That can't be the case when you're an active addiction. So so maybe Can we talk about that. And so she and grace came together to two years now this was three years. And to tell us what "Home for the Holidays" is like if you're in active addiction, or, more specifically, you're making those first steps towards recovery and you've got a lot of fences demand, you've got a lot to do at a very fraught, potentially fraught period of time, the holidays. So we welcome them back. And it's good to see you again. I haven't seen you guys in a long time. Because we're all doing this remote. You look great. Grace, I know you before we started this thing you dropped a bombshell on us. You had COVID huh?

Grace Shober 

I did have it. Yep.

Steve Martorano 

Tell us about it.

Grace Shober 

So, I've been far from it for several weeks at this point. But it was tough for me to go through and it hits everybody differently. The rest of my family here in my household like my kids and my fiance didn't really exhibit any symptoms. I got the worst of it, which I prefer anyway, I don't want the kids to feel sick, and especially my fiance that's like the end of the world when he sick. But, um, but you know it, it took some time to recover from it. I still don't have like smell or taste. But it's nice knowing at this point that once you have it, you're immune to it for at least a significant period of time and hopefully up until the vaccines available to take it but it's definitely a process.

Steve Martorano 

Well, it's amazing. I'm glad you look great, by the way. So... 

Grace Shober 

Thank you. 

Steve Martorano 

That's good. And Maggie, you have been virus-free, I hope.

Maggie Hunt 

I have been virus-free. But I was gonna say it was fun for me on the other side, like talking to Grace every day. Because when she first got sick, I was like maybe you have COVID she's like, "No way. No way. No way. No way." And then, you know, like each day just she got worse. And then she was like "I lost taste and smell." And then we didn't need the results because we already knew. But that you know, but that but she definitely like went through then she had to isolate. So she couldn't be around her family. And so she depressed because she didn't want to be away from her family. So to be with her throughout that whole process has been definitely interesting from the other side.

Steve Martorano 

That's great. Yeah...

Grace Shober 

I'm sorry, I just have to. That's a good point that Maggie made is like, you real...I didn't even touch on that I was such a more of like, the physical symptoms that she's right. Like I was up in my room because I got a positive test first. So I was up in my room away from my kids and everything else is isolated and you do fall into like depression. You really do and I would call Maggie and talk about I'd be like I like to feel not good, you know? So I can see how to like somebody who already has really really bad depression, or it's like going through a hard time how that can make it like so much worse.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, this will certainly get into it with regard to coming over the holidays while dealing with substance abuse. But boy, talk about the mother of all triggers, right? I mean, you know, this...this is a this is really a tough one. Let's go back in time, and talk a little bit about what it was like for you, for you guys, when you were both using and managed to get an invitation to go home for the holidays? Because they were probably scarce. for a few years. What was it like Maggie? Do you remember those first times when you would be invited back for Thanksgiving or Christmas? 

Maggie Hunt 

Yeah, I mean, I remember when I was using, I was probably on like, a little bit of the younger side. So I still lived at home. So like, I would still come. But it was just like a breeding ground for me to drink and get very silly, let's say, and embarrass my family. But, when I first got sober I remember I wasn't allowed to come home for Thanksgiving. And so I was like, a little bit upset. You know, because she was like, "Well, you can't...no, you can't come home, yet." Like, I was gonna recover. I think I was in a halfway house at a time. So she's like, "No, you have to stay, no, you have to stay up there. No, you can't come home first, you know, certain holidays." And that hurt. Because, you know, I...you know, obviously I take everything personal. And I'm super codependent. So like, on my mom's side, she's setting boundaries. She's saying like, no, this is good for you. You need to stay up there and you know, do what you need to do. The best gift that you could give us for this holiday is just to stay sober. But inside my soul. I'm like, "No! Nobody loves me! Everyone hates me!" But they're really just like making good decisions for me because I'm not able to do it myself.

Steve Martorano 

That's gotta be a tough one. Grace, what was it like for you?

Grace Shober 

Yeah, I mean, pretty similar. Except like, I, I know, like when Maggie talks about in her family kind of like when she said it was a breeding ground, my family was more so like, I was the black sheep, you know. So like, I was the one using and drinking and doing all these things. So for a long time, I wasn't able to same kind of difference to like, I was in treatment for many holidays. And then when I did get sober, I was kind of like, silently invited back. So it wasn't like you're not invited. So I would just go. And it was awkward. It was really awkward. There were only a couple of people in my family who are pretty like quickly forgiving. And the others took time. And still some it's a work in progress 6 years later. Um, but it was an awkward feeling in the beginning. 

Steve Martorano 

You both do you both remember situations, where you would sit down at the table to or even just mingle socially before everybody started eating and feel who around the room was going okay when is she gonna...when is she going to go off the rails? There must have been people in the room going, "It's just a matter of time, right?"

Maggie Hunt 

Yeah, my Aunt Suzanne recently brought up a time where I was like telling everybody that I was sober. But like, I was not sober and that she like rounded the corner one time and saw me like putting vodka in a drink and that she just like we just like both stood there and looked at each other for a while. Like, I was like, "Are you going to say anything?" And, you know, whatever. But I think for me, and also probably for Grace too, early on in sobriety, this is the conversation that the family has before you even got there is like, "Are we going to have alcohol with this newly sober person?" And then I'm like, "I don't want people to do anything different just because of me." But at the same time, I secretly want there to be alcohol there. So just in case, I do decide to drink, it's an option. Then it's awkward...you know, is there gonna be alcohol? Is there not going to be alcohol? What's the best decision, you know, that whole conversation that we can have for days. Because, you know, obviously, it's not one size fits all. But it's something that you definitely need to talk about when you're in person in recovery

Steve Martorano 

That's, that's a great point, Grace. One of the things, when I read about this stuff, is that it's interesting. I think people on the outside of active substance abuse think that this is totally about willpower. And it is. I mean, willpower, people your head down, doing what...but there's a whole series of tips that make the process Maggie just talked about easier. And that one is having a plan. Having a plan, you can't just walk into the first Thanksgiving dinner, when you're using or in recovery and think everything's going to be the same. I keep reading about an exit strategy for Grace. First of all, explain what is when an exit strategy is?

Grace Shober 

So I mean, there's a whole bunch of things that Maggie and I talked about, and for me, I was blessed that differed actually from Maggie's side, my family didn't like to want alcohol at that at the house and stuff and that was helpful. Um, but at the same time, like having an exit strategy is having a plan to get out of there when like things get uncomfortable, whether there's alcohol there or not, because my family, in particular, some of them would push my buttons because they wanted to see, they wanted to see me crack and like, break and be like, "Oh, look, she's the same that she's always been." So there are different reasons to have that exit strategy. And that could be like, for me, honestly, in early recovery was calling somebody like Maggie who's been like support to me and helped me get sober. And so I would call somebody like, Maggie be like, "I need...what do I do? Like I need to get out of here." Um, you know, so just having a plan in place. If you have to leave that you're able to do so.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, yeah. Have the cell phone with you? I can just see the conversations all over the place with people slipping off into the powder room or in the basement going, "Oh, my God, get me out of here." By the way, you described a unique circumstance, people struggling with real problems...real diseases, addiction. But this is a holiday that's difficult. was one of my favorite expressions. I don't know where I heard it. But some curmudgeon once said, "Well, Christmas has this by the throat again." It can feel like that? I mean, it's one of the most stressful times of the year, you're required to do so many things. We don't have a plan for it. But it's necessary to have one for sure in the situation you're talking about. Maggie, were there, siblings involved in both your situations? You both have siblings, right? Looking back, who's looking back on it? Who's kind of tougher on the recovering substance abuser? Is it brothers and sisters or mom and dad? Or is it pretty? Well...

Grace Shober 

Brothers and sisters. 100%...100%.

Maggie Hunt 

Yeah.

Steve Martorano 

They're just mad at you, right?

Maggie Hunt 

Well, yeah because they do everything right and get no attention and you do everything wrong and get all the attention. Yep. Whoops. 

Steve Martorano 

That right, Grace?

Grace Shober 

Yeah, it was easier too I think it is...I mean, even though they love us and stuff like that like I know, as a parent, it is like, must be so extremely difficult to cut your children off. Whereas if your brother your sister, it's maybe a little bit easier to cut them off.

Steve Martorano 

Well, even a great expression is, you know, "You don't get to choose your relatives." Right. So that being the case, "I'm cutting that person loose. She's nuts."

Maggie Hunt 

Right.

Steve Martorano 

Mom and dad are a little tougher. I know, Grace, in particular, that your folks didn't get to it immediately. But they did arrive at that point where they just went. "You got to not come around here anymore." You got to say you reach that point. I'm sure, Mag, right? 

Maggie Hunt 

Oh, yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I mean, I don't think with my brother I don't think he forgave me for multiple holidays. You know, so like, my anxiety was probably...he's very like, like, cold a lot. You know, I mean, he's not, but like, in my case, he was very cold. I think it was easier for him to just, like, accept me as dead than to, you know, be happy I got sober again, just to be disappointed over and over and over. 

Steve Martorano 

Right. He was in effect protecting himself.

Maggie Hunt 

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Steve Martorano 

You're not gonna do this to me again. And then I guess the other thing, Grace, it's common in a family situation, and heightened during a holiday is that the, you know, the brothers and sisters are looking across the table. And even though they can clearly see that your eyes are clearer, your skin's better. And you, you know, for practical appearances look like you're doing okay. There's a resentment there. "Oh, everything's okay. Now, I guess everything's okay?"

Grace Shober 

I mean, and truthfully, too like, there were times when I felt like, I wanted to go and I knew I was like, sober and doing well. And I wanted to go, but at the same time, I felt a little selfish, because I knew that people were like, not happy that I was there, which was like a sad feeling. Because you're like, Okay, well, I survived. And I'm like, trying to get through it. And a lot of people don't survive. So it was, hard to be like, "Why don't they want me there so bad." But there were many times like at family-like...within the first, like, one-two years where they would be questioning me to the point where I felt like, "Did I use?" It's like when you walk out of a store, and you don't buy anything, and you're like, I didn't stop, let's keep going straight. You know, like, that's how I felt. I'm like, I'm sober. But they're questioning me so harshly. Like, is something wrong with me?

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, yeah, we're talking to Grace Shober and Maggie Hunt, they both are working for Retreat Behavioral Health, and talking about their experience with substance abuse. And again, we don't need any, any gory details. But when I tell you that both these women...where they were headed, years ago, and where they are now are a miracle that we're not talking about a little bit of trouble with substance abuse. We're talking about the whole nine yards. So this process that you just described was it's an odd situation in the holidays, and there are people that are maybe rooting against you. And then there's the, you know, the hostility and all that. I know everybody's different. But what advice, Maggie, would you give somebody facing maybe their first or second time in the holidays on these circumstances? Should they power through that? Or should they stay away? Well,

Maggie Hunt 

Well, it's hard for me to say because I feel like this year people are gonna...I'm worried more for people newly sober being alone this year, I think than anything else, because, like, I just, we just canceled all of our Thanksgiving plans that we had for the family from out of state. So I think I'm a little bit more worried about people being alone than I ever have been, you know, for certain holidays. But I think that yeah, I mean, having a plan, having an exit plan... I have an exit plan, no matter where I go anyway. If this is gonna be terrible, I don't want to be there. Like, I always, like, have some kind of, you know, plan for wherever. But so that's like, the most responsible...but I think that like, for somebody who's struggling on whether or not they're, like, go go to the holiday, I guess like, yes, power through, because any kind of connection might be better than no connection. 

Steve Martorano 

Yeah.

Maggie Hunt 

You know, if you have the opportunity to go and like being with family like I would say "Yes." Because it's, you know, times are so uncertain. This holiday is so strange. So, you know, I would say, Yeah, power through" I feel people will be in better spirits newly sober than they probably ever have been.

Steve Martorano 

I mean, you guys both know, Grace, you know, for sure that the goal, one of the goals of sobriety is to return to the real world. But it's not enough just to not use, you've got to now get back into the real world. And there is, in one sense, there's no truer test of the real world than dinner with your crazy relatives.

Grace Shober 

Well, hey, look, I mean, the thing, the truth of the matter is, you could go to a holiday, I think like they're all filled with emotions, anyways, like being at the holiday concert, the main people and you know, things like that, but you could go and it could be the best day and you could still need that exit plan. Like everything might go perfectly, and people might be treating you so nicely. And the fact that it's your first holiday sober, you're gonna have your own feelings and emotions to what you need to make sure you take a look at like, "Is this just me feeling this way?" You know, because everybody else might be really great to like, whether you think that it's going to be a great day or a bad day, it could always go sour. So make sure regardless, if you have a family like mine, who like didn't drink or a family as Maggie said there was like alcohol there if you need a plan either way. Um, so make sure that you have a list of phone numbers that you can call, like, somebody is close to you like Maggie's my sponsor, that would be somebody that I would call right away. Make sure you have a meeting that you can go to. Because, you know, any day that ends in "y" we can destroy, you know, let's just be real, just because it's the holidays, we just have to have a little bit more, um, you know, the plan under our belt. 

Steve Martorano 

You know, what's remarkable about discussing this in the context of holidays, first of all, a couple of things As you point out, Mag, this is a unique situation. I mean, who knows if anybody can go home for the holidays? But in general, Thanksgiving, in particular, is it strange holiday and in one sense with regard to family interaction, as anybody you guys know, the biggest go out the night of the year is not New Year's Eve. It's the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, right? Because the college kids are back now home. And yeah, they want to see their friends again. But you know, they're fortifying themselves for that meal the next day, which is always or potentially stressful. This year. Grace, you same as Mag, no big gathering, right?

Grace Shober 

Not really, no, I mean, they're just going to be the family that's around here. You know, very small. We're no...it's not gonna be family from like, all over that's like flying in or traveling. As Maggie said, we're gonna keep it small.

Maggie Hunt 

I just canceled plans. We have family coming from Boston and Philadelphia -- canceled both of those. So it'll probably just I don't even know if my mom will come from Bucks County just us probably here at the house. 

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, it's hard. I can't you know, everybody had these conversations. But we're being asked for being forced to sacrifice one holiday season. So that obviously we can have you know, a few more. Grace, your family was earlier on involved in the halfway houses. So is that still going on "Grace's House?"

Grace Shober 

 Yep. 

Steve Martorano 

Tell us about it.

Grace Shober 

Yeah, it's still going. I will say like for the ladies at the house, just like as a general rule of thumb. We don't have people go for overnights like you said the night before Thanksgiving. Because it's just like tricky. But also we make sure that nobody's alone. Like Maggie had touched on. Like we have people signing at the list, like, you know, if there's one person who's going to be home by themselves at the recovery house, we will have them join one of our families, one of management's families. So they're not alone. Because I mean, I know we talked about being in a group setting, but Maggie made a really good point too, about being by yourself can be like, way worse. So, um, you know, things are going good there, we just try and implement the same things that Maggie, myself, and other people in recovery have to follow kind of on a daily basis. We just don't really have people holding us accountable for it. But these things at the Shober House are things that we all have to do to maintain our sobriety. You just need a little bit more oversight in the beginning.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah. It's a remarkable story about your mom and dad decided that it's that old thing I said the model was, you went to a substance, a resonant treatment center, 28 days, and then you fell in love with one of the doctors there. And you went home. That was the Sandra Bullock method for beating addiction. And you know, anybody who knows anything about it knows 28 days six, I'm going to do it. So this halfway house thing is important. And I know they're going to be people this holiday season, who that will be the center of their holiday...of their holiday season. So it's really, it's really very valuable. Hey, guys, so the first time he's done the podcast, he did the old radio show. But now you know, you're going to put your face on the website, and you're going to be on the "Corner." We really appreciate this. And, by the way, for the record how long sober Grace?

Grace Shober 

Six years since September

Steve Martorano 

Amazing. Mag?

Maggie Hunt 

11 and a half. It'll be Yeah, 11 and a half. 

Grace Shober 

Once you hit that decade point. We're like, yeah!!!!

Steve Martorano 

That's a big number. Anyway, guys, again, it's our tradition. So a little Christmas tradition or a little holiday tradition as three now I appreciate that. You know, you really you're heroes. You really are I mean, I don't want to blow smoke. But you guys are something. And thanks. Have a safe Thanksgiving and Christmas. We'll probably talk before that. And thank you all for hanging with us on the Corner.

Maggie Hunt 

Take care. Have a nice holiday too.

Steve Martorano 

Bye Bye, guys.

Retreat Behavioral Health 

Every storm runs out of rain. According to the great Maya Angelou. Her words can remind us of one very simple truth that storms do cross our paths, but they don't last forever. So the question remains, how do we write out this storm of COVID-19 and all the other storms life may throw our way? Where do we turn on issues such as mental health or substance abuse begin to deeply affect our lives? Look to Retreat Behavioral Health. With a team of industry-leading experts, they work tirelessly to provide compassionate, holistic, and affordable treatment. Call to learn more today. 855-8020-6600. Retreat Behavioral Health where healing happens.

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