The Behavioral Corner 

Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano. And this is the Behavioral Corner; you're invited to hang with us, as we've discussed the ways we live today, the choices we make, the things we do, and how they affect our health and wellbeing. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner, please hang around a while. 



Steve Martorano 

So I want to welcome everybody to a really interesting and I'm looking forward to this edition of the Behavioral Corner, you know, we hang here and try to run into interesting people that can help us understand lots of stuff, shows about the way we behave, and how that behavior impacts our emotional, psychological, spiritual well being. And to that extent, we've got two great guys who really are in the trenches, fighting this pandemic, and bring to it a perspective. That has a lot of importance when it comes to that social or community aspect. They are in the food and beverage industry, and that's a pretty good sort of business school-ish. Unless I'll introduce them to you. Patrick Iselin is an old pal. Patrick is the CEO of a small independent company called a Vintage Syndicate. They own and operate several bars and restaurants in the Philadelphia area. He joins us to discuss what's going on there. And the fellow I was gonna say in the green but you're both wearing some green. That fellow too is what would be is right, is a Fergie Carey. Fergie has described himself in the past as a Publican and that's what the "P" -- Publican. And in that regard, he sure is he is one of the most famous bar owners restaurant owners innkeepers the city has ever produced in that capacity. He is owned and operated some legendary joints. When I say a place is a "joint" I couldn't be saying anything more affectionate, some wonderful, wonderful places, not least of which is Fergie's Pub, of course, and, and Monks, if you're a beer lover, you know, Monks. So I want to welcome both of you guys to the Behavioral Corner, there's a real treat for me.

Patrick Iselin 

Oh, thank you, Steve.

Steve Martorano 

So, I'll begin with this Atlantic Magazine article that I read the other day, I think it's just from a couple maybe a week ago or so. It's very lengthy. It's about your business. It's about the impact. It's about what's going on and what the future holds. But I'm struck by the title. They titled what has happened to your business as an "extinction-level event"? Is it that bad, Patrick?

Patrick Iselin 

I think for many, absolutely, I think for small independent restaurants, dangerously so. We are at the mercy of landlords, in many cases, certainly the general public, and for the first time in any meaningful way, the US government, I would say that, given the circumstances, and given the restrictions that have been placed upon the restaurant industry, which, unfortunately, are not also they're also not unilateral, for example, Philadelphia County, where we operate, is under much stricter restrictions than even neighboring Montgomery, and Chester, all of whom, today are still able to operate at 50% indoor capacity. If that were to be rolled up into the disastrous response from the US government, after the initial onset of this pandemic, a complete lack of response vis-a-vis support for it in the form of stimulus and what have you, given the ongoing restrictions that have been placed and how much restaurants in particular bars nightclubs, restaurants have been singled out as a driver of this problem -- we are facing almost nothing short of public execution in terms of our inability to operate by law and our lack of help from governments. So yeah, essentially "extinction-level event." I don't think it's hyperbolic.

Fergie Carey 

Yeah, that, Steve, would be I hope the hell enough an "extinction-level event." But, as Patrick mentions, we are basically suffering a shit show because of a lack of governing at local, state, and federal levels. That's really it. It's despicable. 

Steve Martorano 

You know, the truth of the matter is from from the standpoint, you're talking about the people you would expect to help. The simple truth of the matter is at no level of government was anybody ready for this. I mean, you know, right now, everybody has heroes and villains. And there are no heroes and villains. But from the jump, no one was ready. Some rally to the crisis. Others did not. You guys are getting the absolute brunt of this and I'll give you the perspective from -- and you know, you hear it -- from the outside and that is, what's all the fuss about bars and restaurants. Tell me why that matters from an economic standpoint because I don't think people associate when they go into their favorite restaurant to get a burger and a beer. The number of people in the chain that are supported by those efforts. It's big right?

Fergie Carey 

It's massive. Yeah, I mean, the owners, the staff. And then there are the food purveyors like to the guy who cleans the lines and who sharpens the knives, and it just goes on and on. And yeah, so your chain is just broken. 

Steve Martorano 

Patrick, do you think this attitude of this cavalier attitude about what's the fuss it's just going out to eat. Hurt? Obviously, it hurts. I mean, when the airline industry gets in trouble, right? Everybody freaks out. Oh my god, we got an airline industry and they go, "Well, we can get by without restaurants and bars." That hurt? 

Patrick Iselin 

Yeah, I think part of it is the fact that most people to some degree can cook themselves burger. So they're not as reliant on us as an industry in order to feed them they come to us because they don't want to cook themselves a burger and because they want to socialize, and so on and so forth. I also think that and this is a little bit past unkind to say, but I think it's fair to say that there's a general sense of entitlement that has been for many, many years, perhaps forever, with restaurants. The gentleman who would like a burger feels entitled to go out in order and be given a burger that is his satisfaction. And I think that generally, there is less of a connection between the consumer and the public, and then there is between the consumer and his desire to just be fed in exchange for money. So I, there's less of an investment, I think than many people might believe, for the burger consumer. Many of them don't care who owns the restaurant, they just want the restaurant to be there. And they want to be able to get their burger on a whim when they wish to have it. But yeah, people can cook their own food at home, it's not critical. If somebody needs to get to Japan, they need an airplane. And that's not something they have the wheels of commerce and the inability for people to help themselves in that regard. I understand why people are more up in arms when the airline industry is struggling

Steve Martorano 

To discern the difference between your strategic industry and any other industry. I mean, nevertheless, I think it's been overlooked how the economic impact of shutting people off necessarily, from dining out going to a bar is enormous. Enormous. Fergie, how many places are you currently operating, and how many were you operating before the shit hit the fan?

Fergie Carey 

Well, I'm involved in four places, and all four are shut down now. So yeah, so four to zero. I mean, we've recently shut down in the last two weeks, like 10 days, 11 days ago we shut down on Sunday. The indoor restrictions were like no indoor dining whatsoever, went into place two Fridays... was it this day last week?

Patrick Iselin 

I'm so punchdrunk. It was two Fridays ago 

Fergie Carey 

So then we decided we would shut down on the Sunday by that Sunday evening, all four places were shut down. And the decision was emotionally tough, but economically not that tough because weren't making enough to pay rent then. So winter is coming. Things are not going to get better when you're just outside. The financial decision was was pretty bloody easy. Okay? When I think of myself and Fergie's Pub, and also my old partner Tom Peters, with Monk's Cafe. I mean they're more than just business you know that is your like your heart and soul. This is your selfish project. You go in there every day and you love it. When something is happening to that business...not just your wealth, but your health and well-being is involved in that business, too. And that takes a hit. When you're shut down and when things are bad. You see people physically get ill when their businesses are -- that they love-- are failing. Twenty-nineteen was Fergie's Pub's busiest year ever. And then if you told me 10 months later, you'll be doing a GoFundMe to try and survive. I'll be like, you're crazy man. So again, nobody saw this coming. There's always all Ebola, SARS, whatever, like, you know whatever. There's another threat that never happened. So, I think that's the way the world thought about this. Especially America was like, "Well, yeah, if that's not gonna happen. That shit never happens. They always talk about it." But then it happened. And here we are. 

Fergie Carey 

You know, there's nothing wrong with a little denial. Of course, the United States leads the league now, in being able to deny reality, and it's and it's obviously killing people. There are so many ironies and so many bitter truths about this thing, just at the moment when you most need the comfort of community and maybe a place where you can go sit with some friends and break some bread and have some wine. Gone, you can't have that In fact. that could kill you. So don't do that. So it's crazy. What you just described from a business standpoint, Fergie, how many people you employ are now impacted by those business decisions?

Steve Martorano 

Oh, between 100 and 200p people

Steve Martorano 

Patrick, how many for your group?

Patrick Iselin 

So directly employed by me are currently on the dole, something in the region of 185. Across the seven places that we were operating prior to prior to the closure and like Fergie, we are currently operating zero. So, all right, he made the same fairly easy financial decision to lose less money closing that attempt to open. In terms of everyone...gosh, hundreds and hundreds if you start considering line cleaners, pest control, all of the ancillary businesses... You know, restaurants employ an inordinate amount of people and they are supported by an inordinate number of vendors of all kinds. Food purveyors, soap purveyors - the list goes on and on. So directly, just shy of 200. indirectly I wouldn't be surprised if we touched another four or 500 lives.

Steve Martorano 

That's amazing. What's the latest number you guys know of the restaurants that have gone dark? And aren't coming back? I mean, how many Fergie?

Patrick Iselin 

Not coming back at all?

Steve Martorano 

Yeah.

Fergie Carey 

Like City Tavern was there was...

Steve Martorano 

Gone.

Fergie Carey 

And across from Fergie's Pub, there's is a small chain out of Jersey, The Brick Wall and Porter and Brick Wall was their bar beer and Porter was their pizza restaurant. I really liked it. I like them. But they never open Brick Wall after the shutdown. And then Porter closed around a month ago. And I know the amount of money they were taking in was enough to cover payroll, but nothing else. And I know they have massive rent, like five-six times the rent that I pay at Fergies.

Steve Martorano 

So we're just taking what you guys described and multiplying it. You know, it's astonishing. The number of people affected this from an economic standpoint. We're talking to Fergie Carey and Patrick Iselin t about the devastating effect of the pandemic on the business end of what they do, which is food and beverage. We're going to get into the other stuff in a second about the emotional toll because Fergie, you let us read naturally into it. One of the other things that you read about restaurants and it was in that Atlantic article I mentioned was the author makes the point that restaurants are really more than just restaurants, pubs the same way. They're mirrors of the community. And now that's gone away. Or what do we lose? Publican is a great description of what you are. You're in the people business and you cut off, you know, your raw material, which is people. Are you hearing from them how much they miss Fergie's Pub? How much they miss Monks?

Fergie Carey 

Absolutely. I mentioned early on I did a Go Fund Me for Fergie's Pub, but it was like an I think around a month ago. And what it was as we still had indoor dining, but the weather changed. And like a sedan, then suddenly one week is like, Oh, we did 50% of what we did last week, which was probably bad. But you know, we're still way off from the year before. Well, there was just it was just suddenly. And I said like if I don't borrow or do something now, like, yeah, I'm not paying to make payroll next week. You know, I can sort of getting through this week. I had to do this. So we did that like so we did a GoFundMe, we wanted to raise $30,000, which I thought was a minimum. We made that in 18 hours. And then we also want to call us we bumped it up to 60 grand. We made that on I think we're around $67,000 right now. And that is money that I can basically sit on and use to stay closed on yet hopefully to open up again. But another part of being a small business and involved in the community is like we gave for years. We gave to the like the to like theater to music. The Fringe Festival. I ran the bar for the Fringe Festival for 10 years. Donated half of the profit I gave there. I'm on the board of I'm sitting on the board of a theatre company in about English new a theatre company that I that produces new plays from Ireland, England, Scotland, and Wales. Before that, I was on the board of Brock Productions for 15 years. And when somebody has an accident and needs something, oh, we'll do a fundraiser for you. We'll do this. We've always been giving. And then people gave back tenfold. And the theatre community like I, they, they stood up like yeah, like, like nobody's business. They really, really missed us and I forget his father. We had our 26th-anniversary party on Monday night, we did by zoom. I had like, I'd like 40 to 50 people on the zoom chat. It was like my TV show. I was wearing a nice theater jacket. And I talked to everybody. And it was so much fun. But it was like yeah, people are craving that thing. And again, when I first opened Fergus Pub I lived in, like Bella Vista. And you're just so worried that we're going back 26 years ago, but in like South Philly, or you couldn't get a decent burger and a decent beer in a safe environment. Right? So that's our open Fergies Pub and then like, all my friends and people who became my friends, they're on like cycling up from from the Italian market and South Philly, you need to come in like we definitely do. There was this voyage. So that's 26 years ago, and then a week later, the Continental opens at Second and Market. And I'm the same day that Sugar Mom's opened around the corner from things seem to develop and spread from there.

Steve Martorano 

You know, Fergie, it's great to be mentioned that because, you know, those of us had been in Philadelphia a very long time. I was born here and had been in and out of town over the years working in other places. But when I come back, I think it was when I was in Boston, and came back and Old City was now flourishing. It was like another place. I mean, no one went into that part of the city. No one went downtown in South Philadelphia unless they had relatives. Fishtown -- the River Wards? No one. So when these places when the city begins to get bigger, it always struck me as less a question of the city actually getting larger, but villages popping up. This place is a village. This is and I'm telling you, in addition to the young urban pioneers. These kids wanted to get into the cheaper rents and didn't care about the reputation in the neighborhood, they're the first ones in, but right behind them is the guy who opens a restaurant selling cheap good food.

Fergie Carey 

Maybe not behind them, but maybe in front of them.

Steve Martorano 

Right, maybe right alongside.

Fergie Carey 

Well, so we are in Fishtown right now they're, like, a few blocks away in northern liberty, say, two guys open, Standard Tap right. And that glued that neighborhood together. That's the way I see it as you know, it's like oh, yeah, then I went to that. I went to the bar that was there before Standard Top -- The Bull and Whistle or something like that. Yeah, you know, it was kind of still a dicey neighborhood and stuff, but what those guys did and I've seen this many times too. I like this. South Philly taproom was a more deliberative like to recreating that being from a developer but he still did it john Longacre, a friend of mine, he like he the big developer in that neighborhood, but he knew what to do to anchor that neighborhood. He put in South Philly Taproom and I jumped to it like when times I heard them like they're not coming to like William Reed and Paul Kimport from Standard Tap and say, Hey, guys, you really you did a lot for this neighborhood a lot for the city. You don't have to pay taxes for the year. Like so. Fergie's Pub I, I got an opportunity, a really cheap opportunity to get in there. And I took it but I thought, well, this is you're ever gonna do a bar-like, this is that. So I did. And it was, it was tight. It was in Center City but was still a crappy neighborhood. But I was like, you know, so we'll take that risk when we bring people in and now but 

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, why not help? Why not? Where's the Calvary when you need help? You know, it's just it is fascinating. Your whole...

Fergie Carey 

And 13th and Samson, and now that is "restaurant row." It's like porn, porn theater, get your bike stolen, get mugged to like...

Steve Martorano 

The only reason you went on that street was to park the car that you've parked in the parking lot went someplace. You know, Patrick, I don't want to make too big a point of this. But you guys are history buffs, you know, this, that civilizations, actual civilizations, established at the, at the terminus of rivers, where the was fertile, and you could grow crops and towns grew up. Well, that's exactly the role restaurants and bars played in cities growing up, that's exactly what they've

Patrick Iselin 

100% and if I may, Philadelphia in particular, is especially interesting, interesting, because Philadelphia is a truly residential city. People really live and work in Center City, Philadelphia and the surrounding neighborhoods. A restaurant from a sort of social standpoint is the glue that binds people to need a place to exchange ideas you know, create romances, and spin yarns you know what I mean? And restaurants going to these neighborhoods, sometimes immediately behind or often ahead. And if it's a well-executed place, and people derive genuine joy from it. It's a big part of establishing these villages, these footholds every village needs a main street and every bit village needs a meeting hall. And Philadelphia in particular really lends itself that way because of the makeup of the city as opposed to I think of cities like Pittsburgh, for example, where the downtown is after 5 pm is uninhabited. We're very fortunate in that regard. We're also very social city Philadelphians, in general, like to mix it up. I think it's a big part of the entire and I don't think Philadelphia is unique in this regard by any stretch. The human condition requires that so degree, it's been taken from us all, hopefully, in the short term. And it's certainly impactful to us. Fergie alluded to this earlier. He, as an owner, operator, you're fully invested in these businesses. Sometimes it's disappointing that there's a general sense of entitlement and a lot of the clientele not all of the clientele where they don't seem to care as much. But the staff, there's the pride of ownership, there's the pride of execution, restaurants, and bars are incredibly familial at atmospheres to work in. We are missing from our end, we're missing our own social circle because it's the place where we mix it up to. And I think that the general public whether they know it or not, are being robbed of this and over a long enough period of time, it has to be impactful. 

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, I agree completely. Yeah, there's a price being paid for this psychically. Listen to may not seem like there's a direct relationship between a spike in anxiety or substance abuse or overdoses, by being cut off from people and scared all the time. Scared of this disease, but there is and the sooner they get the vaccine to the public, because that's it. We're at that point now, waiting for the vaccine. The better because we're paying an enormous price for this psychologically.

Fergie Carey 

So right next to Fergie's pub is a medical marijuana dispensary called Beyond Hello. And they have to go so they are an essential business because they're in their medical marijuana research. So Fergie's Pub and all our places are shut down during the lockdown. But like you can still buy the weed next door like so my joke was like, after all these years weed won. Alcohol was okay. Drugs are bad. Now. It's like, alcohol is bad, but you can get your weed. Now, the weekend before I saw the long line outside the medical marijuana dispensary, and, I said, oh, did they change their regulations? Are they having a sale and I talked to one of the guys, I should know, everybody's just nervous and it'll be shut down again, everybody is anxious about what's gonna happen with society after this election. So it was like, oh, we're gonna get a weed now because we need it. You know, it was like, I recently saw what you're talking about? 

Steve Martorano 

I know exactly what you mean. I was going down the turnpike recently. And the digital sign announced that the medical marijuana dispensary, I forget what town would be open. And you could get a curbside pickup, you know, so I got home. I said to my wife. It's amazing. The marijuana, which is now you know, legal is back being sold out on the corner, just where it was when we used to buy it when it was illegal. So I mean, nothing ever changes. Yeah.

Fergie Carey 

Yeah, but it's rich white now.

Steve Martorano 

Of course.

Fergie Carey 

Oh, let's get it. You know you think of government again, like, oh, gambling is illegal. Like, unless we do it with the lottery. If you do a lot of you do a lottery type thing. That's illegal. Well, oh, let us do it and make money.

Steve Martorano 

Always important to choose your partner wisely. Let me ask you something. Here's the hard question at the sort of end of this thing.

Steve Martorano 

What's gonna happen right now, for you guys. Patrick, you have responsibility for a bunch of operations. Fergie your places. What would have to happen in the next couple of days or weeks? Did you get Congress fighting about a stimulus package? What do you guys need to make it through the next I don't know three, four months of darkness?

Fergie Carey 

Money in our bank accounts.

Patrick Iselin 

Money. 

Fergie Carey 

Yeah, another PPP. 

Patrick Iselin 

Yeah, another round of PPP. 

Patrick Iselin 

We don't need loans. No, we have with our PPP, we got our loans. We need the money and more money and we need forgiveness. You know, we want to make sure like that when this PPP all comes to an end, whatever. It's like, oh, now Well, you're forgiven for that. But you still have this tax implication of getting. So you now you owe $30,000 that's how it's looking right now. 

Steve Martorano 

There's something hopeful coming out of Washington. And that can be said without falling down laughing. They've got a big bill there. They've got some people that want to talk. We're in a desperate race for time. I know you guys...

Patrick Iselin 

I mean not to beat a dead horse or completely reiterate what he just said. But it just has to be money we talked about earlier about restaurants that haven't survived. Many of those some of them came as a surprise. Some of them didn't. I think people that were operating restaurants that were not doing particularly well prior to this, and came into this, we were very for speaking for myself very fortunate to come into this situation with no debt whatsoever. We're leaving with a shitload of it. Now, these are landlords, all of whom have kindly deferred rent not forgiven a nickel of it, though. So we're just racking up a bill at this point. We need somebody to come in and help us out with that. We need operating capital for the next few weeks months, until we're told that we can safely operate and we're allowed to operate. But to Fergie's point, we don't need loans anymore. low-interest loans. We're already swimming in debt that we've just picked up over this time period. We need gifts a bonified handout bailout, call it what you will financially help to get us over what we hope is the last remaining hump through into the spring there. But plain and simple cash on the barrelhead

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, the answer to all our questions is always money. Well, guys, I appreciate your time so much. I wish we're all in...it's a cliche, we are in this together, you are in a little deeper, I understand that. We need you desperately as badly as you need your businesses back. Fergie Carey, Patrick Iselin I would be remiss if I didn't take the opportunity to point out that the only reason I know these two guys, and they I is that we intersected a fella by the name of Bryan Dilworth. And this is my first opportunity to say this. He's a great friend of a lot of people in this town. He passed away unexpectedly a while back. But it's remarkable that he brought...this is what I cherish most about him. He was a great guy. Everybody loved him. But he introduced me to interesting people, good people, and I will forever be in his debt. I just wanted to mention that.

Fergie Carey 

I would just like to point out like, Bryan was big in the music booking business. 

Steve Martorano 

Yes, he was.

Fergie Carey 

Also in bars and restaurants about of course he loved to eat and drink. He died, I believe was March 9, or 11th. One friend joked who said like Bryan Dilworth dies and the music stops.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah. Again, short.

Fergie Carey 

And all and then like, the bars are closed. I mean, Bryan was a great guy, a close, close friend to all of us.

Patrick Iselin 

One of my greatest friends, a legendary person in many regards. And I will say this, the greatest connector of people I've ever met

Steve Martorano 

Without a doubt. 

Patrick Iselin 

Yeah. And you want to talk about mental health and well-being and social interaction for a famously grumpy guy. He was on by an order of magnitude. The most sort of intrinsically connected and understanding of the human condition and the ability to put people and matchmaking is poorly missed. 

Steve Martorano 

It was with great grace. He never looked like he was doing it never appeared like let's put this guy with the other with that guy never did that. It was he had the lightest touch in the world. And I once said to him, and I still mean it. He was a prince of the city. Amazing.

Fergie Carey 

He is who he is hanging out with him and his phone rings and it says son Riley, and then the phone rings again, and that's the district attorney and his phone rings again, and it's one of the Eagles are somebody in the music business. And then we did manage it was just before shutdown and when he died on a Monday and then his wife said, why don't we all just need a Garage Fishtown one of Patrick's places tonight at eight o'clock and if we could gather then and we did and it's so necessary and like like the rest of what we're all talking about it this podcast, but like the social interaction but for grieving, it is so netlike funeral so for the living, and we actually we did have a get together for him that night and that was important. And like we were all stunned as he died suddenly we found out on Monday morning and we are like, we're close friends and we're all like in shock. And I'm standing there at Garage in Fishtown and then, like, I'm stunned and then this big guy comes in and gives me a hug. Because he knows I'm closer to Bryan. And I realize it's Connor Barwin of the Eagles. 

Fergie Carey 

Yeah, yeah. I do want to mention I still can't. I still can't delete his. His name from my phone contacts.

Patrick Iselin 

It's still in my favorites.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, right. Okay, guys, listen, we can talk about this a lot. When? When the cloud lifts and all back up and operating. We'll do this again. Yeah, it's been a real pleasure for me. I thank you. Good luck, guys.

Fergie Carey 

Oh, thanks, Steve.

Patrick Iselin 

Thank you very much, Steve.

Steve Martorano 

Take care. Bye. Bye.

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