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Ep. 3 - Bruce Warren
May 29, 2020
Bruce Warren has loved music ever since he can remember. He also believes in his soul that music can heal. As program director for Philadelphia's WXPN Bruce has the additional responsibility to share his passion with thousands of like-minded music lovers.
Bruce is hanging with us on the Corner with his sharp insights on music in general and the power to bring us together.
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Episode 3 - Bruce Warren Interview Transcript
Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano. And this is the Behavioral Corner, you're invited to hang with us, because we've discussed the ways we live today, the choices we make, the things we do, and how they affect our health and wellbeing. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner, please hang around a while.
So I thought I would begin with a pithy quote that always comes in handy and the one that comes to mind for what we're hanging and talking about today is "Music has charms to soothe a savage breast." That's right, the breast, not the beast, although probably works both ways. That quote, couldn't possibly be more applicable right now in the history of this country. So we're going to take a look about how much truth there is and what music's effect is on us, our spiritual or emotional well being by going to the experts - an old friend of mine, Bruce Warren joins us. Bruce has for the past couple of decades presided over one of the country's most preeminent noncommercial radio stations licensed to the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. Bruce programs WXPN. He is also the executive producer of one of their flagship syndicated programs been on the air for many, many years. I'm sure you've heard it, the World Cafe. He's born and raised in Philly graduated. Proud Temple U Grad even has a fancy master's degree from the University of Pennsylvania which makes him an ivy leaguer (He) teaches at both those universities in media and communications and something called organizational dynamics. I can't wait to find out what that is. He is an award-winning programmer, music industry person and we'll find out all about that straight ahead. He has one note parenthetically to his resume, which is that Bruce Springsteen is his favorite musician, which means he taking a very bold and risky choice there. Hi, Bruce. How you doing?
I'm good, Steve, how you doing? Hey, thanks for inviting me to chat today.
No, thank you for your time. I mean, my goodness, talk about sticking your neck out with Springsteen. Good God. Oh my God, anyway.
Well, you know, it's true. You know, dude, listen, you know, you and I both sort of grew up, you know, during the glory days of Bruce right? Oh, yeah. And growing up in Philly, you know, Bruce, Bruce was the guy. Right? So there you go.
Yeah, yeah, he's no more -- he's no place else "The Boss" more than he is in Philadelphia. Anyway, so you heard the quote - a very old quote. It's interesting. Now, as we sit here doing this, the country has been convulsed by kind of violent anger and rage in fact that we haven't seen in a very, very long time. It all occurs as we know because of another. Another African American who dies in police custody and the explosion has been just terrifying, heartbreaking, and set against the backdrop of a pandemic, just in case you're wondering what was missing. So it's an unbelievably turbulent time to be programming music and we want to talk to Bruce about that. So you are acutely aware of what's going on, you have a certain responsibility, big responsibility to program for people tell us about XPS listeners. So, who are they?
Who are the listeners?
Yeah.
Well, they - they are people who are, you know, listeners to radio that are musically curious, you know, people who, you know, Steve, there's like, I tell the story often. I'm 61 my sister's a year younger than me. You know, when I graduated from college in the late 70s. My musical tastes continue to evolve. When she graduated from college in 1980. Her musical tastes didn't evolve and that's not a criticism of my sister. But you know, there are some people who, you know, they fall in love with what they fall in love with during high school, and that's the extent of their musical interests, right? Despite the fact that all this amazing new music is always coming out. Well, we appeal to the people who continue to evolve and continue to love music and continue to love music discovery, and that's really at the heart of who our audience is. These are people who will, I guess, sometimes still go to the record store and buy new records, right, because those record stores still do exist. But you know, they're, they're the people who would go to, you know, Sam Goody, or, you know, whatever record store that you used to buy your records at, and, you know, look at all the new releases and add them to their collection. So that's sort of what we do. You know, we are 'XPN as you're familiar with it, you know, we still play a fair amount of heritage artists, not just their classic work, but a lot of their new releases. But there's a whole world of new musicians out there that are making great music -- that are touring consistently. Well not during this time now, but who, you know are appealing to many, many, many people and they are they do not have a commercial radio home. A good example is a band like Phish or a band like My Morning Jacket or a band like Wilco. There are hundreds of great artists and you know we play many of them here on the radio station along with the heritage stuff. So as you guys have always made abundantly clear the total about the music now.
I can completely concur with that. But we are in a unique situation now. What has programming the radio station during as I said, both a pandemic and now terrible, terrible civil strife. Dundee are your duties as a programmer? What are you conscious of now? What are you doing differently?
Well, we're very conscious about bringing comfort and solace to people. You know, the 24/7 news cycle can get exhausting. You know, when you play a song, like Respect Yourself by the Staple Singers, one would hope
that is music that calms the savage beast, as they say, right? It's, you know, we want people to be able to reflect, we want people to come to WXPN and sort of like, let the music take their minds off of the insanity of the moment that we're in. And we made an immediate shift. As soon as the lockdown began, we made an immediate shift towards that, you know, I call it the comfort zone, right? You know, we sat down with all of our DJs and all of our producers and said, "Listen, we're here for people to get away from the insanity of what's happening in the world right now." But to also use it as a moment of reflection. As you know, music gets you through really good times and music can get really bad times, and the notion that you know, music can be healing is more relevant than ever before. So that's how we shifted and we continue to make that shift every day. You know, the one amazing part about being alive and local is that our DJs wake up in the morning and they take the pulse of the world. And they come in, and they sort of reflect that in their musical choices.
Nevertheless, very often, I mean, the last time I can remember situations like this, and you can as well, a little younger than I am, but that was during both the civil rights in the anti-war movement. The music in those days was anything but palliative. Sure, there was a lot of melodic and soft and pleasant, great music that was made during that period. But there was also a heavy message going on in that music. How do you see the message portion of music when we have extraordinary events that are impossible to ignore?
Well, you know, I think don't avoid playing records like you know What's Going On, you know, as old as that album is it's still probably as relevant today as it was when it was released back in the day. There, believe it or not, there are a lot of new artists that are making great music, whose lyrics sort of reflecting sort of what's going on today. I recently made a Spotify playlist. It's called Respect Express Yourself, you know, and I put songs like The Times They Are A-Changin' by Bob Dylan. But I also put on songs like Nina Cried Power that features Mavis Staples, that's by a guy named Hozier. You know, I think about a song by Beyonce, who collaborated with Kendrick Lamar, who's incredible rapper song called Freedom from Lemonade that came out, you know, a couple of years back, Nina Simone, you know, these are all songs that like reflects the moment that you're in, speak to race relations, speak to any qualities across the board. You know, we play them, I think sometimes is a sign of protest, but also as a sign of solidarity. Right? Because I think for the most part, many of us are economically challenged, right? And financially challenged?
Oh, yeah.
All right. So I think we can, we can all feel a little bit of sadness, but also maybe even some optimism. You know, one of the things we've been hearing a lot from our listeners is how, like an older song, take on new meaning in the current climate, you may hear a song, like, I wish I knew How it Would Feel to be free by Nina Simone out of the context of the current environment. But when you hear it at the moment, it just takes on new meaning. That's part of the healing process.
You know, the other thing is that it connects in a way through the ages that remind people that whatever the problems are today, they've been problems in the past. I'm thinking of Simone. I mean, how long ago did she do? Strange Fruit. That problem is still with us. So it does connect. I mean, a lot of people can go out there. People they play records and there's you know, there's turmoil and there's a disease and everything. I mean, you seem to be dedicated to the notion that music's got to be kept -- n order for it to be relevant and meaningful -- it's got to be kept somewhat contemporary and a mix of old and new but otherwise music becomes just like music stuff you hear in an elevator.
Yes, it shouldn't, you know, it shouldn't be a commodity you know, to your point. I think that's right. So you know when you hear a song like and if you familiar with the song Wake Up by Arcade Fire, you know, Arcade Fire's Wake Up was covered by John Legend and The Roots on an album they put out I don't know x number of years ago. It's contemporary, you know, take on that song. But on the same album, John Legend and The Roots also included a version of Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes Wake Up Everybody. You know, when you think about, like, personal responsibility around this, this is the time right? It's, you know, it's it's so turbulent. And you could be paralyzed, right? Like, so what can I do to make a difference? Right? What can I do to make a difference? Well, there's a lot of things you can do to make a difference. But you first have to recognize that you have the opportunity to do something. And when you hear a song, like what have I done to help, and someone sings that and put it in their words, that has a lot of personal value and a lot of personal meaning. And ideally, it will inspire you to make a difference in the world. So even if it's your own little local community and...
So you're acutely aware of the responsibility you have I mean, you're like putting together a monster mixtape for thousands of people in your in your in your hometown, and you're having a you can have a real impact on on their behavior. So let me ask you, there are a lot of stakeholders in a radio station, any radio station, but there are a lot of stakeholders and a lot of constituencies that you have to serve. I mean the artists, certainly, the audience, of course, the record companies in the music business, how do you balance all those? I mean, it's funny, you mentioned, you know, music shouldn't be a commodity. It's a question I have in the margins of my notes here. Is music a commodity? I know you said it isn't. But we know it is. So how do you balance those stakeholders? They don't all have the same needs, right? artists, audiences, and business. How do you balance all that and, and make it beneficial for people?
Yeah, well, you know, our mission here at WXPN is is primarily to two stakeholders involved, our mission is to connect artists with audiences. Right? Those are the only two things that matter. I don't care about the record business. I don't care about the music industry. I mean, I do, you know, you know, it's a business, right. We operate in the business, I'm very aware of that. But the music industry, the music business isn't a stakeholder, you know, our stakeholders are the artists who make the music and the audience that, you know, thrive because of that and quite honestly, you know, it's all about the audience. You know, it's all about, you know, giving them what they want music discovery is ultimately at the heart of that. The other thing is, as you know, you know, who is a listener-supported radio station? You know, the bulk of our revenue comes from listeners, making donations to WXPN right. It's Public Radio, just like public TV, you know, you join your local PBS affiliate, you know, so we must do the best that we can to super-serve our core listeners with the music that they want to hear because they're the ones who give us $75 a year or $125 a year and who donate to the value. You know, the value proposition is, you know, music discovery, it'll improve their lives. And that's ultimately what we really like we super focus on that here WXPN.
Bruce Warren is the program director WXPN as I said, that is a University of Pennsylvania's non-commercial radio station and -- 20 years now at the helm of that, that radio station. So Bruce, let me ask you about the listener, again, seemed to have a really good handle on who they are. In the 20 years, you program the place, take a minute and tell me how they've changed, have they? Have they changed what they want, or they've been pretty steady? It's been pretty steady. Do you know?
What's changed is the music distribution and access to music. That's what's changed pretty significantly, you know, look, our audiences primarily 25 to like 65 years old. Right? You know, we have a fair amount of boomers who listen to the radio station. But over the last year or two years, we have had a pretty significant increase. In the younger audiences, listening to WXPN, I think we've reflected that, that diversity, because the music, you know, there's so much more music available now, you know, the traditional world of radio, where it used to be, you know, record companies have a record, record sales would determine sometimes what gets played on radio stations, there's no record, you know, there are record sales, but they're not in the same way that they've traditionally been. So, on any given day, myself, or one of my folks here, who, in the programming team, we could go online, and we can be introduced to like 20 new records, without the support of industry, right. These are just musicians doing their thing, put the music out there. And, you know, trends come and go. But I think, for the most part, we're looking for music that will connect new music that will connect our audience regardless of their age to sort of like the heritage, traditional singers and songwriters that made music in the 60s and 70s. You know, that's not to say, you know, we play a heck of a lot of R&B, and we play a lot of soul music, and we play reggae and we play folk music. So we have a much broader palette to choose from musically. So I would say some of the audience is aging out. We're bringing a whole lot of new young listeners into our station, but it's the music that's changed the most.
Yeah, I know, the aging out thing can be a problem. that some of that myself, we're hanging on the corner with Bruce Warren. He's one of the preeminent radio programmers in the nation at his radio station WXPN in Philadelphia. And we're talking about how do you do that against the turmoil of the world we're living in right now with epidemics and violence in the streets and partisan politics sometimes tearing us apart.
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Let me ask you, Bruce, you're not a musician? Right?
I used to be. Technically No.
Okay, well, so then when did you decide that music was so important? You'd make a life of it. What was it was it was it?
Well, you know, I tell the story frequently. I you know, I was one of those kids who went to bed every night with the transistor under his pillow, right. So, music was always part of my DNA from a very young age. I went through a couple of career changes. You know, I graduated Temple, taught elementary school for virtual well didn't like it got into the restaurant business. Then I sort of dabbled in freelance music writing, and it was through my freelance music writing, that I met a guy who was a student music director at the University of Penn here because they owned WXPN. And we became friends. He was in a local band, and he asked me if I wanted to be on the radio, do a DJ shift overnight. And I was like, heck yeah, come on, I'll do that. And Steve, it was like that first night I was on-the-air. I was a volunteer for like, two years or so. But that first night I was on the air here. I was like, I gotta figure out a way to get paid for this. And, and that was, you know, many years ago.
Well, I know that feeling because I mean, you know, I've been in broadcasting 150 years now done luckily to do a bunch of different things. But I began playing records, it's the same feeling I remember, they're gonna pay me to do this. Yeah, this is outrageous. This is just amazing.
Let me just jump in here for a second because I want to touch base on where you came from, in, you know, on the music side of the broadcasting. You know, I grew up in Philadelphia, I was 10 years old in 1968. My entry into quote-unquote, free form. FM radio was through WMMR here in Philadelphia, which was at the time for those of your listeners who don't know this at the time was one of the, you know, top premier free form radio stations. Right. And what that meant is completely tied to what I do right now, which is as a WMMR back in the day, 'NEW in New York City back in the day, probably, you know, San Francisco station back in the day. I think it was KSAN case. And I think it was. Those stations spoke to people who were musically curious and had a wide, broad openness to hearing many different styles of music. So I think like what I'm doing now is connected to that time. The other thing is, back in the day, WMMR was I'll go even further back WFIL and WIBG. To great am stations here in Philadelphia, and then WMMR, WDAS in Philadelphia, we're completely connected to the local community, you know, to the end music has an impact in the community that you're growing up in, and influencing and impacting and giving to and taking from, that had a very strong influence over me as a programmer. And as a guy who, you know, works with a great team here to program a radio station that I think is crucial to the local community. And the fact that you know, we can provide solace and comfort and perhaps even healing through great music to build a strong community. That is the bottom line.
Well, you know, you know, it's, it's, it's cool that you've been able to take that ethic that began you know, long time ago, about connecting to the audience and giving them solace, and sometimes direction and, you know, and building community and keep that ethic alive. It's more if you don't do that in the communications business, no matter what your communication businesses, then you really, probably wasting everybody's time. And it's good that that's still alive in a place. You know, like 'XPN. Again, I mean, I'm struck by the similarities between what you know, you know what your mandate is now, during this current moment in our country's history and what and what we faced a long, long time ago, you know, to make that connection. It's lots of people think that they're in, in your business. Lots of people think that they're like in the music business or something. You're really not. You're in the communications business.
Yeah, totally. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. I see you also, you also do a little teaching, which I'm curious about. You teach Communications at a Temple, right?
Yeah.
You look at these young people. And the first thing you probably aware of I know you're aware of it is that when they walk into the classroom, they can be carrying with them 10,000 songs. It's in their knapsack, and they've been drenched in media, you know, drenched in it, so what are they looking to do as communicators?
That's a really good question. I think most of them want to become Instagram or TikTok i stars, you know. But no, we're all kidding aside. Some of them do. So I've been teaching at Temple now for a year. And what I'm finding is that a good chunk of the undergrads that are in my class are very serious about creating great content with some level of responsibility producing, you know, journalism, believe it or not, is a very important part of many students. You know, personal ethics. And, you know, despite the current administration's bashing of journalists, and I think most of the students that I've come across at Temple are very optimistic about journalism, and how that works in media. They're good for them. I mean, they...
The spirit of journalism I don't think will ever die. It's the business of journalism. We're worried about it. Let me ask you about TikTok. Okay. I mean, I have seen TikTok, I understand the hypnotic and addictive nature to it. I can make you laugh, like, like crazy. But the idea that someone would aspire to that, I think, don't you just fall into the ability to that? Do people think, they can study up and get good at that? I don't even understand.
I do believe that. I mean, listen, you know, the music industry right now. Many of the folks I know who are signing bands right now are spending a good chunk of their days on TikTok looking for the next big star. You know, I don't know whether I feel good about that. I guess you never know. I mean, I don't feel good about it at all. Yeah, you know, I mean, look, that goes back to sort of like the point about like, is music a commodity? I'd love social media, okay, everybody knows I'm a big user, I get it. I'm on it. I was there at the very beginning. But I think this, you know, short attention span virality. When something goes viral, you have to understand what that means and the impact it has on people and the community. It could be either a commodity short term, or it could be, you know, influential and meaningful, which is long term. And you know, I joke about this all the time. I don't joke about this all the time with my kids, right? I have 2 twenty-year-old kids, one's 21, one's 23. They always, you know, make fun of me because I'm still listening to Bruce Springsteen, who put records out in 1980 in 1979. And, and I keep saying to them, Well, listen, I may not be around in 30 years, but I hope that the artists you guys are digging now will have the same kind of influence on popular culture that Bruce Springsteen and Jackson Browne and Joni Mitchell and Dylan and The Clash, Elvis Costello had and Billy Joel had on on my generation and continues to have, you know, impact. And you know, look, I'm a snob I have the great pleasure of living through five decades, six decades of music. So I have a lot of to my belt. And it's easy for me to get cynical, but I'm not. I'm still a huge music fan. And I try to look at the current landscape as open-minded as possible. You know, I'm not so sure. Yeah, I don't think the voice of the generation is gonna come out of it. Instagram account, but anyway, might who knows what do I know? No, but listen, no, but let me interrupt you for a second. There aren't voices of a generation now that are having passed, and I want to call out a guy named Kendrick Lamar, who was a rapper, you know, I think he's probably one of the most important artists of the last decade, having a huge impact on culture on culture, and popular culture and have a huge impact on not just the African American communities, but on communities of color. You asked me about, like what's changing a little bit and me, I neglected to bring this point up. It's like, Listen, we live in a really diverse world. Right. And I think it's part of our responsibility WPN to reflect that diversity as best as we can. So, again, music's changing, you know, a lot of diverse communities of artists making great, great music. And I think we're able to play some of that music because we're a noncommercial radio station. I think that gives us the ability to have more impact on our community.
Well, you know what, that's primarily what we wanted to talk to you about. And that's the connection you're making with the community through music. We're not certainly the first people to mention that music has an actual therapeutic value. We can't imagine a world without music, so, let me ask you a question about like your Air Staff, you know, we've already covered that music has is multi-faceted it consumed it can arouse, it can inspire, it can do a lot of things about your air people. They're very, they're very focused on what they're doing. They managed to do all that stuff without stepping outside of like, something like an 'XPN and comfort zone. Can you imagine a situation where one of your people actually, said something more direct? About how they feel about something other than the music? Would that bother you? Is that a problem?
It's not a problem. I think we, you know, we talk about it, we find ways to connect with people up to a point about our own, you know, personal, you know, realities around it. You know, we stand clear politics. You know, I don't care what, you know what, you know, whether you're blue or you're red. You can't help but feel anger around what's happened. You know, over the last week, you know, during this time, the pandemic doesn't know politics, you know. So I think, you know, when I hear our morning show host, Kristen Kurtis, talk about how concerned she is about the health and safety of our audience. I think our listeners want to hear that, you know, our DJs talk about that kind of stuff. Some talk about it more, some talk about it, less pushback on this political thing for a second...
I hear you. You don't give those people four hours, three hours a day, to open a mic and stand on a soapbox and pontificate I get it. And that's a smart move, because you're right. It's a very divisive time. So in a sense, you're saying music can transcend politics? Is that right? Is that what you believe?
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Music, Let the music do the talking. You know, like, put it out there for people to reflect about, like, you know, first we're a music station, Steve, you know, it's like, people don't, you know, they don't want to hear us talk, you know, they want us to play the music, they want us to guide them through this incredible period of either turmoil or happiness, whether it's, you know, the pandemic, whether it's riots, or again, it's a, it's the worst comparison in the world, or whether it's the Eagles winning the Super Bowl, right does the feeling of happiness, the feeling of complete sadness, and anger, music, weaves through all of these things. And it allows you as a listener, to sort of reflect and to make your own decisions about how you should feel and how you should think. And I think that's the most powerful thing that we can do.
How do you feel when musicians of whatever political persuasion, get their feathers ruffled and demand that some political organization or candidate stop using their music? Is that something you think is justified or is something they ought not to get involved in?
I think it's justified. You know, it's your art, it's your work. It's your intellectual property. And if your intellectual property is being leveraged and exploited by someone or something that represents a clause that you don't agree with, then you have an absolute right to tell these those people to not use your song.
Yeah, I'm thinking about Springsteen's born in the USA, which, if you recall, was used prominently by the Reagan administration. Yeah, in a far less polarized environment. But I don't think that Bruce publicly objected, but he certainly Let it be known that they have hidden this the point of that song by using it as a kind of flag-waving, you know, Oh, do you know the United States?
Yeah, you know what, I hear you, people are gonna miss the point. You know what, and that's my point. People are gonna miss the point that John Lennon's Imagine, for Christ's sake, you know, I mean, I have been on the other end of phone calls from listeners about songs that will play the most benign songs were they're up in arms and I'm like, relax, you know, come on. I didn't write the song. But I'm glad you were so moved to think this is what it means, right? You know, you know whether that's a political song, or whether it's a misogynistic song like brown sugar by the Rolling Stones, I mean, you know, people are going to interpret what they want to interpret. That doesn't mean you know, we'll stop playing a particular song, there were things that we just don't play. You don't miss what you don't hear on the radio, right? But artists have the absolute right to tell any entity not to play their song.
Let me ask you about that red line. I won't ask you to name x or tracks or any of that. But what is that bright line? We won't play that we don't play that. Is there a rule of thumb or do you know when you hear it?
I think you know when you hear it.
Yeah, cuz it's a bit as a programmer, it's a bad place to start out. We don't play this. Well, it only seems to me that if you're going to be a really good programmer, you begin with will play everything unless of course, we don't.
Yeah, I look at it, I look at it as like, what would our audience think?
But you just said your audience's level to be of several minds about it. You have to be one mind about it when it comes to saying we don't play that, except for the obvious songs.
You know, look, listen, I'm going to go here now. Right? I'm a huge rap fan. Okay. During the last election cycle, a day didn't go by when I was when i didn't listen to Ice Cube's America's Most Wanted. Okay, which is one of the most incendiary, politically intense records of all time, right? It gave me hope. It got me angry. It allowed me to work through my issues around what was happening and the political situation at the time. I wouldn't play that on the on WXPN now because our audience wouldn't don't want to hear that.
You know, what do you believe, as a programmer that there's the stuff that an audience should hear whether they like it or not?
Well, I think there's a point. You know, I think there's a point, you know, and this is this is a hard conversation we've had, we have conversations like this, we get records, we get records, you know, and we sit and talk about it. Yeah, it is. It is the central not the central purpose of it, but is it is a major dilemma. never listen, when everything's okay. And it's morning in America play, you know, these considerations are not a factor. But when people are dying of a deadly disease that's spreading like wildfire and, and, you know, injustices go on routinely, and then violence breaks out. Those issues of playing stuff that maybe might be unpopular are going to will rise. I just know Yeah.
Again, I want to go back to this notion of, you know, solace, comfort and healing, right, solace, comfort, and healing. And you know, that's the lens like, and again, it's all very subjective. But like, on any given moment on WXPN, whether it's messed up times or not, is what we're doing providing comfort and solace and healing, particularly during times like this to our community.
Yeah. You know what, man, I think that's a great hill to plant your flag on, no matter. I mean, at the end of the day, you're right. I mean, that is, you could pick any position and defend it, but you guys have chosen I mean...
Listen, I'm sure as hell ain't going to play Eff the Police by NWA right now on the radio, whether it's my audience wants it or not. No, I'm telling you right now.
That's part of, you know, common sense and...
I'm sorry, I love NWA and I love it. I love Ice Cube but I ain't going there. Can I just say one more thing? Can I just tell you one other...
Yes.
...because it speaks to the music healing. Yes. Oh, God, I don't know about seven or eight years ago maybe longer. WXPN began working with a national organization called musicians on call and what we do is we work with local musicians here in Philadelphia. And we take musicians into hospitals, to the bedsides of patients, and we sing to them. And it is one of the most incredible programs that we've ever been involved with as far as the community. Right now we're up to like, I think 10 hospitals in the area. But to see the impact of has when a guy like Amos Lee, who is a, you know, a pretty well-known musician, from Philadelphia when you see him walk into a hospital room of a terminally ill patient to sing either one of his songs or a cover song to see the patient impact that has on the patient's mood. You know, you could see the physical, the visceralness of how the how music heals. It's like instant. It's instantaneous. And I just wanted to give a shout out for that because I think that speaks to one another way that WXPN kind of, you know, serves the community with music through music to make a difference.
Yeah. And it speaks of course, where we began with the charms that music has. Hey, Bruce, thanks for hanging with us on the corner. I really appreciate it and hope we can get back to the studio pretty soon. I hear you on Saturdays. I love the show.
Yeah, well, thanks a lot for having me. And by the way, I got to make sure my mom knows when this runs because your introduction of me is like the best introduction I've ever gotten. And now she could actually when she hears that, maybe she'll go like, Oh, now I know what he does.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I know that conversation.
You know what? She should just look for us right now on the behavioralcorner.com? Well, it won't be up there yet, but it'll be there. But that's the that's the website behavioral corner.com. Hey, Bruce. Thanks a lot, man.
Thanks, man. Appreciate it.
That's it for now. And make us a habit hanging out at the Behavioral Corner. And when we're not hanging, follow us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, on the Behavioral Corner.
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