The Behavioral Corner 

Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano. And this is the Behavioral Corner, you're invited to hang with us as we discuss the ways we live today, the choices we make, the things we do, and how they affect our health and well-being. So you're on the Corner, the Behavioral Corner, please hang around a while.

Steve Martorano 

Hey, everybody. Hi, and welcome to the Behavioral Corner. My name is Steve Martorano., and spring is right around the corner. So hanging on the corner will get easier. It's been very cold on the Behavioral Corner. I think we're setting the clocks back one of these weekends we'll cooler forward when we do. So yes, strings coming in. We're playing baseball somewhere in the world where it's not snowing. So we're all up and happy here on the Corner. Even though we talk about very serious stuff, the whole shoot match, of course, you hope you know by now underwritten by our great partners Retreat Behavioral Health, about which more a little bit later, we always wanted to great people. That's why we like to hang on a busy corner. People come in and out and they're fascinating folks, we sort of pigeonhole or what is the word buttonhole them and make them hang around and talk to us a little bit. Our guest today joins us for a number of really exciting and valuable reasons. She is herself in long-term recovery, we'll find out about that. As a result of that, her life is now more or less dedicated to passionate advocacy for recovery and recovery treatment centers. And naturally being a woman she has a particular interest in women in that context, not least of which our guest is with us because of her name, which is one of the great names I've ever heard. So say hello to Nikki Soda. Hi, Nikki.

Nikki Soda 

Hi, Steve, thank you so much for having me be on the show or sincerely appreciate it.

Steve Martorano 

Has that always been your last name, Soda?

Nikki Soda 

No, but I have to say my maiden name is Stock and which I think equally good.

Steve Martorano 

Soda's very cool everybody that I tell I'm interviewing someone named Nikki Soda they go she in a rock band?

Nikki Soda 

So we named our daughter Harper Soda because we just feel like that's the name and setting her up for greatness.

The Behavioral Corner 

Show business looms large. Nikki is the Director of Business Development and Marketing for an organization called the National Association of Addiction Treatment Providers. It's an important job, she probably is a foremost expert in those facilities and what they do and what you know, you should be aware of what they do when choosing a treatment center, all of what she's going to share with us on the Corner today. So Nikki, let's begin with your story. Seventeen years you told me before we went on there, 17 years in recovery. Congratulations.

Nikki Soda 

Thank you so much. It's almost 17. So my sobriety date is April 4, 2004. So 17 years right around the corner. And I'd be happy to share a little bit about how it was what it was like and what it's like now if you'd like.

Steve Martorano 

We'd love to hear that story.

Nikki Soda 

I really don't have a very unique story, so to speak. And I'm from Missouri, raised in a middle-class family, Neither of my parents are alcoholics, and there's no abuse in my family there. And so it's one of those things that kind of when I share my story, sometimes people think, oh, how the heck are you here and I, I firmly believe that this is a genetic disease. And it skipped a generation for me. The first time that I drank, I blacked out. I am an athlete. And sports is a huge part of my story. I played very competitive basketball. I went to state three out of four years in high school. And it was with my basketball team that I first drank and we were a very straight-laced team. I had to transfer schools and the first time that I drank, I didn't know what to drink. And the point guard who was next to me said I want to drink vodka. And I said I'll do the same just to fit in and ended up blacking out my first time that I drank. But what happened the next morning is when I woke up the girls said Nikki, you were so much fun. And I didn't remember anything. But I felt cool. I felt popular and I fit in.

Steve Martorano 

And this is high school, Nikki.

Nikki Soda 

This is high school. Yeah,

Steve Martorano 

Yeah. Ten years ago, when I started doing these programs, I'm not in recovery myself, only mentioned that because among the many things I've learned is that the phrase "blackout drinking" doesn't mean unconscious and you fall down to the street. It means you just have no remembrance of what went on during the drinking. What's interesting about your story, although it's not the first time I've heard it, is the immediacy with which that happened to you. Did it scare you?

Nikki Soda 

No, it didn't. It didn't scare me. Yeah, that's crazy, right?

Steve Martorano 

I'm guessing it makes you sound colorful. Wow, Nikki was so whacked and you'd go "I guess. How about me? Right?

Nikki Soda 

That's exactly right. And what I found out too after that is that I had a very, very high tolerance, I could drink with the football boys and, and that continued through my drinking career. I went on to play college basketball. And what had started as just drinking during the offseason, only once I got into college carried over to, I was very regimented. And I got up every morning for eight o'clock classes, and never missed early morning classes or practices. And then once I got home, after study hall, would start drinking and Steve what drinking did for me is it made me feel pretty, it made me feel cool. And it made me feel like I could fit into any situation where I'm six feet tall. And so I have insecurity is walking in the room being the tallest person drinking made me feel like I could blend in more. And so it got to a point through my college career, were drinking and I started doing drugs too because drinking wasn't enough. That's all I wanted to do was to party. I didn't want to play ball anymore focus on school and so I took a year break much to my parent's dismay, I did have a full ride. And I moved to Florida when I was 21. And what I found is that I was putting myself in very scary situations, my drinking and drugging were consuming my life. And I did it every day. And it got to a point where my dad said, I can't talk or support you anymore. And my mom did the same time. So I was faced with making a decision, I went back to school, and I did graduate from college in 2002. But I was very much a functioning alcoholic. What I did, Steve is I was able to skirt away from a number of consequences. But I was miserable on the inside. So I'd wake up in the morning and by this time, I'm 22. I'd wake up in the morning, and I'd have this pit in my stomach of like, what did I do last night? I'm not going to do that again, I'm going to stop. And so I'd be holding the steering wheel drive into work and I would say I'm not going to do this again. And sure enough, come for 35 o'clock, when I start getting the invites for happy hour, I just couldn't turn it down and I have never in my seven years of drinking just had one drink. And so I would justify my drinking by saying well, I never drink alone. I'm always with people, I would try switching it up well. Okay, tequila makes me crazy. I'm just going to drink beer and none of those things worked. And so what it came to is, it came to me going to my boss and at work saying I have a problem. And what he told me is he said if you drink the same as I do, you don't have a problem. He's like, I don't know what you should do, go go to HR. HR is like, here's an EAP pamphlet, why don't you go home and figure it out. That began the trajectory of my journey, though. I went and, and found a counselor and then was diverted to a residential treatment center in Tampa, where I checked myself in on April 14, 2004.

Steve Martorano 

There are so many things in there, I'd like to focus on. First of all, you mentioned your family background. I think, hopefully, we're past the point of time when people think that substance abuse is some kind of class issue. I mean, if the opiate crisis had any upside, it opened our eyes to how indiscriminate substance abuse problems, are they anywhere, family backgrounds don't matter. economic conditions don't matter. This thing can strike anybody at any time. So I always say that stories of substance abuse and recovery are the same, except they're different. Right? We're getting that again to now. You're also an elite athlete. And I'm wondering, on two levels, you know, in the male context of elite athletes, there's a lot of pressure on you know, who's the toughest guy who can go hard? Who can do all that stuff? Isn't the same thing with women? Do women put that much pressure on each other to both conform, and live up to the group?

Nikki Soda 

Absolutely. So playing basketball, too. I was a forward. So there was a lot of pressure to be tough and be rough and but also to be a high performer. 

Steve Martorano 

Drinking was part of that tough thing, right? Hanging with the girls. Right?

Nikki Soda 

I'm an extremely competitive person. And I'm also a perfectionist. Those two things combined with alcoholism is...

Steve Martorano 

Boom.

Nikki Soda 

Boom is right. 

Steve Martorano 

Well, you know what I say that I don't want to scare anybody but lots of people, particularly young women, I think, are the parents of young women men too, of course, think you know what, there are too many dangers out there. I'll direct them towards athletics, and that'll be an outlet for them and they'll have their own group and they won't be hanging with the druggies and there's some danger there. You can't let your guard down because your kids you know, a hotshot athlete there's a lot of dangers in there.

Nikki Soda 

No, for sure there is. And you know, again, not to alarm any listeners, but there is an equal amount of dangers with over performance, or without professionalism that comes in to make you want to have to be perfect.

Steve Martorano 

Before we get to what happened in rehab for you, the final thing, in that description of yours was the fact that you were high functioning, high functioning, substance abusers have a double curse, in that they go longer and harder, and deny that to themselves that there's anything wrong. And no one else seems to think there's anything wrong. Well, you know, she's here does your job. Right? 

Nikki Soda 

Right. That's exactly right. And, and with basketball, too, and I remember my coach telling me one time, Nikki, you could be so much better, because I think he had an idea that I was partying a little more than I should. And so but I never missed class. I never missed practice. And so that's part of it. Like, yes, I was out till 3 am. But here I am. So...

Steve Martorano 

Yeah. People with substance use problems, don't need to scapegoat other people, that's for sure. Uh, you know, the only way you get sober you take responsibility for it. But in the context, you just described I often wonder, male or female athletes, whether or not some coaches, and they may be the greatest people in the world and well-intended, turned a blind eye to some of this stuff. Because after all, if she's playing, you know, why rock the boat?

Nikki Soda 

Yes, that's exactly correct. And, and I can only remember one time where I got pulled aside and saying, I think that there might be an issue from him. But you're exactly right. And you see it, you know, I played at a medium level at the high level is a whole different world. 

Steve Martorano 

Sure, sure. It is. Did you ever play while you were drinking? Where you were...

Nikki Soda 

I didn't. I say that. But if we had a Saturday game, there's no way that I wasn't still hungover from Friday.

Steve Martorano 

So you get yourself into that residential facility. How did it go for you did it take as it were in that first visit?

Nikki Soda 

It did. So there's a couple of things. First, when I got there, I sat outside on a bench. I sat outside for two hours, and I thought my life is over. I was 23 getting ready to turn 24 I had my birthday in treatment. And I thought I'm not going to be any fun anymore. No one is going to want to hang out with me. My life is over. But that hole that I mentioned before, was so freakin' big that I was like, eff it. I'm gonna give this a try because anything has got to be better than I'm feeling right now. And I had no idea what treatment even look like I was having dreams about being in a white padded room the night before I went in. And little did I know that was completely wrong. When I stepped inside, Steve, I was fortunate enough to have a counselor who, you know, told me a lot of the cliche things, but in a really kind, loving way. Like, Nikki, let's just take this one hour at a time. Let's take this one day at a time, I went to treatment for 28 days, I found a sponsor whose relapse was not a part of her story. I am an active member of a 12 step program in AA. So I found a sponsor who had 18 years of continuous sobriety. And what I did is I found these women's meetings with women that had long-term sobriety and surrounded myself with them early in recovery. Because to me, I was so scared about what would happen if I took another drink, that I was willing to do whatever it takes,

Steve Martorano 

There's no key to sobriety getting there. But there is some sort of touchstones that people have to hit. And one of those is this, if you can hold on to the idea of if I drink or do drugs, another time, it's going to be a problem. No matter how much I want to it'll be a problem. Hold on to that that gets you through that day, maybe you'll do better the next day, I certainly recognize that. I'm sorry, go ahead.

Nikki Soda 

I did want to say this. This comes to the competitor in me, I'm sitting in a group room. And there are 41 patients that are there and I'm at a co-ed treatment center. The counselor says of the 41 of you that are here, only two of you are going to make it and I swear to God, I was like, Well, I'm going to be one of those two people. Like there's no question about that. I remember that clear as day.

Steve Martorano 

That was my next question. To what extent did your athletic --- the DNA in your body -- the athletic DNA, say, I could do this?

Nikki Soda 

Absolutely. In my mind, too. I'm like, but not only am I going to kick this, I'm going to start getting healthy again. And so the competitor in me was like, Alright, let's go.

Steve Martorano 

Now you were very fortunate that a bunch of important things came together in your head simultaneously. Some people in recovery, don't find out about, you know, getting themselves healthy till much later in the process, because they're so concerned about never drinking or doing drugs again, it's important to keep everything in mind. So you did what 28 days and that was 17 years. Relapse? Any history of relapse? 

Nikki Soda 

No, I mean, not yet, and by the grace of God, there won't be because I truly I have this -- they call it the tape, right? So I have this tape in my head that says, Nikki, you've never drunk just once. So when that voice starts chipping in like, so Miller Lite was my drink of choice.

Steve Martorano 

A cheap date.

Nikki Soda 

Well, except I could drink a case and a half. The tape starts playing like Nicki, you have enough time. Now you have, you can have one Miller Lite. What my tape that's so important starts playing is, yeah, but if you have a Miller Lite, then you're going to have 10 more, and then you're going to start looking for drugs. And that's a big part of what keeps me so

Steve Martorano 

Well, that tape metaphor I've heard is great, because the term I am familiar with is called "euphoric recall." And that's when substance abusers sit around talking about, Oh, you think you got...you think you...I'll tell you about a time when...and the really sharp counselors listen. And then when the person stops, you know, you didn't finish the tape, finish the story, or you know, when you wound up in jail, or the car accident or so that tape is there? Just think that the memory of what this stuff was doing to you, winds up a tool, something you can use.

Nikki Soda 

Well, and I encourage when I sponsor women, I encourage them at the beginning to write down how they're feeling because it's so easy with time to forget. So easy. For me, it worked. And so I encourage my sponsees when I have them write down how you're feeling right now because, in six months, we're going to need to look back when you start thinking, Oh, it wasn't that bad. 

Steve Martorano 

It's a remarkable story for a number of reasons, not least of which is that you're one of those people who clicked for right away. You brought a lot of skills that made that possible. But you know, as well as it's a crapshoot when people go into treatment, I've talked to people who've been in and out of treatment, many, many times. The trick is to keep going. So it's an interesting story, all of which makes you pivot because I know you didn't start out as a young person wanting to become an advocate for substance abuse facilities. So tell me about that term towards your career.

Nikki Soda 

Sure. So my background, once I got sober, was in corporate and nonprofit meeting planning. And so I did a tremendous amount of traveling and doing logistics and all the meantime, participating in a 12 step program. And my husband is a therapist, and I was getting very envious of him being able to be around recovery all the time. And so I started volunteering with different places and recovery events. And then I found out that you could do this for a living, which I had no idea. So where the advocacy part, though comes in, is I'm an active member of the Junior League. And so about the same time that I got into the behavioral health field, I also became a member of Junior League, which is a women's organization that promotes volunteerism, that is where the advocacy part started, where we had a lobbyist, and I started learning about the legislative process and public policy. And the really cool thing is that this time, I start working for a wonderful treatment center in Colorado and I start blending the two and learning about how I can utilize the skills that I'm getting at Junior Lake through public policy to advocate for behavioral health issues that are going on. So then it becomes a trifecta, right? I have this corporate meeting planning experience, this public policy experience, and experience with recovery in the behavioral health field. And so I really start looking for ways that can be of help with creating positive change. And that really is kind of my motto right now is how can I create positive change? And so there's a number of different exciting ways that I've been working on that. But that's really how it started.

Steve Martorano 

How did this focus on women in this area come about I know you were telling me about a congressional action that took place?

Nikki Soda 

So I didn't realize this but Women's History Month. It has its origins as a national celebration that started in 1981, when Congress passed the joint resolution, saying that whereas American women of every race, class, and ethnic background helped form the nation in countless recorded and unrecorded ways and they should be recognized. And so that really is where it started back in 1981. And then from them, it has just progressed. And so this started, as I said, in 1981 and then we've had women's history week, and then it's just moved up and up to now it's Women's History Month. And different proclamations happen throughout the country. And they celebrate the contributions of what women have done in the United States and they recognize specific achievements that women have made over the course of American history.

Steve Martorano 

Whatever progress women make, and there's been a lot of it in my lifetime. It is such a relatively short period of time. When you think about it. I mean, the Equal Rights Amendment was in the 70s. The women didn't get the vote until the 20th century, I mean, so there's been a lot of movement and focus in a very short period of time. And it shouldn't surprise anybody that among the things that women's progress has focused on, obviously, their behavioral their mental, their physical health, and it's good to see all of that happening as well. Let's catch our breath here for a second on the Corner, maybe go over to the bodega and get an orange soda. And when we come back, I want to talk to you about what you've observed in the facilities that might present hurdles for women that are unique to their circumstances, being women and trying to get sober. We're on the Corner, that Behavior Corner. Stick around.

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Steve Martorano 

So Nikki, let me ask you right off the bat, I read somewhere last night doing some reading that women I don't know if it's true or not, but I read it, are women less likely to seek help than men? I read that and I thought, why is that?

Nikki Soda 

There are a number of reasons and what you read is true. One of the main ones is that women are the primary caregiver. And so whether it's with for their parents, their older parents, or their children, majority of the time, the women are carrying that and so they use that as a reason why they can't leave for treatment. When I did admissions for a number of years, that's always what I would hear well, I can't leave who is going to cook who's going to clean? Who's going to take care of everybody?

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, it's a manifestation of the old expression that when mama ain't happy, nobody's happy. And mama is most aware of that. Right? I gotta keep it together. Right? So they don't get help. That I guess, leads to the other phenomenon? I think it's I don't know that it's unique to women, but I think it's more prevalent, and that is this hiding of their drinking. Women are real, secret drinkers, aren't they?

Nikki Soda 

I mean, there's, there are men that are secret drinkers, too. But I, the statistics show that women are much more apt to, to drink at home alone, particularly the ones that have, you know, small children, and they need they want to hide it. But also, what you see a lot, and I hear a lot in meetings, Steve, is that middle-aged woman who is addicted to pills. And so that too is something that's really kept in secrecy so it's not a social activity.

Steve Martorano 

You know, what else it strikes me as an unfortunate form of female sexism. And by that, I mean, it's, in a sense, understandable that a man should be behaving like this. That's, you know, alcoholism and drug abuse, it's kind of manly behavior, but it's certainly nothing a woman should be involved in. So women have internalized that, right? Whether they're working consciously like that. But that's what I can't act like this. It's not ladylike.

Nikki Soda 

Unfortunately, that old-school thinking is still applied. And there's so much usage that is hidden. And I think that that too, is a barrier to why women don't get more help is like, this shouldn't be my problem,

Steve Martorano 

Right. I'm not that kind of woman. It's funny, because again when you compare this disease, which is what it is other diseases if you did that thinking with cancer or something, it sounds ridiculous. Your job is to advocate for and visit many, many facilities around the country. When someone and when this case, women, when a woman says as you did many years ago, I gotta get into a facility. Most of the time, they have no idea what that means. In your experience, what are a couple of the things women should know ahead of time, and the kinds of questions they should ask when they're looking for a facility?

Nikki Soda 

Sure, that's an excellent question. And so one of the things that I would look at first is where geographically where they are. So although it shouldn't be a barrier, if they're in California, perhaps looking at a place in New York isn't feasible due to what their family structure is. But that being said, sometimes it's best that they get as far away as possible. Yeah, so one of the things we look at its location. The other thing that we're looking at Steve, is that we would want to look at is, are there any other issues and you know, is there mental health issues that really need to be looked at to because that's one of the things which is more prevalent, Is the mental illness causing the substance abuse or vice versa? And so taking a look at that, to see which treatment center is the best dual diagnosis to be able to treat that. Another thing that's very high in women is eating disorders and so if there's an eating disorder that's present to does that need to be looked at? And then another thing that I feel is important, is it a women's only facility? If it is co-ed, how separated are the male and the female patients? And I look at it as a woman in recovery, how important it was, for me to have that strong female network, I went to a co-ed facility, and it worked for me, there are some women that need to be female-only. And also the last one that we'll look at, there are treatment centers that allow children to be there with them. And so is that a prerequisite? And if so, here's a couple of really good treatment centers that will allow you to have your little ones with you.

Steve Martorano 

Oh, that's a great tip. I was not aware of that. Let me ask you about this co-ed thing. Yeah, whether it's your family physician or a treatment facility, man sort of like to go to a male doctor, women, like God with a female physician. So it's not a question of one is better than the other. But in a co-ed situation, there's an additional, I guess, danger. And that is that relationships can form in a therapeutic setting, that can be scary, right?

Nikki Soda 

Yes, the relationship is definitely something to or starting a relationship is definitely something to keep an eye out for. And so that's why there are some really, really good co-ed treatment centers, the Retreat treatment center that I went to. And then there's some not-so-good collab where they just let everybody mingle. And the chances of a hookup early on become great. If it's not if there isn't proper guidance that's set up. So that's something most certainly to take a look at and be cognizant of. You know, there's a large number of women who struggle with substance use disorder that has had some type of sexual trauma. And so it's going to be very important that they feel safe because you can't give well unless you feel safe. And so that's going to be something else to look out for. And then as far as the female / male therapist, I had a male therapist, and he is exactly what I needed. So I think for that it's just very dependent on the person. But you bring up some good points

Steve Martorano 

Where your coaches in college, or high school men or women?

Nikki Soda 

Both.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, yeah. What about pregnancy and, and recovery and treatment? Is enough being done? There must be a boatload of questions a pregnant woman needs to know before she picks a facility.

Nikki Soda 

There is and I believe the Retreat has done a really good job of doing some prenatal they offer services for women that are pregnant, there are absolutely not enough treatment centers and resources for pregnant women, I cannot say that enough. We're just getting one here in Palm Beach County, that's that I live down in South Florida. And there is such a huge need for that. It's really, really sad that the lack of resources, there's a facility in California called New Directions for women that takes not only pregnant women, but allows them to give birth, and then they have a daycare on center, that they are one of the few. And it's very unfortunate.

Steve Martorano 

Do most facilities feel that the problem of substance abuse and co-occurring mental health issues is so daunting, that they would just as a practical matter, not deal with pregnancy in the middle of all that. And so it's overlooked?

Nikki Soda 

Yeah, I think it's a matter of cost, honestly, because I think that it's, it's a very large liability. And they just don't want to put up the money for it doesn't feel that their return is on it, even though it's...if I were to win the lottery, that is where I would give my money to pregnant women in need of treatment.

Steve Martorano 

What other areas do you think the industry has to step up and do a better job of?

Nikki Soda 

Sure, I think that providing substance use treatment of substance use disorder treatment for the indigenous population,. There is so many people who don't have insurance, and that don't have the means for good treatment. And so I do get to visit treatment centers all over the country that have wonderful resources and provide wonderful treatment for a cost, right? If I could wave a magic wand, it would be that some of these wonderful facilities that we have out there both for profit and not for profit, offered more scholarships to people who don't have the means. That's really one of the biggest gaps that I see.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, well, we live long enough, maybe we'll see universal health care and all kinds of fields, which would be wonderful. Thanks so much for your time. It's nice to meet you. And we hope you can come back next time. We'll talk a little bit more about this. You still go out in the yard and shoot hoops what?

Nikki Soda 

I do so I'm currently the Director of the JTA which is Jupiter to quest Athletic Association. And so I coach my daughter who is a heck of a baller Not only coach but I'm now the director of the Youth League.

Steve Martorano 

Well, that's great. I got to say something. I don't mean to embarrass you, but I mean this sincerely. I'm thinking about going to get a couple of T-shirts made up and say Nicky Soda. I was gonna wear them and when people go, what, what is that I go, What's the name. It's a friend of mine. You know what, it's great. You're great. Keep up the good work that you do as a career and you know, 17 years of successful sobriety is, you know, it's a credit to you. It's a testament to your hard work. Thanks so much, Nikki.

Nikki Soda 

Thank you so much, Steve, I appreciate it.

The Behavioral Corner 

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