The Behavioral Corner 

Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano. And this is the Behavioral Corner, you're invited to hang with us as we discuss the ways we live today, the choices we make, the things we do, and how they affect our health and well-being. So you're on the Corner, the Behavioral Corner, please hang around a while.

Steve Martorano 

Hey, everybody, how are you doing? Here we are, on the Corner, the Behavioral Corner. I'm the chief hanger. I hang all the time. I'm on the Behavioral Corner and what we do here is we bring together interesting people who can tell us what they're doing, and how their lives have been impacted for good or bad one way or another, and how they made their way to the other side, which is what we're all trying to do get to the other side where everything is, you know, copacetic. That's all the Behavioral Corner is about. We like to talk about it as a podcast about everything. I guess it's women's history, is what we've been focusing on here in March. So we reached out to as many women to talk about their experiences as possible. We got another dandy on the Corner for us this week. Karmai Alexander is an artist and a veteran of the United States military, those two things are joined together in an interesting sort of way. She's also media director for a foundation called the Birdwell Foundation. And we'll find out about those more later on. I want to welcome Karmai Alexander to the Corner. Karmai, thanks for joining us.

Karmai Alexander 

Hello. Hello. Thank you for having me.

Steve Martorano 

So can you before we get into some of the issues you've had with depression and how you've used our to help you with that regard? Tell us a little about your background, where you from? Where'd you grow up with all of that? 

Karmai Alexander 

From the time I was born until I was 19, I was in Buffalo, New York. 

Steve Martorano 

Yeah. big family. What? 

Karmai Alexander 

We have a small little nucleus family. My great-grandmother migrated from the south up there. And so it was just her my grandfather. And then my grandfather and my grandmother. You know.

Steve Martorano 

Do you have siblings?

Karmai Alexander 

Yes, I have one sibling - a year younger sister and a brother who is four years younger. 

Steve Martorano 

Right. You gravitated towards the military, correct?

Karmai Alexander 

Yes, yes, I did. My uncle was in the Navy. He was as a matter of fact he was a navy seal. And so because of him, I decided to go into the military. Also, so I can get a chance to travel.

The Behavioral Corner 

Yeah, yeah. How old? were you when you assigned up?

Karmai Alexander 

Twenty? I turned 21 in basic training,

Steve Martorano 

You were young, and you were young. So an uncle impresses you. You joined the service. What were you expecting when you joined the military to get out. An education or...?

Karmai Alexander 

Education and to be able to travel the world and meet new people. That was my way of getting out of the city, you know, I've tried other times prior to that I always had to come back home. So the military was one way to, you know, just improve my life, see something different? Go to school, you know.

Steve Martorano 

Where did you do your basic training?

Karmai Alexander 

My basic training was at Fort Leonard Wood. We called it "Ford Lost in the Woods." Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri.

Steve Martorano 

Missouri. Well, you get around. Born in Georgia, raised in Buffalo, and now you find yourself in Missouri of all places.

Karmai Alexander 

Yeah, that was my first time, really, you know, that was different. That was really different.

Steve Martorano 

Missouri was?

Karmai Alexander 

Yes, it was.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah. Yeah. How was it different?

Karmai Alexander 

I've never seen so many trees before. It just seemed like we were in the middle of a national for that's what it felt like. It was my first time experiencing that.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah. I'm a lifelong, dedicated civilian. So I don't know how it works in the military. But you go through your basic training, and then I guess you either choose for you or you figure out what path you want to follow. What did you see your military career developing into?

Karmai Alexander 

Well, yeah, originally when I went in, I went in as a 55 Bravo Ammunition Specialist, but um, I saw career, initially

Steve Martorano 

You thought you're in for the long haul. 

Karmai Alexander 

Yes, I wanted to do 20 years and then retire and move on to another career. 

Steve Martorano 

Sure. We're asking a lot of questions about the military because it was a signal event in Karmai's life. And also because of her work now, I failed to mention, that the Birdwell Foundation and we'll get into it deeper, is a foundation that offers support for veterans who are battling post traumatic stress. So that's what all the military questions are about. You didn't do 20 years in the military. 

Karmai Alexander 

No, I didn't.

Steve Martorano 

And and tell us about your experience in the military stuff that happened that you didn't expect and that you had to deal with, right?

Karmai Alexander 

Things happen so fast, you know, I went into basic training, and then I went to AIT for formal training, for what I was gonna do. And then from there, I flew to Germany, for my first duty assignment. You know, as soon as I got there, I was by myself. I was young, naive, you know, just wanting to make friends and get around and be able to, you know, meet new people. But, uh, upon arriving in Germany, I had a couple -- in the first few weeks, I had some assaults happens to me because of doing that. And that was like between the first two weeks of me getting over there to my temporary duty station. I was, you know, raped twice.

Steve Martorano 

Is that right? Twenty years old. Twenty-one years old way from home. Thousands of miles first time. Friendly, and winds up getting you raped. We're going to deal primarily with the repercussions of that the depression that followed. And then your art, which is really important. But I'm curious about it because there's a growing awareness now of assaults in the military, and how they've been overlooked. Did you report your assaults to anyone?

Karmai Alexander 

Yes, I did. And when I reported it, it was like, it could have happened or didn't happen, or, you know, your word against theirs. It was brought to me and that sort of way. Like I had to have like, proof of being or you know, beat up and I didn't have all that outside. You don't that doesn't always happen. You know, people don't always get beat up, you know...

Steve Martorano 

Did you get the sense that people you were telling this to wanted it to go away, and I didn't want to deal with it?

Karmai Alexander 

There was some interviews done to the, to the people that I have...but one had flown out of the country the next day. So I couldn't...but the other one was a denial is a higher ranking person, you know, his word against mine. And then being by yourself, you know, I didn't have any friends. My mother was all the way to the United States. So I just took it all in and just kept it there and tried to move forward. 

Steve Martorano 

Now all this happened between 1994 and 97, right?

Karmai Alexander 

Yes, I guess it was '94. Between '94 and '95. That year. You know.

Steve Martorano 

And what you did was I forgive the pun, but you soldiered on. And then you had a pretty serious physical accident of spinal injuries or something?

Karmai Alexander 

Yeah, yeah, I did it. So after that, I, you know, what's my duty station and I always tell people that I had to the best and the worst times over in German. Because we did a lot of traveling while he's over there. Going to different countries and ski trips and visiting people. And you know, just embracing the culture over there. But while I was doing that, I got into a car accident on the Autobahn. You hear the Autobahn stories, people driving really fast and careless, and I was that person you know, but I was in the backseat. The road was slippery and the car was out of control and it slipped off the Autobahn to the tree line. And I fell out the hatchback of the car and landed on the Autobahn before the car flipped into the tree line. So I had caught the worst of the accident. 

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, how long were you in hospital after that?

Karmai Alexander 

I wasn't asking him for two months. I had a C2 Hangman fracture. So the helicopter had to come and pick me up and take me to the nearest hospital in Frankfurt. A stayed there for a month where they had to wire my head to the bed. Then in Frankfurt, they ended up putting up a halo on my head. Once they put that contraption on me you know, they sent me to an American military base hospital and Mainz - way up there -and stayed in the halo for about five months. You know, once I learned how to walk again and there was no need for my stay in a hospital they sent me back to the barracks which is Halo and a machine.

Steve Martorano 

Really? Well, you can certainly see in that short spree of time how something you thought was going to be 20 years turned out to be "No man, maybe I better try something else." So what happens to a young girl who expected one thing from a military career that involves a serious accident and physical sexual assaults - you must have been pretty messed up trying to figure it out. Right?

Karmai Alexander 

Yes, looking back during that time, I was so used to pushing things down and stuffing them in, and keep moving forward. You did not aware of any of that you just keep moving forward to the next destination, not even understanding that a lot of things that happen I want to affect you later on. I was just wanted to get out to the military and forget all about it. When I got out I didn't want to go to the Reserves. You know, I didn't want anything affiliated with the military when I got I was like, throw that behind me, too, you know.

Steve Martorano 

So when did you start to suffer psychological problems? I know you battled depression. You press this stuff down you repress it. At what point does it start to become a problem?

Karmai Alexander 

It started becoming a problem in the early 2000s- after had my children. You know, I went on about my life, got married and went to school and then had children but things started creeping up. Hatred for men started creeping up. Hatred for you know, at my job, you know...that the people I work with. I was a manager. I was a manager at a retail store for 12 years. But even there, I was finding myself in a lot of situations, not getting along with the people I work with and preferably it wasn't the ones deep down underneath that my employees It was the management above me. Since I put those things in motion behind me, I thought maybe I was stealing it from my father, mother, Mother, father, you know, father issues, you know. My father wasn't there. You know, he was there partially, but I thought it was from that, but it wasn't it was from what happened to me in the military, and it crept up to my marriage, you know, and initially, I blame him for, you know, the marriage issues, but, you know, it takes two to tango.

Steve Martorano 

Obviously, this stuff is not having a great effect on your life. When and under what circumstances did you start looking for help for your depression?

Karmai Alexander 

Okay, so I started looking for help during the marriage, through my own insurance, because I wasn't, you know, having anything in it. When I got to the military, I was only at 10% disability for the neck accident. So I could have pursued it earlier so I can get a more percentage for the disability, because but I wanted to just not think of that. So I was paying out of my own pocket for, you know, the therapists and psychiatrists and spilling out my guts on issues that are going wrong around me. I had been seeing a psychologist for, about eight years, you know, talking to them about the issues and my job, issues and my husband issues, with everything around, you know, in my mind wondering why things are not simply going well, for me. 

Steve Martorano 

I guess in the beginning, they were primarily looking at this as an anger management issue, right? You're just an angry woman. You tangle with everybody, right?

Karmai Alexander 

Yes. The angry black woman on top of that

Steve Martorano 

On top of that, right.

Karmai Alexander 

There were times I was really, really, really nice. And you know, and then other times, I'm, like, blahhhhhhhhhh, out of nowhere. Why am I doing this? Why am I feeling like this? Why am I behaving this way? Why am I drinking a lot on top of the medication and the psychology gives me?

Steve Martorano 

Right, you know, it's so interesting that, you know, that depression manifests itself in so many different ways. Certainly, anger is an obvious one. But it's particularly difficult when you're trying to get help for that when you walk in and no matter how well-intended this psychiatrist is, and everything, you're right, and they put you right in the Oh, I get it, "That's the angry black woman." who can't get along with anybody at work because she's just angry. It really does diminish the problem of minorities like yourself trying to get mental health. If it's like, oh, it's a syndrome. It's the way they behave.

Karmai Alexander 

Right. It has nothing to do with it.

Steve Martorano 

Nothing to do with it. It's what happened to me, and I can't deal with it. I'm not dealing with it. When does it start to balance out for you? And what role? Did your artwork play in that.

Karmai Alexander 

It started balancing out when I had to start looking for answers for myself. After years of seeing a psychiatrist, one psychiatrist asked me a question one year. I remember sitting there, "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh. They did this to me. They did that to me." He looked at me said, "Why do you allow people to move you?" Nobody can? Yes, if you're not careful you can allow people to make you shift in your emotions. And then that happens all the time. You know, if you don't realize that, then you can find yourself going in all types of directions.

Steve Martorano 

And you think you're in control but you're really just reacting to everybody 

Karmai Alexander 

You're just reacting. 

Steve Martorano 

I guess some family members sort of encouraged you artistically right?

Karmai Alexander 

My grandmother was an artist. Her major in college was to be an English major and her minor was drawing art. She was always doing illustrations all the time. But she always encouraged me to use my, uh, you know, my abilities. I guess I guess as a child I was the one sitting at the kitchen table with the crayons and pencils, always sketching stuff up. It just, it just worked for me, you know, and I just kept on doing and they kept on encouraging. 

Steve Martorano 

When you were going through all of this, you've described your army experienced, the accident, your post-life, were you doing any art then or did he come out later?

Karmai Alexander 

Yes, I've always kept it, uh, during high school. I did a lot of paintings and drawings. There was always a hobby. And there were just a little, you know, sketches here and there even in the military.

Steve Martorano 

But you didn't immediately gravitate towards art as therapy for your depression. It was something you always did. When did you begin to experience the fact that it was helping you feel better?

Karmai Alexander 

In 2016, a lady - a woman named _________ Daniels, I'll never forget her. She made me aware that the paintings I was doing were really actually great, you know, and that I can use it for healing because I was just so used to doing it. I was like a mechanical I was almost mechanical and everything. And it was at one time, that was the only thing I can focus on. I remember years back before the outcome, focus on coming home, working on the painting, work, working on my artwork, going to work coming home, drinking, you know, so all that was all at the same time not aware that that was what I gravitated to, you know, during those years when I ended up going through that. Because in 2011, I ended up having to walk out of my life. That was the turning point to doing my artwork. I resigned from my job, I resigned from my marriage, I resigned from my whole entire lifestyle, to begin doing artwork and finding out the reasons why I'm feeling the way I'm feeling. I even stopped seeing a psychiatrist and taking medication during this time. Also, sometimes I dropped everything to start out clean.

Steve Martorano 

Right. Because that wasn't working, let's try something else. So a heck of a price to have to pay to walk away from all that. During that period of time when you're -- because you're an artist, you're born an artist. And you bit as you say, using it not for therapy, but ultimately becomes something that helps you. Did your art change along that period of time did it go from being one kind of expression to another kind of expression?

Karmai Alexander 

Before I think the art I was doing was kind of not I was not angry or anything like that, but it was aggressive. My sister told me when she told me, she said, you know, every, every year, every ten years your art changes based on your living. You know, so it was angry while I was married but then after I left and start trying to find myself, the awkward came more spiritual-based.

Steve Martorano 

Karmai, tell us how you found the Birdwell Foundation, and tell us what they do and your job there.

Karmai Alexander 

In 2017 I was given a phone number with a PTSD foundation. Because I was told by a psychiatrist girlfriend of mine, that you have trauma that you have to work with. And during this time I was homeless. By the time that I found out about PTSD, I was homeless, with no money, zero money, sleeping from couch to couch. And all this stuff from back in the military. What happens when those years started coming back. I'm still at 10% 20 something years later, I'm still at 10% for my neck injuries. Can't do much as far as the job concerned, because I psychologically I can't go back to work. And physically I can't go back. So I was just, you know, I was nowhere. I called Roger Marshall Jr. and at the time he was at the PTSD Foundation. They didn't necessarily have anything for women with PTSD but he told me to hang on, because, you know, soon that there will be some progress for the women. I may be one of the first female veterans to come on board, you know, so I hung on for a couple of years, and then finally, I found a way to use the abilities that I have as an artist to work with the organization. So we began as a stronger media push and then introduce some female veterans. And then that's when, you know, he found out about I can do graphic designs, and I like to chill around with videos and graphic designs on the side when I have a painting block. And that's how I was able to come in.

Steve Martorano 

Where's the Birdwell Foundation?

Karmai Alexander 

It's a national organization, but it's based out of Houston, Texas.

Steve Martorano 

And you've been there a year now as their media director, correct? 

Karmai Alexander 

Yes. 

Steve Martorano 

Long, strange trip, but it feels like you're right exactly where you ought to be. Is that some of your artwork behind you?

Karmai Alexander 

Yes

Steve Martorano 

Come on. Let see it.

Karmai Alexander 

Okay, let me show it to you. It's huge. It's a Shri Yantra. Have you ever heard of Shri Yantra?

Steve Martorano 

No, I don't think so.

Karmai Alexander 

Its a sacred geometrical design of triangles - five going down or going up.

Steve Martorano 

Oh, I see. Wow, look at the size of that. Is that a painting or what is that? That's a painting, right? All right. So tell me about this. This represents what as far as you're concerned?

Karmai Alexander 

So what this represents is a Yantra. A Yantra is considered to be a tool for meditation.

Steve Martorano 

Ah, okay, sit down again, I want to talk to you about the meditation. It's a beautiful piece of work.

Karmai Alexander 

Thank you. Thank you. It's like a tool mechanism. When you look at it, when you look into the middle Bindu area, it forms shapes and sizes, shapes and stuff like that puts you in a trance, that when you're meditating, it can knock out a lot of other stuff that goes on.

Steve Martorano 

Oh, oh, that's interesting. I thought you had to go into a dark room and look at a candle to meditate. But I guess there are all kinds of ways. have you shown your art in any galleries where you are?

Karmai Alexander 

No, not where I am right now. There were some paintings down in Columbus, Georgia. When I was living down there, that's where I was different after I got to the military. But other than that, no, they're just here to house and not given the family.

Steve Martorano 

It's terrific. Do have you had the occasion, in your work with vets with post traumatic stress to introduce them to art?

Karmai Alexander 

No, not yet. That's what I'm working on and working on right now. As a matter of fact, I was talking with the Marissah at Retreat, and she was talking about doing and maybe possibly doing a program because it takes a couple of days to do these types of panels. 

Steve Martorano 

You've been in touch with people from Retreat Behavioral Health, and you might -- ahh, and I know they're very excited about they're the ones who told me about you. You might wind up teaching an art-related therapy class with Retreat. That's, that's very exciting. Well, I can see. I mean, I don't know you, I just met you. But I heard your story. And I can see you because of the miracle of Zoom, and you look happy, you know, you don't seem angry.

Karmai Alexander 

No, that's a constant work that you do every day, you know, you put forth what you want to see in your life. And so that's what I learned, I learned to put forth what I want to see not the stuff that I don't want to see, I focused on what I want to see. It's almost the same thing that I did before. Now I just know how to do it, and I'm aware of how to go about it.

Steve Martorano 

You know, if you keep traveling on this path, you'll be able to help other people with the same techniques and insights. Karmai Alexander, thanks so much. It was a pleasure meeting you and having you on the Corner. And I know that if you do wind up doing work with Retreat, we will cross paths again. Thanks so much for continued success with the art.

Karmai Alexander 

You're welcome. Thank you.

Retreat Behavioral Health 

Every storm runs out of rain, according to the great Maya Angelou. Her words can remind us of one very simple truth that storms do cross our paths, but they don't last forever. So the question remains, how do we ride out this storm of COVID-19 and all the other storms life may throw our way? Where do we turn on issues such as mental health or substance abuse, begin to deeply affect our lives? Look to retreat behavioral health, with a team of industry-leading experts, they work tirelessly to provide a compassionate, holistic and affordable treatment call to learn more today. 855-802-6600. Retreat Behavioral Health. -- where healing happens.

The Behavioral Corner 

That's it for now and make us a habit of hanging out at the Behavioral Corner. And when we're not hanging, follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, on the Behavioral Corner.