The Behavioral Corner 
Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano. And this is the Behavioral Corner; you're invited to hang with us, as we've discussed the ways we live today, the choices we make, the things we do, and how they affect our health and wellbeing. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner, please hang around a while.

 

Steve Martorano 
Hey, everybody, how are you? And welcome again to the Behavioral Corner. It's me again., Steve Martorano. I hang on the Corner, well, all the time. I mean, I can't tell you the number of times a policeman said, "What's going on, move on." And I've had to explain to him, "No, we have here and try to get lucky and run into people who have some particularly interesting insights into what they're doing, and how what we're all doing affects our behavioral health." Behavioral health is a big topic but briefly stated, it just talks about the choices we make, the things we do, and the impact that has on us psychologically, physically, and spiritually. So that's what we're about here on the Behavioral Corner, and we got a, I think, a really dandy one for you. Our guest is Dr. Steve Eichel. He has been with us before his areas of expertise are broad and deep. He is here with us today to talk about something though, very specifically. I couldn't do his resume justice but suffice it to say that Steve is a Board Certified psychologist. And as I said, many expertise is he is certified in a number of disciplines, diction, sexual trauma, and in this case, hypnosis, which is what we're going to talk about. So Hi, Steve, welcome to the show. 

Dr. Steve Eichel 
Thank you. 

Steve Martorano 
Good to have you back. So again, most people's intersection with hypnosis comes in the form of Bela Lugosi, saying, "Look deeply into my eyes." Okay, so we think we know what hypnosis is, we probably don't. What is it?

Dr. Steve Eichel 
So you know, before I even get in, I mean, I can get into the formal definition of hypnosis, which really isn't that edifying. I'd rather talk about, in a sense why hypnosis has become so misunderstood and goes back to the times of Anton Mesmer. The term hypnosis wasn't coined until the middle of the 19th century. But prior to that, of course, the French alchemists, Anton Mesmer captured the world's attention with his theory that he could magnetize iron rods, which would then cure physical as well as psychological, but really, we're talking about what they thought at that time were physical elements. Interestingly enough, his theory gained tremendous popularity, and you have to try to imagine what it was like, because typically, his patients were women, they would come into a parlor room that was very heavily curtained with big, heavy satin curtains. There'll be a big round tub and iron tub filled with iron filings in water, iron rods coming out of the tub. And the women would come in and they would Anton Mesmer would make them wait, he would deliberately make them wait for about an hour. Then he would come out in it, I'm not making this up, literally in a magician's robe, with one with a cone hat, just like you see in the movies, bars and moons on it and the whole thing, and he'd come out, and he would command them to grab hold of the metal rods coming out of the iron tank. And then he would very dramatically grab one of the rods, and they would just all fall, you know, they would just fall into a hypnotic trance was very, very dramatic. What's interesting is that the very first international scientific conference, you know, the ones that we now hear about all the time, to, you know, to look at global warming to look at the pandemics, etc, etc. The very first international scientific conference was convened in France, we, the United States, a new country, sent our best scientists to that conference. That was Benjamin Franklin. And the purpose of the conference was to evaluate the claims made by Anton Mesmer, including his theory that there was a natural fluid there was a magnetic fluid that ran through people's bodies, and that's what he's manipulating, etc, etc. They met they looked at all the evidence and they determined that Anton Mesmer was a fraud. Mesmerism then was beginning to make inroads into the formal medical and scientific community. When that conference convened and said that Mesmer is a fraud and that Mesmerism is a fraudulent intervention. Mesmer basically went into hiding, and Mesmerism then became in the purview of the carnies and the and the shock stirs and hucksters rather, and the shysters and everything else. It was rejected by the formal medical community until about the 19th century when a British physician by the name of James Braid, very, very interesting story. He was stationed in India which of course, at that time was pretty much an English colony. And he was doing surgeries was he was operating on men who had testicular cancer. So in other words, he was removing testicles. Now, at that time, there are basically only two kinds of anesthesia. So there was either alcohol, right you drink, or ether. Either, of course, it's very volatile, very explosive. And it was really kind of reserved for the more well-to-do. They weren't shipping either over to India to deal with the Indian peasants.

Steve Martorano 
Right.

Dr. Steve Eichel 
So Braid had only one choice. As an Anastasia he sees he decided, even though he rejected Mesmerism, he began using essentially what suggestion and putting these people into what he called a trance. He thought it was like sleep. So he took the Greek term Hypnos, which means sleep, and then coined the term hypnotism or hypnosis to describe what he was doing. He wrote an article that was published in the British Medical Journal, in which he described I think it was about 40 successful operations with testicular cancer, with hypnosis is the only anesthesia. The interesting part is only -- now keep this in mind -- only about half the patients bled to death. Okay, at that time, that was amazingly good. That was an amazingly good statistic. What they didn't know at that time, we now know is that hypnosis can slow blood circulation. And so the reason these patients did not bleed to death is literally their blood circulation has slowed down to the point where they could then be saved, you know, after but let's face it awful operation. And at that point, hypnosis began a very, very, very slow march back into the scientific community. Now, of course, with the invention of modern anesthesias, you know, hypnosis was no longer a well-practiced art among physicians, because of course, you know, chemical anesthesia is far more effective. 

Steve Martorano 
Talking about a great thumbnail of the history of this thing. You're talking about events that began in seriousness a couple of 100 years ago. And yet, here, we know, nobody's doing testicular cancer, with hypnosis, but there's still the wide use of hypnosis, in treatment and in therapy. And yet, all these years later, I looked at the and I rarely do this, but I went to the source, I just looked at a dictionary, I went to the Oxford Dictionary, and look for a definition of hypnosis. And in the first sentence, it says, I'll quote it: It is generally a state of unconsciousness in which a person, apparently keyword loses the power of voluntary action. Apparently, is the word that struck me, of course, because here we are these years later, does it work? Or is it apparently working? So that's why we're so grateful to have you here. In your view, you use I guess you have used it tell us how you have and you must think there is some benefit to this therapy, right?

Dr. Steve Eichel 
Absolutely. First of all, hypnosis does not involve one consciousness. There are people and I'm one of them. There are people who are considered to be very high hypnotizables, who will spontaneously go into a somewhat somnambulant state where you might not remember, for example, I went through hypnosis many years ago to quit smoking. I had three hypnosis sessions. I can't tell you what happened in those sessions. I can remember a little bit of it here and there, but I'm very high hypnotizable. I want you to keep that word in mind: hypnotizable. Okay, that's an important piece of information. The American Psychological Association basically defines hypnosis as a state in which the individual is high or more suggestible than normal and a state in which they can enter into a trance. Not everyone does. In fact, most people don't.

Steve Martorano 
What do we mean by a trance? 

Dr. Steve Eichel 
A trance would be a state in which your attention is very highly focused internally on what's going on inside of you in response to an external suggestion? 

Steve Martorano 
Hmmm.

Dr. Steve Eichel 
So it's kind of like the best way I can describe it so that most people will understand it. It's almost like daydreaming. So you know, you know that situation where you, you're lost in a fantasy. And your wife has even been talking to you for the last 10 minutes. Right? And you don't you know, hear a word that she says.

Steve Martorano 
It happens three or four times a day. 

Dr. Steve Eichel 
There you go. So you know It's really more similar to that, or similar to I like to remind people of what it's like when they go to the movies, and they're really, really absorbed in it. The movie ends and that's when you realize that for the last half hour, you've really needed to go to the bathroom. Yeah, the leg is all cramped. But you didn't feel that.

Steve Martorano 
It is fascinating because that when you describe a trance, like a state, the movie metaphors, perfect. I think athletes talk about being in a zone. That's right. And that's a translated state. It's just so in other words, is it correct to say...

Dr. Steve Eichel 
Sex.

Steve Martorano 
That's right. Yeah, even bad sex, just sort of getting, you know, make an attempt or something. But, uh, if that's the case, is it really nothing more than the intense concentration that we call "hypnotic states" or translate behavior and intense focus on one thing, times suspends? Right? Your surroundings go away? Is that what this is?

Dr. Steve Eichel 
Sometimes. That's the problem. Okay. Or the conundrum. I should say it's not there's not a problem to scientists. It's a problem for laypeople and for other people, folks, who we, you know, first of all, the term hypnosis is applied way too loosely, kind of like an addiction. You know, I remember, you know, I've heard people talk about my dog is addicted to that spot in the grass. What? At any rate, it's a term that's been used way too loosely, to describe a lot of different phenomena. But part of the problem is that there are different kinds of hypnosis. So T. X. Barber, Ted Barber, a very, very famous researcher in the field of hypnosis, before he passed away, he described three different kinds of hypnosis, I have found that to be absolutely accurate in my own experience. So the first kind of hypnosis is what most people think of which is a sort of a dissociative kind of hypnosis, where you go into a basically a kind of translate state. What you described as intense concentration is partly true. The paradox of hypnosis -- most of us, when we intensely concentrate on something, our blood pressure goes up, our heart rate goes up, you know, we had physical signs of concentration. Whereas in hypnosis, you can be highly focused on something, but you're totally relaxed. So there's a paradox there. And that's what makes hypnosis so fascinating. So the one kind of hypnosis, as I mentioned, typically is the kind that these people in their childhood they had, they had a great fantasy life, they may have had pretended, or, you know, fantasize friends, you know, invisible friends. So they know how to let go and let themselves just become completely absorbed and absorbed as the critical term here, absorbed in a fantasy. Those folks can be very and I'm one of them. They're very, very good hypnotic subjects. They can go into deep state hypnosis. Hypnosis, like many other things, has, you know, exists on a continuum. There's light hypnosis, there's middle there's kind of deep hypnosis. Almost anything you want to do can be accomplished in light hypnosis. But when you're talking about, for example, anesthesia before an operation, when I first trained in hypnosis, I met a woman who had had five hours of bowel surgery done with hypnosis as the only anesthesia. There's a story behind that. We had time I can get into it, but suffice it to say, it turns out that she was allergic to every known chemical anesthesia. So it was either acupuncture or hypnosis, and she had to have the surgery where she was going to die. 

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. 

Dr. Steve Eichel 
So pretty good motivator. So she wound up training with a hypnotist and underwent hypnosis. I hypnotized a person to undergo some light surgery, with hypnosis and also hypnotize somebody --and again, they have their private reasons for wanting this. I hypnotize a person to go through a colonoscopy with no anesthesia. And if you've ever had a colonoscopy, not a pleasant experience.

Steve Martorano 
I wouldn't know. I wouldn't know because I just let him hit me up with whatever that was.

Dr. Steve Eichel 
Okay, exactly. For me, I have no memory of it, and I'm fine with that. 

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, right.

Dr. Steve Eichel 
So that's the first kind of hypnosis. The second kind of hypnosis is the kind that people experienced because they've been traumatized as children usually. So they enter into hypnosis very easily and quickly, but it's a rocky one because it's associated with escaping from trauma. The third type of hypnosis is really a more social kind of hypnosis in which you're sort of doing what the hypnotist says because you're a good person you want to comply.

Steve Martorano 
Ha! Okay. As I said, we only think we know what hypnosis is. Clearly, it's like you saying not one thing. It's fascinating, fascinating. I can think of so many examples of I think that third party. I think part of what we see with people's willingness to believe crazy things is kind of... it's kind of hypnotic and translates, right? Did you see that woman online, who was convinced that the vaccine had made her magnetic? And she was in front of the city council or something, and warning about the dangers of the vaccines. And putting keys on her neck say, look how they're sticking to me. I'm magnetic. She struck me as I've left, look, there's only a couple of things she can be here, right? One is completely insane. Or she has somehow convinced herself that this is happening. But she under some kind of spell?

Dr. Steve Eichel 
No, I would say no. Again, there are people and I've known people. There's one psychologist in particular, who wrote a book about how everything is basically hypnosis. It reminds me of John Bradshaw back in the 90s. You know, the addicted person saying that 95% of Americans are addicts. If that's the case, then addiction loses all meaning. Because then everyone's addiction is normal. 

Steve Martorano 
It's normal behavior. 

Dr. Steve Eichel 
So to me to use hypnosis is a term to describe such a broad range of phenomena. It takes the meaning of the word away from it.

Steve Martorano 
It's lazy, it's a lazy way of trying to explain stuff. Alright, let me ask you then, as a clinician who is treating someone who treats people, who do you think this therapy may work for? And how do you begin it?

Dr. Steve Eichel 
Depending on what you want to accomplish, alright, so when someone comes to see me for hypnosis, well, or for therapy, I should say, people call me all the time they want hypnosis for things that are to be blunt, ridiculous. My girlfriend dumped me, I want you to hypnotize me. So I want you to eliminate all my memories of my girlfriend. You know, number one, hypnosis? Can't do that. Number two, if it could, I wouldn't do that. And number three, if it could I be really scared about my existence as a human being. If you can wipe out memory like that, oh, my goodness, what a horrible world we're talking about. So I get calls all the time for things that are just not that again, they hear things on TV, they hear claims, I mean, I when I do presentations on hypnosis, I actually have you know, I've done screenshots of ridiculous things on TV about hypnosis, etc. And to be blunt, the reason for that is money. People make money off of it.

Steve Martorano 
But I mean, there are some, I mean, I wouldn't say mundane, but garden variety uses of hypnosis. You mentioned smoking and weight loss.

Dr. Steve Eichel 
Weight loss is that's a much touch your subject, I get calls all the time for weight loss. The research on hypnosis and weight loss is not good. The research on hypnosis with smoking is better. So I will work with people on smoking, I will not work with them on weight. Let me modify that. I won't work with them on weight unless they're clear that hypnosis is good for motivation purposes. That's it.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. Because in the one case, you're talking about an addictive substance that needs to be dealt with. Or the other case, you're talking about basically a behavior...

Dr. Steve Eichel 
... that you have to control.

Steve Martorano 
Control, right. So that would be more efficacious in the first case, then in the second.

Dr. Steve Eichel 
You can't cut food out of your life. 

Steve Martorano 
No, you can't. Well, let me ask you then you forget the word you used. I have susceptible. Who's more susceptible to this? What's the term you used? 

Dr. Steve Eichel 
Hypnotizables.

Steve Martorano 
Okay, who are they?

Dr. Steve Eichel 
Bright, creative people who are comfortable letting go and letting their fantasies move.

Steve Martorano 
Oh, so there's an incentive for people when they hear that to go, "Woo. I can be hypnotized."

Dr. Steve Eichel 
I'm quoting the research got my opinion. That is the research. First of all, everyone, almost everyone I should say is hypnotizable to some extent, but I'm talking about the highly hypnotizable people. Contrary to what most folks believe they are not stupid. They're not gullible. Highly hypnotizable people tend to be above-average intelligence. They tend to be among the creative classes. All right, artists, writers. podcasters. Well, folks like that. dancers, musicians, etc. They tend to be more creative, and they are comfortable closing their eyes and letting themselves drift off into a fantasy.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. So how does it begin? Is it always the same way as we began with the Bela Lugosi, or we all know about the swinging pendulum watch, how do you hypnotize them?

Dr. Steve Eichel 
I have a pendulum I've never used it. I've used it with children, children when I used to work with children a lot more than I do now. And sometimes using hypnosis kids like it but adults no. 

Steve Martorano 
So how do you begin? How do you do it?

Dr. Steve Eichel 
First of all, I spend some time explaining just what we're doing. Now I'm trying to explain what hypnosis is, and is not. So one of the most important fears people have is that I can make you do something that you wouldn't otherwise do. One of the things I let people know is that number one, I wouldn't make you. But even if I wanted to, I can't make you do something that is intimately or intrinsically against your own personal values. Now, there are exceptions to that statement, but they are very unique, which gets more into the cult end of it. I don't get into that with my patients, because that's really, to them irrelevant information. But for the rest of us, I cannot make you steal money or shoot your friend or whatever.

Steve Martorano 
Can you place a, what's the expression were from a posthypnotic suggestion?

Dr. Steve Eichel 
That Yes, I can we can get to that. And again, that's limited, limited. I also explain that in hypnosis, you do not lose consciousness, you are awake, you're aware, just as in any social situation, or in any situation at all, frankly, there are times you know, I can go to a party. And you may say to me, "Hey, you remember what so and so said?" and I'm like, "No, I don't remember that." "Well, you were right there, you even commented on it." "I don't really remember it." That's normal. We all accept that we don't have little video recorders in our head that are recording everything that goes on without any interpretation. So there is a possibility under hypnosis that you may not remember everything that's normally I don't remember things in my therapy sessions. So I let them know that so there's a certain amount of education that has to come into play. Then what I will do is I will say, okay, close your eyes, take a deep breath in, hold it briefly let it out, and just listen to my voice. That's it.

Steve Martorano 
That's it. And then you ask a series of questions?

Dr. Steve Eichel 
I'll talk to the person I talked to the person in a specific kind of way that is meant to induce hypnosis. So you know, I might -------------------------------right that then in there, your focus was entirely on me, because I stopped in the middle of a sentence.

Steve Martorano 
Right. Right. How long does is there --is there a typical length of time for a session?

Dr. Steve Eichel 
Well, the hypnosis part itself usually lasts about 20 to 25 minutes. Sometimes longer depends on what we're doing. I almost always will tell the person there's something called ratifying the trance. Usually, I have a clock that anyone can see, sometimes I'll turn it away, or I'll just say to the person, don't look at the clock, when they're done when we come out of hypnosis. And I'll say to the person, so how much time do you think went by? And they'll go, like 10 minutes, let's say, Okay, take a look at the clock. And of course, you know, 20 or 30 minutes have gone by. And that's a way of ratifying the trance state.

Steve Martorano 
I see. When you say people are not unconscious, and they have not lost control. Does that mean that in that state, a trance-like state are they capable of lying?

Dr. Steve Eichel 
Definitely capable of lying. And one of the big myths about hypnosis is that it's, you know, it's a truth-telling device. And keep in mind, the government thoroughly looked into that if you're familiar with the MKUltra Program.

Steve Martorano 
Yes, I am. Yeah.

Dr. Steve Eichel 
Some people that I've known, some very fond...Margaret Sanger is one of them. Margaret Singer, a very well-known psychologist, one of the first people to get into the whole cult field. You know, she did the research for the CIA, and she was using hypnosis.

Steve Martorano 
Okay, so with regard to hypnosis, in the context of truth-seeking, because that's, after all, what the effort is, whatever the treatment modality, whether it's the talk therapy is to get to some truth, some deeper insight into what's going on. And if you say that it is not a truth, it is not a truth device -- doesn't cause you to tell truth. I mean, what, are there drugs that will achieve the same kind of translate state? I'm thinking of a sodium pentothal. 

Dr. Steve Eichel 
Right.

Steve Martorano 
How does that work that makes people be truthful,

Dr. Steve Eichel 
Now you're outside my area. 

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Steve Eichel 
And I understand its sodium pentothal. Although it's been called a truth serum, just like polygraphs have been called lie detectors. That's not true. It is possible to fake a polygraph and sodium pentothal does not cause you to tell the truth. Otherwise, you know, why would we have Guantanamo? We wouldn't have we wouldn't need it, right? Just put them all into sodium pentothal and get the truth out of them. And that was the end of it.

Steve Martorano 
Are there situations or problems that you see as a clinician that lend themselves more favorably to hypnosis as a treatment?

Dr. Steve Eichel 
First of all, keep in mind that at least from my point of view, hypnosis itself is not a treatment. Hypnosis is a treatment adjunct. It's kind of like, you know, a hypodermic is not a treatment. A hypodermic is a way of delivering treatment. Right? So, what matters is not the hypodermic What matters is what you put in the hypodermic.

Steve Martorano 
Sure, sure. Well, so let me ask you about your smoking situation because it's interesting. First of all, was successful. Did you quit smoking after? Would you say three? sessions? 

Dr. Steve Eichel 
Yeah. 

Steve Martorano 
Why? Why did that work?

Dr. Steve Eichel 
Keep in mind, I was highly motivated. I was very motivated to quit smoking. Um, you know, I was older. I was a professional. Yeah, it was. Nobody in my circle smoked.

Steve Martorano 
What did you try prior to hypnosis? Cold turkey? Chewing gum?

Dr. Steve Eichel 
The usual stuff.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. And yet, this was successful?

Dr. Steve Eichel 
Right? All I can tell you is the cravings went away. That's all I can say. 

Steve Martorano 
Really? You see, they're there. And now we're back to the mystery of the soul, and Mesmer in his pointy hat because it sounds like magic. You're a smart guy, you tried other things, you didn't go, "Oh, I know, an easy way to do this, I'll go get myself hypnotized." And yet it worked. We don't know much about that, do we?

Dr. Steve Eichel 
the very inner workings we don't, there's still a lot of research being done in hypnosis. Some of its very fascinating research. But I'm a high hypnotizable. Again, when I was undergoing training and hypnosis, you know, I would volunteer to be a subject all the time, because I always feel that the best way to learn something is to experience it. So, you know, I was going through a lot of hypnosis training through the American Society for Clinical hypnosis. And I learned I have hidden the title when Corey Hammond hypnotized me. And ultimately, you know, took my hand took a piece of skin up like that, and stuck a needle through it, and I didn't feel a thing. And I didn't bleed one drop of blood.

Steve Martorano 
Don't try this at home kids.

Dr. Steve Eichel 
No, don't please don't. I am especially responsive to hypnotism. Other people are not.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, what advice would you give to somebody who is in treatment for something, whatever it may be, and they're seeing a clinician, maybe they're a psychiatrist, or a psychologist or whatever, about saying to that person? Let's try hypnosis. How likely are people to do that? In your experience? What would be the reaction of the clinician? I can imagine some of them going? No, no, that's not good. So what advice would you give people who go I want to try hypnosis,

Dr. Steve Eichel 
Are you talking about the patient saying I want to? 

Steve Martorano 
Yes. 

Dr. Steve Eichel 
Okay. So my reaction when people say that to me all the time, I've got my gnosis certification right up on the wall, they can see it. So I get that comment all the time. And my first reaction is, tell me what is it that you want to accomplish? What do you think hypnosis will do for you? And about half the time they say things that aren't realistic, and that you know, are just low. That's what we're doing here now, that's not what hypnosis can do for you. Hypnosis is not going to get your husband to be nicer to you, or whatever. But the other stuff I'm usually pretty enthusiastic about. I go, that's a great idea. Let's give it a try.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, yeah. With regard to licensing, and making sure that people who do this are qualified. What's the structure that protects us from the quacks?

Dr. Steve Eichel 
I'm smiling broadly because you may or may not know about my Dr. Zoe D. Katze thing. 

Steve Martorano 
No.

Dr. Steve Eichel 
A whole other story. I became somewhat infamous or famous depending on how you want to look at it 20 years ago, almost 20 years ago because I got my cat certified by the National Guild of Hypnotists. by the International Medical and Dental Hypnotherapy Association. I wrote up about it -- I wrote -- if you Google -- if you Google Zoe -- Z-O-E Katze - K-A-T-Z-E. If you know even rudimentary German katsa is German for cat.

Steve Martorano 
You didn't do this because you thought the cat at any particular skills here. At what point were you trying to make here, Doc?

Dr. Steve Eichel 
That you have to be careful with hypnosis. Hypnosis is not a profession itself. In my opinion, there's no state that licenses hypnotists. So you have to rely on either word of mouth or on ads or on independent certifying agencies. Most of which, I think are not entirely legitimate. And that's why I did my Zoe Katza experiment. It's in legal documents. She's way more as I always like to say she's way more well known than I am. First of all, always make sure that whoever you're seeing is a licensed professional meaning a licensed medical doctor or licensed psychiatrist, a licensed social worker, licensed counselor, licensed psychologist. Yeah, the patient 

Steve Martorano 
The pathway is through traditional avenues...

Dr. Steve Eichel 
That is correct. 

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. And not a standalone because we still see you can drive down and see a strip mall or two in this country, hypnotic treatment for smoking. 

Dr. Steve Eichel 
And that is entirely legal. And I've known people, these folks are referred to as lay hypnotists. And I've known a couple of lay hypnotists who are incredibly skillful, who has taught professionals. So, you know, as it's true with any lawyer, doctor, psychologist, whatever, it always boils down to the individual, right? You can go to an individual doctor who went to Harvard Medical School, who's at quack, You can go to a, you know, an attorney, who went to Harvard Law School and is incompetent. There are certainly psychologists who don't know what the hell they're talking about. 

Steve Martorano 
You never know as you're sitting in the office. How many of these people cheated their way through med school. I mean, just, you just never know. 

Dr. Steve Eichel 
Never know. And so basically, from my point of view, licensing and certifying, what that does is it increases the likelihood that you're going to someone. It doesn't guarantee it.

Steve Martorano 
Well, Dr. Steve Eichel, I could sit here for days and talk about hypnosis. Just leave with this and you tell me if my impression is correct, that on some level, significant level, hypnosis has moved out of that Mesmer era and is now you know, fairly well established and bonafide technique to treat certain things.

Dr. Steve Eichel 
Absolutely is. It is a science-based modality when properly employed by a licensed professional can really, really help people a lot. I didn't even get into how to use and PTSD. That's how hypnosis became -- that's one of the reasons why hypnosis kind of exploded on the scene in America after World War Two because we didn't even have the term PTSD. Back then it was war neurosis or shell shock. But there are actually some there are movies out there. Something -- Captain Newman, MD...

Steve Martorano 
Yes.

Dr. Steve Eichel 
...is a fairly well-known movie where they actually show hypnosis being used to treat PTSD, even though they didn't have the term PTSD. So, you know, My point being that that absolutely is it is a very useful modality when it's properly employed just like any other medical modality.

Steve Martorano 
And I guess the final analysis, right, you are going to benefit from hypnosis, like any other treatment, the more you bring to it, the more you can benefit from it. 

Dr. Steve Eichel 
Yeah. That's a very great statement.

Steve Martorano 
See, Michael? Terrific. I'm going to have you back. Like I said if you're willing to work as a rotating co-host for no money. You were Zoe, you're welcome. 

Dr. Steve Eichel 
Very good. 

Steve Martorano 
Steve Eichel, thanks so much. You have a website you have where people want to know more about what you're about. Where do they go to find that out?

Dr. Steve Eichel 
drsteveeichel.com. That's DR -- for doctor -- and then my name. And that's it.

Steve Martorano 
Thanks so much. Always a pleasure and look deep into my eyes and say goodbye. We're out of here. That's the Behavioral Corner. For the rest of you as well -- don't forget, follow us, Facebook, all that stuff. Don't make me have to hypnotize you in an effort to get you to listen to our podcast. Although it sounds like I could probably do that. Anyway, take care, buddy. See you next time on the Behavioral Corner.

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Studies show that 2020 has negatively affected the mental health of millions of Americans. That is why at Retreat, we work to provide comprehensive mental health programming through our Synergy Health Programs. To learn more about Synergy and the comprehensive mental and behavioral health services we offer, call us today at 855-802-6600.

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