The Behavioral Corner
Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano. And this is the Behavioral Corner; you're invited to hang with us, as we've discussed the ways we live today, the choices we make, the things we do, and how they affect our health and wellbeing. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner, please hang around a while.

Steve Martorano
Hey, everybody, how are you doing? Welcome once again to the Behavioral Corne. I'm Steve Martorano hanging, as I usually do, here, it's sort of the intersection of while the stuff we do, the decisions we make, and how all that stuff ultimately affects our behavioral health, big topic. You know, behavioral health, the way you behave, affects your health, your mental health, your physical health, and your spiritual well-being. And we explore in that context, a whole lot of different people and events in their lives. But very often, we return to the issue of substance abuse, and stories of that struggle, and how people manage it to get sober. They do millions do. by the way. Their dirty, little secret about substance abuse, is that people get better they do less figure I saw was upwards of 20 million people who are living in long-term sobriety. So we like to remind folks that the best way to do it is to get people who've been there and done that, let them tell their story. So that's what we are about today on the Behavioral Corner. And in order to paint as complete a picture of that whole process. It's important to remember that it's very rare but not impossible for a recovery to occur without relapses. But as I said, it's a very rare and misunderstood event in the life of someone who's suffering from substance abuse is this relapse notion, I think on the outside, it looks like a failure. And in one sense, it's a stumble, but it is not a fault. And that's what we're going to particularly focus on with our guests today, Alex Penn. He joins us through our friends at Retreat Behavioral Health, how are our underwriting partners of this, and they have a great alumni group. And it's more of a social gathering, as I understand the alumni group, but these are people that are in sobriety, they have been cleaned for a while and they gather to you know, compare notes. So Alex comes to us through them. Alex Penn, welcome to the Behavior Corner. Thanks for your time.

Alex Penn
Thanks, Steve. It's great to be here.

Steve Martorano
So let's begin at the beginning. Who are you? Tell me a little about yourself. Where'd you grow up?

Alex Penn 
I grew up in the suburbs of Philadelphia, an area near Landsdale. I went to North Penn High School school districts, you know. I ended up graduating. I went to college out in California and was out there for a number of years. And then, you know, I circle back here around 2010. And I've been around here ever since.

Steve Martorano 2:53 
Yeah, characterizing briefly, it sounds like your garden variety, middle class, suburban upbringing, is that pretty much what it was?

Alex Penn
Yeah, I mean, I would say probably upper-middle class at a minimum. You know, I really had two loving parents that completely supported my brother and I, you know, I went to college, I did not have to pay for college. So you know, that was a great blessing. You know, I had two people and by the way, they don't use drugs or drink alcohol in excess. So you know, the fact that I kind of identify myself as an addict today has really nothing to do with them.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, it's one of the ironies of substance abuse, rising to the level of has over the past 10 or 15 years. And at the face of it is, it hasn't changed, but it has revealed itself as being much broader than the stereotypes I was brought up believing. These were people of lesser economic ambitions, they were off with minorities, it was an inner-city problem. It was a crime-based context, we now know it's on the cover of Wheaties, boy, it's everywhere. So it doesn't surprise us to hear that about your background. Now, so there is a very unlikely situation you would think, why would a fella like that get himself in trouble with substances? How did that begin for you?

Alex Penn
Yeah, so I started using you know, around the time I was 15 or 16. And you know, prior to the kind of coming on this podcast, I always try to reflect on you know, what happened, what was the catalyst, and what has changed over the years. But I think the reality is that I had a lot of pressure I was very uncomfortable in social situations. You know, I had things that I was insecure about that kind of, I think, expose me or maybe a little bit more vulnerable to, you know, using drugs and really trying to escape and I think, in the beginning, you know, there were two things I was trying to do. I was trying to escape the problems that I had which were, listen, these are luxury problems, you know, worried about getting good grades or going to a certain school, but also I had issues about you know, fitting in and not feeling comfortable in my own skin. When I started to use drugs, you know, in particular, I'm just gonna say drugs and alcohol, it's all one thing for me. It modified my behavior, it made me feel more comfortable. It allowed me to, you know, fit in and, and kind of calm some of the mental stuff that I had going on. And, you know, when I discovered that I could get that relief, I wanted that relief all the time. And, you know, for me, when I started using basically full time right away.

Steve Martorano
Yeah, you know, I again, I've done a lot of these interviews and this notion of not fitting something being amiss, for no apparent reason is a pretty common description. And then the relief offered by self-medicating through substances that's also a sort of follows. I have a question. It just made me the first person I've ever asked it still did the anxiety of not fitting, in your mind get relieved, because you had altered your consciousness through chemicals or whatever, or because using the chemicals, puts you in a different social group and suddenly, you thought you found your peers. Which one. Was it a little bit of both?

Alex Penn
I think it can be both, you know, you're certainly using drugs. And that is a different group. You know, I was, you know, a top athlete, so I was always playing soccer and, and running track and I was involved with a group that for most of them did not get into drug use on a regular basis. And then I when I was using I associated with people that were using, just like me, so I was in multiple circles, and I would say it's a little bit of both for me.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, you were one of those guys who, tragically, were able to keep all those balls in the air at the same time, so it only prolongs the ordeal, right? 

Alex Penn 
Yeah, I mean, I would say in the beginning, listen, it was like, "Okay, if I if I don't want to get high today, I don't have to get high." I'm not going through withdrawal symptoms, you know, maybe it's a little uncomfortable. When you're 15 / 16 that's one thing. And I do remember going off to college. So the summer before I went to college, I realized, Hey, you know what, like, I shouldn't be using any drugs want to go to college. And I remember two weeks before I left for college, I stopped using, I don't even remember having any discomfort from that, you know, except for like, hey, I just wasn't doing it. But when I did get the college and I saw everybody was doing it, you know, I was alone at that point. I was with, you know, new kids new situations are exciting. I went to school in California, you know, I started using it right away. And, you know, within six months of me being in college, you know, I wasn't going to class anymore. I was not falling out. But I was not happy. And there was a big difference in how I felt. And I do realize that that had started when I first started using, you know, I was suppressing feelings.

Steve Martorano
That idea you had is what 18 -- 17 -- 18 year old, off to college to, "Okay, I gotta straighten up. Time to get smart." That's a pretty sophisticated insight for somebody who was sort of handling it. Why did you think you have to stop?

Alex Penn
To be honest, I got mostly A's in honors classes. And, you know, my senior year I got a D in this math class. And even my parents had found pot once or twice any, it just, I think this is the one that is this feeling has stuck with me throughout the times I've tried to get clean and relapse and the basic fact is, I wasn't raised to do drugs. You know, I'm acting against my instinct, the way I was raised by my parents and my family. And so, you know, at some point, it is exciting. But ultimately, I do feel really guilty about letting myself down and letting the people down around me. And so that was always a big driver for me. And you know, a lot of times when I try to get clean, you know, I don't like how I'm acting as a person. Now. That's the, you know, there's a disappointment. You're disappointing others, but I mean, it's so much more internal, you know, internal feelings that you're experiencing that drive me to get clean.

Steve Martorano 
This notion of disappointment is interesting. You're disappointed. Did you struggle with why you were like this, given that, as you said, you weren't raised to be this way, there's nothing in your life that should have indicated it? Did you struggle with the why?

Alex Penn
I didn't start struggling with the "why" until I was probably 24 or 25 when I had gone through it. It took me a while. And I think it takes a lot of people a while to start realizing that they have a problem. So I wasn't necessarily aware that drug use for me was a problem. You know, yes, I'm not getting, you know, good grades, sometimes, you know, sometimes I'm not going to work. But you start seeing that as a kind of external reason. You're not looking at the internal reasons. So, you know, I'd say when I was 24 / 25, I started just coming to a conclusion that like, my life was so chaotic. And a lot of it was because I was using drugs on a regular basis. And, you know, when the drugs stopped, they stopped working eventually, you know, you have to start looking for solutions that are different. And the common factor after 10 years of being uncomfortable is -- is me, you know, and people come to that conclusion right away, and sometimes it takes a while. 

Steve Martorano
Yeah. 

Alex Penn
I didn't get that till I was 25.

Steve Martorano
Yeah, well, you know, people keep wondering about the aha moment and the clear, light moment and when it all starts to fall into place, and I've never really kind of bought the idea that it happens like a thunderbolt. I think it's a gradual journey to try to figure out what's going on. Characterize the history of your drug use. I mean, you can get as specific as you like, I'm more interested in the rate of acceleration, you said, you began youthfully messing around at 15 probably beer and grass and the...give me a kind of timeline on the acceleration. 

Alex Penn 
Yeah, I would say, you know, 15 / 16. I started I was pretty consistent with a couple of things I was doing all the way until I was maybe 24 / 25. Definitely, when I went to college, I started trying other things. And, you know, toward my junior year in college, probably 22 / 23, you know, I really had kind of shifted some of the substances I was using. I had been using it every day for years. There were times when I had tried to stop and maybe stopped for 30 days on my own just to see if I could do it. I did. But you know, I didn't really see a whole big problem with it. Things got noticeably worse around 2009. After I graduated college and worked for a couple of years, the recession came down. I basically was unemployed, I moved back to the Philadelphia area from California. And then I had an extended amount of time, you know, to myself where I wasn't working. And at that point, I was using every day, all day long. And, you know, I had been using that way for a number of years. But, you know, it became painfully obvious to me that I had a drug problem. And, you know, the next step was like, "Okay, well, like, how do I fix it?" Like, and how do I fix it myself, I was not going to go into like AA or any other type of fellowship. I just was like, you know what, I just got to stop doing. And, you know, that's how as it starts, you start to try to stop doing it on your own. You know, one thing I didn't mention, but I have a brother that's in recovery, you know, I have a little...coming up in like three and a half years, he's got over 10 years. He's a younger brother, I was aware that, you know, programs are out there to assist us. But I definitely was not at a point thinking that I needed any assistance, that this was still something that, hey, I just got to stop using

Steve Martorano
That's a typical reaction of a high achiever. I got myself into this mess, I'd get myself out of this mess. Yeah, yeah, it's and it's interesting, because the only thing you have to get out of the mess is, in fact, causing the best. So you know, you're on a treadmill. And so let me ask you what your brother thought it's kind of interesting. So he's in programs, he's getting clean and sober. Did he ever say to you, "Alex, what are you doing? You can't do this alone?" Did he ever council you?

Alex Penn
So our relationship has changed over the years. There was a time when we did not talk much. And that was probably in my mid-20s. Because he was, you know, he was clean. And really, I was calling him and kind of challenging whether or not he was actually clean. And, you know, I was actively using, you know, so we did not talk on a real consistent basis like we do today. You know, and my parents as well, there was a lot of strain. And that the idea was is I was going to get help, and I was going to get help. You know, what ended up happening. The first time I even approached or made a decision that I couldn't do it alone was I woke up one morning and said, "Hey, I need to go to a meeting." I just walked into a meeting, like, I was just so tired of being the same thing that I just said, "I gotta try something different." And I was like, probably like, 25 was my first experience with anything recovery-related. And it was just simply, hey, I looked up where to go to an AA meeting. I remember driving on the way over there and just thinking, Hey, I'm gonna be in there for 30-days and figure out what they're gonna do. And like, there's no way that I'm like them. And I got in there heard about the big book and God and get a sponsor and like, I'm like, man, like, there's no way I'm doing that stuff like that. The consistent thing that prevents people I think, from getting into recovery consistently, or, or long term is that there's always this notion, you're always thinking, you know, what you should be doing.

Steve Martorano
Sure. 

Alex Penn
And the reality is, you don't know anything except for how to use and if you're struggling, you're listening to yourself, it's gonna get in the way of what other people are saying. But it takes a lot to give up the control and, and open up and surrender and say, Hey, you know what, like, my life is a mess. I have these issues, and I need help. It's a really big deal.

Steve Martorano
Listen, it's an insidious disease. Organic stuff -- it's more easily explained cancer, diabetes, stuff like that don't lie to you. I mean, cancer doesn't bother you. Right? But addiction does. It's a brain disease. And there you are thinking, well, this is the thing that can fix it. It's, you know, it's whispering in your ear. Yeah, you could do this, but it knows you can't. It keeps you in that game. It's an unbelievable disease. I've learned so much over the years. I've been talking to folks in this situation. My eyes have really been opened about this. How long would you characterize the portion of -- first of all, how long have you been sober clean now?

Alex Penn
Yeah, so my clean date is January 24, 2018. So it's, you know, three years and a couple of months.

Steve Martorano 
Congratulations. That's excellent. running up to this stretch of time. You said it was a 10 year period when you tried a lot of things to get sober?

Alex Penn
Yeah, it was. So I tried. You know, I went to my first rehab, probably when I was 26. You know, I tried in and out of fellowships on my own. I tried individual therapy. And today, I do still see a therapist, but you know that I've tried it all. I've tried it on my own. And I think one of the things that worked for me is that I just started realizing that if I go to a meeting, one day, I don't use, you know, it took a while for me to kind of pick that up. And every time I would relapse, I would come back and the same people were there. And I'm looking around going well, I don't think they're any smarter than me. They seem to be all doing the same thing. And so then, you know, the one time I'd come back and say, Hey, you know what, I'll get a sponsor, you know, but I'm not hanging out with anybody. for, you know, I'll get a sponsor, this time, now, students step work, you know, I kept filling in pieces. But there was part of me that just did not want to be an addict, or an alcoholic, like, I did not want to be part of that. I didn't want to be associated with it, I thought I was better than that. You know, I just thought it.

Steve Martorano
You know, I mean, there is still an unfortunate aspect of this. And that is, you mentioned surrender, and finally understanding what the situation is about. And the notion that suddenly, you are now sort of branded as this thing, I am this thing. Let's admit it, that's a tough one. That's why a lot of people look for alternatives. They want to return to social drug use, and all kinds of crazy notions, rather than accept the fact they have a problem, a disease that's identified this way. When you relapse, and by the way, as we said, in the beginning, we're talking about relapse. You can't even put an exact number on it, because you're here your journey was so up and down, in and out. How did you feel during those periods of time when you would go to the therapist or go to the meetings and then find yourself two days later using again? 

Alex Penn 
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a tough, tough thing. And here's the deal is, you know, I, when I look back on it, you can see some of the relapses coming, you know, you stop going to meetings, you blow off the therapist, and, you know, off you go, or, you know, at the beginning for me, I knew I had a plan to use, I just didn't want to tell anybody, I didn't want to put the roadblock up to stop me from using. And I think for me, you know, a lot of that, like, being involved with a fellowship, like that was a roadblock. I ultimately was not convinced that I had a problem.

Steve Martorano 17:54 
How long did it take you to share with me? Did you did you ever?

Alex Penn
I think I shared almost right away. You know, I went up there, I said, Hey, I'm Alex, I gave him my last name, which we're not supposed to do. And, you know, I'm an alcoholic? I, I think I was pretty convinced I was, you know, I had a problem. But I wasn't 100% convinced that I couldn't solve it on my own.

Steve Martorano
You mentioned that you can see the relapse coming because of your behavior that contributed to that. Were there triggers for you that caused that?

Alex Penn 
Sure, I mean, in the beginning, that, you know, the triggers change over time. You know, having to give up friends is a big one, you know, just the anxiety of not using is a trigger in itself. You know, when I stopped using and I start feeling, you know, less than other people or I'm not where I should be in life, or why is this happening? To me, there's a lot of stuff that can trigger it. A lot of it for me was just thoughts. And I would put myself in situations where I shouldn't be people, places, and things. I mean, no, that was a big thing in the beginning.

Steve Martorano
What was going on around you? With regard to what you mentioned, your family is strained and your brother estranged for a while? What about your social life around that? What was similarly stressed during all this?

Alex Penn 
Yeah, I mean, my social life was people at the bar, you know, I'd go in there and I didn't have much of social life, you know, I, well, you know, at least a healthy social life. You know, my friends were people that use to like me. We weren't really friends, we would all use each other. We were all degenerates. You know, I was proud of that. I was like, Hey, you know, this is cool. I'm here. And that's what I would do every day. I do go to the bar, I use, I played pool, you know, and leave. You know, at the time, I was staying at my dad's house from since I was 25 to 32 or 33. You know, and so the strain that I would take me using back to his house, you know, and there was a lot of strain. And at the end when I did get to, you know, Retreat, you know, I asked him to write a letter to me about how you know, one of those impact letters. The basic summary of it was that he thinks I may be a good person, but he hasn't seen that person in years. And that's the reality is in the beginning, you know, there, my parents were very, very supportive of recovery and, and, you know, getting me to rehab and things, but at the end, you know, it's just like, oh, he's trying to get clean again, I hope he does it. And then really at the end is, it's just so scary. You know, my parents were not sure I was going to be alive, they didn't know where I was, they didn't know what I was doing. The situation escalates so much, you don't even see it. The next thing, you know, I'm thinking about, you know, hey, I want to kill myself. I want to I don't want to be here anymore. You know, and that's a big difference from when I was 25. thinking, Hey, you know, this is depressing, but it's not that bad. Like, I can deal with it. And over successive relapses, you know, over and over and over again, you just get to a point where it's just so hopeless.

Steve Martorano
The darkness descends us for sure. how seriously, did you contemplate hurting yourself?

Alex Penn
My last relapse and you know, this is really kind of what drove me into it was around Christmas time, about 2017. You know, I went out for three weeks I was -- I hadn't been working any sort of program, but I wasn't using for about two months. And there was a situation that happened that just made me feel just so much beneath people. And, and it became so obvious to me that nothing in my life had changed in 10 years. I had no friends, I had no job. I wasn't doing anything that I wanted to be doing. I had no money, I was in credit card debt. And I didn't know where to go how to get out of it and fix that situation. It triggered me and I picked up here's my drug of choice right away. And you know, within a week, I'm going through withdraws. I'm seeing things I'm talking to people that aren't there, you know, I'm not eating, I'm not drinking, I'm just using around the clock. And you know, within two weeks, I put all my furniture in front of the staircases. You know, I was walking around with a handgun, again, pointing at things that weren't there, and I was hiding in a corner crying, just completely scared. That's what it was like, that's what I remember. I couldn't tell you what my other relapses were like this one. I remember to the day, it was awful.

Steve Martorano
This was the one. If there was one of those clear light moments, it was then. People have said to me many times, all I knew for sure, for sure, was that this wasn't sustainable. I couldn't do this anymore. They were completely clear on what to do next. Did you have that feeling where you went, I can't do this anymore.

Alex Penn
Yeah, I mean that well, that that was that point. But I feel like I had been there before. But I think what happens is, you know, in the beginning, you know, when I'm 25, and I relapse, I still go to work. The next day, when I'm 28 and relapse, I still go to work, right? When I'm 30, I stopped going to work, my life shuts down when I relapse, you know, and there was a huge shift over a number of years. And this last relapse was that I shut down right away. The options you have around using and stopping, they get taken from you, you know, that option to still go to work or that desire to still go to work, it goes away, the relapses become more severe, and they're more intense, they get intense quicker. That was my experience. And you know that last one? I don't want to go back to that. I mean...

Steve Martorano
You're certainly evidence that relapse, as I said, in the beginning, is often a part of this whole process. It doesn't automatically mean you failed at anything. Just if this were a race, it means you fell down. Why did you keep getting back up?

Alex Penn
I mean, what else do you have to do I need to fix this. Today, I work to be the best person I can be. I am not that person every day. I want to get closer to that. I know. And I'm not talking about being perfect. But like I have driven and I have desires and things like that that I want to achieve and you know, one of my favorite sayings and the fellowship I'm in is a saying that says "Lost dreams awaken new possibilities arise." Like for me, that's the biggest hope shot that I can hear because there were so many years there, I had no dreams, no hope I've given up on everything. But deep down, I knew if I could just get clean, I can start accomplishing some stuff. I just needed to figure out how to do it. And you know, in my case, I was lucky enough to survive, get to the spot. I have friends I use with that are not here. They did not have this awareness, this acceptance, the surrender. And you know, I'm just luckily able to just be here and I'm clinging on to it just getting as far away from the drugs as I can get every day. 

Steve Martorano
I can appreciate that. I mean, I know in my own life and I'm not in recovery but I've always taken a little bit of comfort in no matter what the day was like I managed to convince myself, "Well, tomorrow be a better day" or at least there's an opportunity for it to be a better day. You lose that when you're using you lose the sense that there's anything other than this right?

Alex Penn
Yeah, I mean there's nothing you know that's what it is. I mean, you have this mighty this very narrow thinking which is everybody's doing the same thing you're doing if you go to a movie theater, you got to go and use if you want to go to a baseball game, you go and use and you start seeing how you behave. Right? You know, one of the things, since I've been clean, is there's so much more stuff to do you know, I do a lot of traveling today I can go mountain bike, I can go weightlifting. You know, there's all these new experiences that are opened up to me. But when you're using, you are literally focused on just the use, you don't see anything else. And you don't see that there's a chance for you to survive and live a different way. And you question whether that you would even want to do that, like, what drug addict wants to get clean? Just to go to a bunch of meetings, your perception of what being clean? Is You have no idea.

Steve Martorano
Yeah, it seems like a negation of who you are. I mean, who you are someone who likes to get high, likes to get loaded. If I take that away, then what am I?

Alex Penn
What am I? You don't know. And that that, you know, when I came out of rehab, and it was an outpatient program, you know, I had this eye-opening experience where they, they sat down, and they said, describe who you are without using other people, or personal items. I didn't know who I was, that's a really scary thing.

Steve Martorano
You probably have the occasion over the years now that you've been sober to be with people who were in that spot you were in? Can you spot them a mile away, the guy sitting in the back of the room going this ain't for me.

Alex Penn
You know what you never know, sometimes you can see it, you know, but you know, I was probably one of those people that came into the program, and I had so much enthusiasm, and I was just like, I'm not, I am not using again. And I see that and you just don't know. My sponsor and a couple of my friends said they put me on their phone as Alex Fire because they said I was just on fire. Like, I was just pointing to what I need to do, tell me how to do it, where to go when, and I'm there. And this is one of the things you know, you get to a point when you have enough relapses where you start really getting pretty serious. And I got so serious, I did not want to go to that spot where I was walking around in my house with a gun ready to shoot myself. 

Steve Martorano
Yeah.

Alex Penn
I was done with that I was done with the withdrawal experience in rehab. I was done with not knowing and not trusting people, I was just over it. You know you do get to a point where you finally just you're against the wall like you have hit that wall. And you said You know what, enough's enough. And when I came out of rehab, I did put recovery first I did not, you know, it was not to go get a job, how do I fix everything? How do I pay off the credit card debt, I don't have any money. It's just those are the things that happen. And the number one thing was getting in recovery and getting serious about it and building a foundation. And that's what I did my first year.

Steve Martorano
Your attitude towards relapses is important for people. I remember a conversation with a couple who'd lost their son -- multiple bouts, and multiple times in and out of rehab. And they were on the program. He talked about the importance of treatment. And I said to them, you know, some people are going to wonder how someone in your situation, who lost a son to an overdose, would be advocating for treatment. And I'll never forget what the mom said. She said, "Treatment didn't fail our son. He just ran out of time." 

Alex Penn 
Yeah.

Steve Martorano
...because he was trying. There's something inevitable about that behavior that's going to kill you if you're not careful. It's a question I asked too I don't know if it's the right word. You worry about relaxing.

Alex Penn
No, I'm not thinking about it. I don't think about using it today. Listen, I don't want to relapse. But you know, there are things that I do to put myself in a position where it's just not an option. And it's going to meetings, it's you know, doing stuff like this. 

Steve Martorano
You're just not hoping you won't relapse, you're working at not relapse.

Alex Penn
The relapse will come and get you if you're sitting around doing nothing. I mean, you got to be moving away from it. You got to be actively involved. That's my personal opinion. But, you know, hey, I think there's plenty of research to go and these programs work if you're doing what they are recommending,

Steve Martorano
well, you know what, if we remember nothing of this conversation, your phrase about moving away from it is really something to hold on to anybody's struggling out there. Move away from it. And pretty soon you'll have that distance. Alex Penn, thanks so much. Congratulations on the three years plus clean and obviously we hope for many more of those years for you.

Alex Penn
Thank you very much, Steve.

Steve Martorano
Our pleasure. Hey guys, thanks for hanging with us on the Corner. Don't forget to look for us, wherever finer podcasts are available. While also on Facebook. You know the whole drill. Thanks so much. And we'll see you next time on the Behavioral Corner.

Retreat Behavioral Health
Every storm runs out of rain, according to the great Maya Angelou. Her words can remind us of one very simple truth that storms do cross our paths, but they don't last forever. So the question remains, how do we ride out this storm of COVID-19 and all the other storms life may throw our way? Where do we turn on issues such as mental health or substance abuse that begin to deeply affect our lives? Look to Retreat Behavioral Health, with a team of industry-leading experts. They work tirelessly to provide compassionate, holistic, and affordable treatment. Call to learn more today. 855-802-6600 or Retreat Behavioral Health where healing happens. 


The Behavioral Corner
That's it for now. And make us a habit of hanging out at the Behavioral Corner and when we're not hanging follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter on the Behavioral Corner.