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Ep. 9 - Phil Anastasia
Jul 26, 2020
As the coronavirus pandemic threatens to keep our schools closed this fall we take a look at whether the virus will dim the lights of Friday night.
On the Behavioral Corner, we're talking youth sports with Philadelphia Inquirer reporter Phil Anastasia. Join us.
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Born and raised in South Jersey, Phil Anastasia prefers standing on the sidelines at high school football games on Friday nights to sitting in the press box at Eagles games on Sunday afternoons. He’s a graduate of Rowan University with a degree in English.
Philadelphia Inquirer - https://www.inquirer.com/author/anastasia_phil/
Twitter -
@PhilAnastasia
Episode 9 - Phil Anastasia Interview Transcript
The Behavioral Corner
Hi and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano, and this is the Behavioral Corner, you're invited to hang with us because we've discussed the ways we live today. The choices we make, to things we do, and how they affect our health and well being. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner, please hang around a while.
Steve Martorano
Well, you know, like everything else we're waiting. That's what we do nowadays. We wait for some light at the end of the tunnel. Right now. It's all about what can we open up and how can we open it up and we're hanging here on the corner going? Yeah, most of that conversation has to do with business and that's understandable, got to get the economy going. But there are a whole lot of other things that are looming on the horizon that we're all looking forward to sports is one of them. We've talked about this in the past. They play a big, big role in our emotional well being none more so than youth sports and that's a whole nother kettle of fish seasons looming, the falls coming. Kids are wondering we plan are we not playing? So we thought we'd go to a guy who spent more Friday nights and high school athletic programs. And, you know, Gene Hackman, you know, he only coach that one couple of years in Indiana. Phil Anastasia is our guest. Phil is a longtime resident of the area that we recorded this in the Delaware Valley, born and bred, a journalist, a journalistic family as a matter of fact, Phil gravitated towards sports early in his career, and he I believe, and we'll find out that he began in the newspaper of my of my youth. My first newspaper was the Camden County Courier Post. I have a great affection for the paper. And their longtime sports columnist Phil Anastasia is our guest Phil has now been for many years with the Philadelphia Inquirer in similar roles. Phil, thanks so much for joining us.
Phil Anastasia
My pleasure, Steve.
Steve Martorano
You must be hafing at the bit as well, to get back to your beat, I know that guys in your business now have had to start writing about anything they could write about while they wait for sports to come back. Tell us a little bit about your background. How did you wind up essentially covering youth sports?
Phil Anastasia
Well, Steve I actually got into business because as you mentioned them from a family that includes another journalist, that's my older brother George, who's a longtime organized crime writer who's written several books and a longtime reporter for the Philadelphia Inquirer. He's now retired, but when he was involved in journalism, you know, I was still in school. So I, you know, kind of had a first hand look at what the business was like. So what it was like for him and so, you know, I kind of gravitated towards this field. Like my br other, you know, we were deeply involved with sports growing up. I mean, we played everything, not saying we're great athletes, but we played everything. And I was an English major in college and so to me it was kind of being able to put together two things that I really loved which was reading and writing and sports and so I kind of you know lean towards becoming a more of a sports reporter than a traditional reporter which my brother is so that's how I got involved I was lucky enough you know like anything else that good timing got out of college just as the Courier Post, you know, had some opportunities there for for cub reporters to get started. I got started there and you know, kind of away from away I went from there talking over 40 years now but that's how it all started so long and
Steve Martorano
Hard to believe right? 40 years
Phil Anastasia
No kidding. No kidding. It's it's been a it's been a great ride but it's been a little bumpy these last little bit here.
Steve Martorano
Yeah, for for everybody. Now, you have also covered the pros as well, right?
Phil Anastasia
That's correct. I you know, when I started at the Courier Post. Like most cub reporters, I started out as a high school writer, early on, quickly transitioned to do a lot of college basketball. I did a ton of Philadelphia's Big Five basketball through them all through the 80s. I did a lot of college basketball and at the same time in '83 I became an Eagles beat writer. So I did the Eagles as a beat man for 10 years from 83 to 92. And then in 93, I became a general columnist, which basically means you're right about everything in sports. So I did Eagles, Phillies Flyers, Sixers, college sports in high school sports at that time, and then actually had a little stint as the sports editor of the Courier Post for six years before coming to the Inquirer in 2008. So my career I spent 28 years at the Courier Post , which was my hometown newspaper to you've grown up, hmm you know, read the Courier Post , I spent 28 years there. And now my 13th year at the Philadelphia Inquirer
Steve Martorano
One of the great suburban newspapers, you know, in certainly anywhere but certainly in this area beat up when you know, I'm a little older than you not I don't think I'm older than you brother but who is? George is an old pal. But I've you know, when I when I was growing up, covering youth sports in a paper like the Courier Post, which was you know, ground central for suburban youth sports in our area, it was pretty much confined to maybe a paragraph but most often just box scores when did that all start to change and they started to look at youth sports as for real beat what in your experience when when did that happen?
Phil Anastasia
Yeah, I think it was a little bit more a little bit before my time when I you know, I got there and at and in the 70s. I think it expanded out a little bit and thenThe whole time I was there it just kept expanding out we we eventually created a product called Varsity which was a Saturday only standalone high school sports section that people just went crazy for it was like 12-pages long and just about every sport had its own page. So it kind of evolved you know more and more as time went on and I think to paper got a little bit more sophisticated readers got a little bit more demanding. That was a really I think of kind of a golden age of local coverage what we've seen in the last five to 10 years as the newspaper industry, you know, has suffered so many shocks economically and in terms of people migrating to the web and having different sources of their information is been a real cutback in local sports coverage and, you know, it's not nearly what it used to be. And it's sad It's a shame for people who remember the old days i mean i'm i'm at the Inquirer now and just this past winter we discontinued running like the basketball box scores for high school basketball and if you can imagine see these old times Philadelphia Catholic league people they could not understand how they could get their Inquirer you know and not see who scored for Bonner last night. How to get you know, how did how did Archbishop Wood do this now, you know, might wait a minute, my grandson's friend plays for Neumann Goretti. I can't see you know what he did last night.
Steve Martorano
You know, this rising covering of you sports is kind of a double edged sword. It seems to me that you say it predated you a bit you started in the early '80s. And I think it the rise in covering it more closely and in depth probably coincided with the rise of ESPN, 24 hour news cycles for sports, to the point where it's even with the cutbacks you're talking about now. The media has elevated youth sports to, you know, a practical equivalency with certainly college sports. I mean, there's a lot of youth sports, I'm thinking particularly a basketball, which, you know, can be viewed as a big time deal in the journalistic world. I wonder if you've watched that and wondered it over the long haul? Was it good for kids to be taken that seriously as athletes at that young age? What do you what do you think about that?
My general answer would be no. And again, that's a generalization and certainly I'm not saying it damaged a majority of kids. I just think, generally speaking, I think some of the innocence of youth sports has been lost in -- it's actually a big business now, and I'm not talking about high school now, as much as I'm talking about independent youth sports is a billion dollar industry, all these travel teams in these different national tournaments they run and the sort of the quest for college scholarships, which is driven. youth sports. To every parent that your kid needs to sign up for this camp, go to this clinic work out with this individual trainer because that's going to increase his or her chances to get a college scholarship is something that's really exploded. I think in the last, I'd say 20 years or so. And what you and I and I think a lot of people sort of romanticize in terms of sports being sort of more innocent kids kind of playing The Sandlot pickup games. without parental involvement without adult involvement is really kind of a thing of the past. You really don't ride past a field and I'm not talking about now code but I mean, just in general, you rarely ride past a field and see a kid playing a pickup baseball game you know, like like Sandlot?Yeah, you don't see that anymore. It's all well, my son signed up for this 8 and under travel team or he's on this, you know, 10 and under, you know, this team or that team, it's just it's, it's different now it's become much more organized, much more parent driven, much more adult driven. And you know, and not to paint with a broad brush, there are positive aspects to that kids are getting some good competition, good exposure, most of those people are involved for the right reasons. Not all, but most of them, I think are Yeah, it wasn't gonna mean to paint with a...
No, no, no, no, but it's really worth it. It's right in our wheelhouse here because we want to talk about the way we behave, and how our behavior affects our health or mental health or physical health. We know that activity is great for kids, what you just described is largely parent driven, and for understandable reasons, but when the kid size I mean, some of the some of the dangers are mitigated by the fact that for the most part at some point, and it happens earlier and earlier, you're talking about an elite kid who's on these travel teams, I mean, he, he, he or she are probably going to want that level of competition anyway. But it was parent driven, it is now a big business as you point out, there are an enormous pressures put on families and children. And that all has a definite bearing on you know, kids psyches and the family in fact, as a unit, the family's behavioral health is impacted by by all of this pressure. So now we are going to pivot and a little bit towards how those pressures are now magnified enormously as we try to get these kids back on the field in the middle of a pandemic, but before we get to that, just a little more exploration of the whole idea of youth sports so you know, you've done the Eagles, you've done the pros, you've done big time college basketball, but you did gravitate back towards, I guess it's your first love and that's youth sports and why what's better about that and covering the Eagles, for instance.
Phil Anastasia
Well for me, it was a combination of things. I'm, like I said, I had done the pro stuff for a long time, probably 20-25 years of my career, were involved in covering it a big time college or the Eagles or all the Philadelphia professional sports. I always said, You know, I began my career covering high school sports. So I wanted to end my career covering high school sports. I really love high school sports. I just, I love the fact that and again, this is a generalization. I love the fact that, you know, you're still kind of representing your hometown, you're still kind of representing the school where you're where your parents went, or where your aunt and uncle when are you where your brother and sister went, you're still kind of representing the school, that the guy that works in the grocery store or the mailman is going to come and watch you that day. And he went there also, she went there also, and I love that aspect of it. I love this the tradition of it that you know, Haddon Heights is always going to be wearing you know the Garnet and Gold. Haddonfield is always going to wear the red and the black and you know there's fathers and grandfathers and great grandfather's that represented the same school and it's a tradition there. That that really appeals to me. I think there's still a lot of innocence to it. When you compare it to big time college or professional sports, there is pressure, there's no question but there's nothing you know, nothing like what you see at the next level, there's still a certain amount of innocence to it. The kids are great to deal with the coaches. By and large and I'm talking overwhelming majority are really good people involved for the right reasons that really just want the kids to have a great experience and to reap the benefits of being part of the team putting something bigger than yourself in front of it and sacrificing for your teammates and also, all that just really appeals to me and oh, and always has and you know, it's one of the reasons I was so sad, you know, obviously, we're talking big picture here. So sad to see, you know, high school basketball end this year before it could really finish and no spring sports for, you know, just millions of seniors who didn't have their senior baseball season or senior cross season or senior softball season. So I just really think it's a real integral part of school life and integral part of society. And I'm hoping so badly, Steve, that it comes back.
Steve Martorano
Yeah, there's a real price to pay. I mean, you know, I don't suggest anything dramatic is going to happen. But you're right. A lot of kids have lost something significant. That will have some sort of negative effect on you know, their, their mental state going forward. Let's just stay with this area, the general area before we get into the COVID stuff, you know, lots of the stories have been you know, negative over the years about hazing rituals and kinds of stuff that naturally gets gets itself in the newspapers and on television. But there's a whole lot about youth sports that I think we've we've forgotten about and taken for granted, my kids played my son longer than my daughter, but I remember being most appreciative of the amount of time young athletes have to put into it. Whatever skill level they're at, if they make a team, they have to make a commitment to time. And that's really important when somebody young because you know, idle hands in the devil's workshop and all that you see it that way. Let's talk a little bit about some of the values of playing youth sports.
Phil Anastasia
Generally speaking, most coaches and most parents want their kids involved for you know, reasons other than we're going to win or we're going to earn a scholarship. We're going to learn some life lessons here we're going to learn what it means to commit yourself to a larger group we're going to learn what it means to sacrifice we're going to learn the value of hard work and I want to get better how do I get better? Well I don't get better by sitting home on the couch I get better by exercising or trying this skill are working out and and the other thing, Steve, and I'm a big, big big believer in this is learning that you will fail -- you will fail at times -- and that's okay and there are going to be people that are better than you at that particular skill or that particular sport and that's okay too. You know some others to be a book like everything I needed to learn I learned in kindergarten I you know, I say that about you sport I actually said about wrestling and some people think I'm crazy because they look at wrestling they're like are you kidding me? And and I tell people and this is just wrestling but it really applies all you sports. I think I tell people anything that you want a young boy to learn, he can learn in wrestling. Now there is some because of the nature of wrestling, there is some craziness around that ring. There are some crazy parents, there are some crazy coaches, there are some people that because of the combative nature of the sport tends to bring out maybe the worst angels of their nature of their other nature. But if you have a coach and a parent who has a good handle on it, man, everything you want a young boy to learn, he can learn in a wrestling room in terms of self discipline. It's all on you your responsibility, how hard you work is what you'll get back. And I think in a broader sense, that really does apply to every no just wrestling is unique.
Steve Martorano
Wrestling is unique and it's sort of a one on one kind of thing, but it is in the team context with the other thing that it seems to me from a behavioral health standpoint that is irreplaceable for young people, when they play organized sports is the ability need to learn how to work in a group. And we only have to look around now and see how tragically we are not able to get along, during a monumental crisis, to see some of the failures here that are going on, that should have been taught, or have were taught and forgotten. In team sports, team sports teaches you more than anything else, that we're all in this together, we all succeed together, or we all fail together. You don't learn that algebra class, you don't you learn something else, but you don't learn. We're all in this together. I sometimes worry that that's being lost too.
Phil Anastasia
You know, that's a concern. And there's a, you know, there's an atomization of our society, we seem to be splintered in so many different directions. And then and then we look for -- I think we look for institutions that can still hold us together. And you know, some people say that, you know, religion used to be able to do that and can't quite do it to the, to the extent and the breath that it used to and community center in different organizations, whether it's the Elks or the, you know, the Moose or whoever they are the Lions Club or the, you know, who, you know, whatever group used to be able to hold things together and different community organizations. School, I think can still do that, to a large extent it's created sort of a community network, in school sports, in particular, youth sports in particular, can kind of create that sense of community. And also, as I mentioned, the sense of shared sacrifice and also the sense of responsibility to your teammate. I mean, that's one of the things that I think is most valuable about sports. And I mentioned wrestling and it is an individual sport, but it's also a team sport. The only sport where you can lose and still win because you didn't get pinned, you stay off your back. That is something that I think is an inherent value in all...
Steve Martorano
Yeah, I agree with you.
Phil Anastasia
...shared sacrifice and responsibility to others and you know, I'm part of something bigger than myself and I think we've lost a lot of that in our society for a variety of reasons. But sports I think still sort of reinforces those lessons to a large extent
Steve Martorano
Phil Anastasia is with us we're talking youth sports not because we're, you know, hoop heads or anything, although we are but because it's important and we're going to pick up on the conversation and get a little deeper and what happens with all this activity when you have to plan for it and get ready for perhaps, you know, activities involved around safety from COVID-19 -- right on the Behavioral Corner.
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Steve Martorano
Phil, let's pivot now talk a little bit about COVID. Because I know you have opinions. Now you're certainly not a pediatrician or a CDC expert. None of us are here. But you've seen you've seen the guidances that have been issued for all these athletic programs. They're going ahead as though there's going to be fall sports in many locations around the country. This in spite of the fact we don't even know how we can open the schools effectively, but what's your general sense of the chances that they will actually have, for instance, football or basketball at the high school level in the near future?
Phil Anastasia
I think it's 50-50. At this point, I think when it comes to High School board, Steve, that has to go hand in hand with the reopening of the schools and getting that to work and seeing that that works. If we are able to figure that out and come up with a model that works for opening the schools and keeping them open, then I think extracurricular activities can eventually be worked into that formula in some way, shape or form, probably not the way we're used to seeing them in the past abbreviated schedules kind of thing less travel, that kind of stuff. But I think if they can figure out the school conundrum, which you know, the entire country is kind of going crazy right now trying to figure this out. I know a lot of people in education I'm sure you do. Also, they're just pulling their hair out trying to figure this out all for the right reason. Yep, they want to do it. They know is how important it is to the kids, and the teachers, to the parents, it's so complicated. There's so many moving parts. But if that is able to be added, it'll be a hidden Miss kind of thing I understand they're not going to, they're not going to create some here's the model, and it's on September 1, and it's going to work, they're going to have to do some adjustments. But if they can figure that out, then I think extracurricular activities, including sports will then follow. So I'm hopeful. I would not say I'm confident, you know, sports has its own little complications to what we're already talking about it. It's very, very complicated.
Steve Martorano
Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, you know, if you think getting a math class safely put together is difficult. consider a football practice. The CDC has a whole list of guidelines. And I just gonna throw a couple of these out at you that they've listed in terms of ranking them from the lowest risk to the highest risk, and one of those things parents can keep in mind now, what they should do. The CDC has at the lowest risk that certainly performance building drills, and conditionings that can be done either at home alone, or among smaller groups is the lowest risk. That's a good idea. If you're a student athlete, you can be thinking about something like that right now. Right?
Phil Anastasia
Well, Steve, there's, I think you should have been thinking of it all along. And I know, I know, most of them were, I mean, even when we were in the teeth of it in, you know, in April, kids weren't going out and exercise. And they should have been, both from a physical standpoint and from a sort of a mental, emotional standpoint, just to kind of burn off steam. So yeah, I don't think there's any reason that you know, as a parent, you should have any misgivings about your kid going running around a track or doing some kind of aerobic activity to kind of build up stamina, any kind of running or something like that. It's when we get further down the line when we're talking about close interaction or kind of bumping into each other sweat on each other.
Steve Martorano
Let's talk about team -- like team based practices. Well, I can't, I can conceive of a baseball team easily practicing. Yeah, or even a basketball team to a lesser extent but I can't imagine football being coached once was played under these circumstances. Can you imagine that? How would it work?
Phil Anastasia
Well, it's funny because I was speaking to a coach the other night on the phone, a guy named Timmy Gushue has been at Shawnee High School for 40 years or whatever. And he told me, you know, I have these guidelines now because they're starting workouts this week, just just preliminary workouts, nothing, nothing major. He said everything I've learned from his 40 years, I gotta throw out the window because we have to do things so differently with pods and there could only be 10 kids in a pod and, you know, drills have to be run in a different way. I mean, it's certainly nothing like we've seen before in terms of each sports specific drill or activity that that is related to that particular sport, every sports a little bit different like, like you said, I think baseball, the nature of it, you have some social distancing there the nature of its football completely different. I'm hopeful, Steve, you know, and I'm coming at this from the, from the standpoint of someone who wants to see it happen, and doesn't want to sound like an alarmist. And in all honesty, I mean, I have to express my own ignorance. I don't know. You know, I don't know what the right number of kids on a field is. I don't know whether a kid in a helmet stand next to another kid and a helmet. are they putting each other risk? I don't know the answer to that. All I can do is say, you know, there are experts who are going to put guidelines in place and then it's the responsibility of the coaches to kind of implement that and maintain those protocols. For me to say, you know, what would work or what wouldn't work or this makes sense to me or doesn't make sense to me? Frankly, I'd be speaking from a position of ignorance, I really don't know.
Steve Martorano
You know, parents who take a tremendously active role in their kids lives and sports in particular, you mentioned the, the, you know, the caricature of the overbearing parent. We're not talking about any of that. Now, are you hearing from coaches? Are you hearing from parents who are saying, should I let my kids do this? What What should I do?
Phil Anastasia
There's no question that that is sort of a factor in all this. I mean, I think it's a huge factor in the reopening of schools. And if you and I both know, one of the driving forces in education, and negative driving force in education for the last, however many years has been fear of litigation. I mean, that drives so many decisions in our society now. So I think one of the things you're going to see in terms of this come back and I'm not this is no great insight I'm sure you've heard this before we've read this before, is schools and teams trying to protect themselves from any kind of liability. So that goes to the parent sort of saying you're putting my kids at risk on anything. I think there's going to be waivers that people are going to have to sign you know, there's going to be that kind of thing -- does that hold up in a court of law if your kid gets sick, God forbid your kids get seriously sick? I have no again, I'm speaking from a position of ignorance but but again, that's that's another complicating factor in all this and parents for good reason and for all the right reasons, you know, are concerned about the safety of their kids and, and I get that and the absolute flip side of that, Steve, is parents are concerned about the mental health of their children. Yep, they need to get outside they need to interact with other kids. They need sports or band or choir or whatever their extracurricular activity is. And so they're being damaged mentally if they don't have that that's concern in itself. So it is it is just a wildly complicated, you know, scenario that we're looking at here. Everybody wants to do the right thing. There's no question everybody's in it for the right reasons. But the guidance itself continues to change as our understanding of the virus changes. You know, a lot of people I think, are have been critical of some scientists and medical people because they've kind of changed their tune a little bit, but I think that's how science works. Yeah, exactly. Find out more and you have adjust your, your guideline and your models.
Steve Martorano
Yeah, don't trust the scientist. It won't change his mind. That's for sure. You know, what we're proving right now. It's much easier to talk about these problems than to try to figure them out.But again, parents are confronted with this stuff. Kids are paid a you know, they, for the most part, they paid a the same kind of price we've all paid with, with the separations and all that, but at a younger age and an age when it's really not the best thing that could possibly happen for them. So, you know, nobody wants to say it, but if it happens, it happens. I think you're right, though, if they can figure out the sports thing, they can probably use that as a model to get kids back in the classrooms, which we all desperately, desperately need. Here's the final thing, and then they're gonna let you go. Even if they put it all together, and it's safe to form the team and it's safe to in fact compete. You know, it's one thing for the pros to say we won't play in front of crowds, because they still have a television audience. Which is where the money is anyway. I can't imagine Friday nights under the lights with just kids playing football. Can you?
Phil Anastasia
No. In fact in New Jersey, and it's only going now they're they're doing something called the last dance which is a baseball tournament that they put together. Basically involving high school teams there's like 200 teams involved to try to give baseball teams a chance to kind of get together and play one last time the kids that didn't play this past spring so it's ongoing now, Steve, they've had a, they've had first round kind of pool play last weekend, they're starting the second second phase of it this week. Those games, Steve, were stuffed with spectators. Stuffed with spectators. Just because the people were number one people are just dying to go house I guess number two, they were dying to finally see some youth sports. You know, and number three was just, you know, it was it was an opportunity to see your kid or your kid that lives down the street or your nephew or your grandson. So, and one of the things you know -- to circle back where we started -- one of the one of the things I love about high school sports in particular, is the fact that you go to a game on a Friday night, you know, there's a guy sitting there the played on in the '72 team and there's a guy the next row back that played on the '57. And you know, there's that history and tradition there and, and and you know, there's the kids that aren't on the team, but they're out supporting their classmates and their schoolmates and wearing all the same colors and there's a student section chatting at the other school students section. I mean, that's part of the allure of of it all and, and you take that away, it's just a bunch of 16 year olds playing out in the field. It's just it's not the same...
Steve Martorano
It's not the same and here's the quote, I'll leave you with. I pulled this one out of nowhere. The let me see if I got it right. "The battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton." This is big stuff. Kids need to play. I hope they get back. Phil Anastasia, the Philadelphia Inquirer. It's been great, Phil. Thanks.
Phil Anastasia
My pleasure, Steve. Thank you.
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