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The Body Brokers. The business of buying misery.

Sep 25, 2022

The Behavioral Corner’s film reviewers, The Movie Mavens, break down the film “The Body Brokers,” a dark look at substance abuse treatment marketing.
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Ep. 122 Grace Shober and Maggie Hunt - Movie Mavens - Podcast Transcript

Steve Martorano 
The Behavioral Corner is produced in partnership with Retreat Behavioral Health -- where healing happens.

The Behavioral Corner 
Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano, and this is the Behavioral Corner; you're invited to hang with us as we've discussed the ways we live today, the choices we make, the things we do, and how they affect our health and wellbeing. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner. Please hang around a while.

Steve Martorano 
Hi, everybody, welcome to the Behavioral Corner. I should have the lights dim in here because we're going to be talking about movies and we should be sitting in the dark when they do that. My name is Steve Martorano. We hang out here and we talk about everything because everything, as it turns out, ultimately affects our behavioral health. And therein lies the reason I get to do this. So it's a wonderful, wonderful time. Made all possible, of course, by our great partners, Retreat Behavioral Health. They not only provide spiritual and financial help you get this podcast on, but they are a great resource for talented people who know what they're talking about, which is rare in this culture. So hang around, hope you will we got a good one for you. Another in a series of I gotta be honest, my favorite thing that we do on the Corner, it's the Movie Mavens movie review, where we look at Hollywood and television and all that stuff, and how they depict substance abuse disorder, and mental health issues and both with an eye towards going "Well, it's a good movie, but it's not the truth." Or, "That was a terrible movie and it wasn't the truth." And we tried to get a little closer to what Hollywood is telling us about something our guests know intimately and they are Maggie Hunt and Grace Shober. They are the Movie Mavens. Hi, ladies.

Grace Shober 
Hi.

Steve Martorano 
Well, we got another movie to review. And the way we like to do it is you know, we look around and if anybody has a suggestion, then we go for it. So the ladies put their minds together, and they came up with something called Body Brokers. Body Brokers, I was not familiar with this film. So thank you, girls, for pointing this out to me. And I will begin with the description. And you'll get an idea of what we're talking about. And I'm going to do it verbatim. So you know that these are not my words. All right, "Brought to Los Angeles for treatment, but recovering junkie, soon learns that the rehab center is not about helping people. But it's a cover for a multibillion-dollar fraud operation that enlists addicts to recruit other addicts. Doodly doo doodly doo doo doo. Okay, so that's the movie, ladies. Fire away. Mag, would you think?

Maggie Hunt 
At first, I thought maybe the movie was like based, if not, like totally, totally based on a true story. But that is, I mean, there's a lot of things about California and Florida and marketers for treatment centers. And so a lot of the things that they talked about, or that you saw in the movie were true, . True, even up until a couple of years ago. True even though it probably is still happening in some places. As soon as people found out that they could make a buck off of people who were suffering and struggling. The amount of money that comes as like being paid to these places is ridiculous. You know, and just to kind of give the audience here a little bit of perspective. So if I own a treatment center, and I want to take people at my treatment center, I want to charge their insurance. And out-of-network insurance can get for PHP -- let's say they might get for PHP, which is five days a week, sometimes seven days a week -- they may get $2,000 a day just for like a short period of the day that they are in treatment during the day. They also can get more money for urine tests, they also can get more money for medication-assisted treatment, etc. And so the facility has somebody come into treatment. And they'll say, "Hey, do you have any friends who also need to come into this treatment center? And if you do have friends and you bring friends, we'll pay you $500 to bring them also in. And to somebody who's like a struggling drug addict $500 is like the most epic amount of money ever. And so...

Grace Shober 
Even if you're not a struggling drug addict, it, for me, is the most epic amount ever.

Maggie Hunt 
True. Also true, but you know...

Steve Martorano 
It's astonishing...it's astonishing for someone like me, who's never been in that situation, to imagine a system where someone manages against great odds to find themselves in front of somebody at a treatment facility, right? I mean, that's a miracle. Right? And they're sitting there and in the middle of it, they find out they can make $500 because if you know anybody else, of course, you know, everybody you know is struggling, right? So you're gonna give me $500. Now tell me if I'm wrong. At that moment doesn't somebody in that situation begins fantasizing about how high they can get on $500?

Maggie Hunt 
Oh, yeah.

Steve Martorano 
So the whole thing becomes self-defeating at that moment.

Maggie Hunt 
Yes. Does that still happen in some places? Absolutely. But it also makes people want to avoid treatment overall. And like, the problem is, is that treatment is what actually does work for people. And so it's frustrating because, you know, obviously, some of the things were, they were based on experiences that this guy had had. And so some of the things are definitely true. Like, even for myself when I was watching it like I was like, I don't even ever want to go back. I don't even it's terrible to even think that this happens, but it does.

Grace Shober 
So, here's a little bit of like something in my perspective is, it's terrible, right? The whole thing is terrible. I get it. But at the same time, when I was in treatment, I was never like, and I went to California for treatment and the place that I went to got shut down for this exact thing. Okay. Everything else? But can I tell you how pissed I am that as somebody who had no money and wasn't struggling droid back then No, buddy offered me money? Never had it ever happened to me. People were like, Oh, you have somebody that you know, and we'll give you 500 bucks. Nope, I was broke. And you have no idea that would have never happened to me. Although, like, all that is terrible, though. So um, you know, but yeah, absolutely. I think it definitely happened more back even like when I was getting sober. And when like mags were getting sober too, and stuff like that, because that's just what it was like in Florida and California, for sure. I'm sure it happened in other places too. But that's just like,

Steve Martorano 
It's the endless irony of money. Coming into any system, intended to do anything. Cyndi Lauper said it best "Money changes everything." I mean, it just does. My problem with this film is that he focuses on the bad actors as though they are the norm rather than the exception. And they are...they are being run out of the business -- not run out so much is just squeezed out. Because, you know, the truth of the matter is you can get treatment. There's money available, no matter what, you don't have to be selling each other to get treatment. So they focus on the bad actors here. And I have a bit of a problem with that. I want you two to address it. Because I would point out an article in the newspaper just yesterday, where the government has indicted 47 people in Minnesota or somewhere who they alleged stole $470 million in pandemic food aid money that was supposed to go to children. Where's the money? Bad guys will show up. And certainly, with substance abuse treatment, they were and they were there not only in abundance but early on. Or early on, they saw an opportunity. So Grace, so you're...what...first of all, let me ask you something. There are two sorts of geographical locations that have these horrible reputations. Maggie said once Florida, you know, there's California isn't the climate that lures people there? Why did you...how'd you wind up in California, Grace?

Grace Shober 
I will plead the fifth on one thing of what...where...like who sent me there, but I got sent there. And I was sent there from a treatment center because there was like a recovery house out there. There was extended care. So there was not like the...I don't know, Mags. This isn't like having quite as much like the extended care thing anymore. It was like another 30, 60 or 90 days of treatment. But somewhere else, that wasn't the place that you were at. So maybe like a small step down. It's not quite as like inpatient. It's more like PHP with housing type thing, which there is like a bunch of that around. But I think that it used to be called like extended care or something like that. Maybe it still is; I'm not totally sure. But I was sent there. And definitely, the climate has something to do with it. I think I mean, look, I mean, Florida is like always warm. California is always warm. There's no humidity there. So it's even better. You're by the beaches. It's just like really like enticing you know, to people like oh, you're gonna be on the beach in Malibu. That sounds pretty good to somebody who just was homeless on the streets in York and Reading not too long ago.

Steve Martorano 
When I lived in Malibu, you're right. It is better than York with all due respect to York. In fact, the bad actors in this field. It's not like they built the environment from the ground up. There were no guardrails there, it was the Wild West. Again, the irony of the Affordable Care Act, which is a blessing. It's as close as we apparently are going to get to universal health care to this country for the moment anyway opened the floodgates, and then they just went well. This is a gold rush. Let's get in there and steel with both hands. A couple of items, though, that we should address in the film, specifically, Michael Williams, the actor who plays Wood, the recruiter who brings a young protagonist in. The protagonist, incidentally, did you recognize him as Val Kilmer's son?

Grace Shober 
I did not.

Maggie Hunt 
Oh my God, no. That's interesting.

Steve Martorano 
Val Kilmer and Deb...Deborah Wally. Their son and Michael Williams legendary character from the Wire, are featured in the movie. But so we want to talk about this a little bit from a...the weeds of the movie, talk about the characters -- Utah, the young substance abuser who decides he needs help, in spite of the fact his girlfriend wants nothing to do with it, he goes and gets a treatment. Tell us about the portrayal of intake when he meets, I think her name is Mei, the young girl who was the first person he talks to in the treatment facility. Did that ring true to you, Grace?

Grace Shober 
Yeah, it did. And I have more of like a sense of humor, like a dry sense of humor. I like to make jokes out of, like, everything, but like, first and foremost, the names bother me. The whole thing, the names bother me. Utah would, it's just, but, I mean, it is pretty similar. I mean, they try and make you feel like really comfortable. You know, they're like, Oh, this is ...this is gonna be good. And we're gonna, like, help you through. So like the intake process, really, I didn't...it's kind of...that is how it is, you know like people are there. They're friendly. They're trying to help you out. I mean, there's some places that aren't friendly and try to be like word ---------- I don't think there's much that strays from that particular point.

Steve Martorano 
Thanks for this thing about the names. That's a pet peeve of mine. They never explain why a kid from Cleveland has called Utah. But kind of cool name, I guess, I don't know, the thing about thousands of dollars for drug testing. I mean, I remember they busted lots of people for doing that. How prevalent is that, Mag?

Maggie Hunt 
Oh, yeah, I mean, recovery houses were doing it recovery houses who like, you know, can buy over-the-counter drug tests, were charging people's insurance---crazy...I mean, the amount of money that they were getting for urine tests. And then they were giving multiple urine tests each week trying to say like that they were, you know, random, you know, but the problem is, is that the families on the back end would get verification of benefits or they would get like you know, an invoice be like, "Why are you doing so many drug tests?" It's...it's just crazy, you know, like, they would call it like a "pee farm," these places, and they were just like, you know, they wouldn't even like send it out...really...I don't think, Grace, right? Like they would just test it right there. But then, like, get all this money for these. Crazy.

Grace Shober 
Yeah, places definitely would. What I mean, it just...I don't know how they thought they wouldn't get caught. Like, first of all, like...like, let me just say like, for Grace House, like it's out of our own pocket that we drugged as people and it's not like all the time. It's like once a week, it's like, maybe random. But yeah, the people who are doing that are there definitely just...I just don't know how to get away with it. It never even crossed our minds, you know, to do something like that.

Steve Martorano 
Why would it cost $2,000, to begin with?

Grace Shober 
Yeah, they're able to charge that amount because all of a sudden insurance companies were -- and it's great that they cover like treatment -- and like, you know, all that kind of stuff inpatient and outpatient, but they're able to bill this high amount, especially like Maggie said, if it's like out a network or you know, something like that, or, or even a place that doesn't take insurance like a recovery house, they're able to charge that highest amount for like a drug test.

Steve Martorano 
We're meeting again with the Movie Mavens, Maggie Hunt, and Gray Shober. We take a look at films that are alleged to be...not alleged to be...but are about substance abuse or mental health issues. And then kind of dismantled it, as you can see. A case in point is Body Brokers. Anybody interested in this should take a look at it. Because it is an example, as the ladies both said, of, certainly what happens negatively in this...in this arena. But you also get a great opportunity to see a cheesy movie and operation. It looks right. You know that people can act. It's not like they can't act, but they just weren't a lot of thought put into this. Anyway. It's called the Body Brokers; I don't know, it's only a couple of years old. It's not, not worth looking at. Now, we'll get to the nitty-gritty here now, since it's an indictment of bad treatment facilities that were only in it for money. But it focuses on their marketing efforts. It's not as though they set up shop, and then people came, and they ripped them off. The film depicts a war room. There's no other way to describe that call center. Then a war room, the kind of call centers you see in movies that indict Wall Street, you know, boiler rooms where they're pumping and dumping stock and, you know, bad places where people have no scruples and error about ripping people off. You both have backgrounds in marketing as employees of Retreat Behavioral Health. Tell me about that marketing room and that guy that they go in and talk to that...that scummy kid is just delighting in lying to people. Does that had the ring of truth to it?

Maggie Hunt 
I want to say it doesn't, but it does. You know, I mean, I...I think the biggest thing that I took away from this was like because there were some facilities that absolutely that they love. If that way and there were, you know, the more that I stay in "marketing' the more that I realized that so does all of the health care. So in all of the different positions of health care, especially right now in this field, like there's marketing because it's such a competitive field. And so like Retreat has marketers because we want to be present at community events, you know because we don't even call ourselves really like marketers anymore. We'll call ourselves a "community relations representatives." Because we want to go and be out in the community and we want to be represented, you know, we want to represent Retreat at some of these things. We want to go to hospitals and talk about it, because hospitals don't necessarily know what resources are out there for substance use disorder, even today, in 2022. But like the marketing field overall itself, in places that are not an in-network provider, you know, they have, you can slap together a treatment program and get it approved by the Department of Drug and Alcohol programs pretty quickly. And that's, like, embarrassing to say, for those of us who like to want to try to remain as ethical as possible. But I mean, the standards that are not necessarily Pennsylvania, because Pennsylvania is a little bit higher end in terms of like what they're going to expect. But like in Florida, it's, you know, you'll have it right in a strip mall, it will be like in an outpatient, right in a strip mall, and it gets approved, and then you can start to bill insurance. So there's. Definitely, there's definitely the truth that's associated with it. And there are definitely call centers that are going to be like that. Because if you know that you as an employee, take away the patients out of it completely right, take away the person, and you have to completely isolate yourself from the human being that you're working with. You're bringing in more business, you know, if let's say if it's an inpatient business, right, and you're bringing in thousands of dollars per day, with a 30-day range of time, like, you know, like, all right, like, as an employee, if we're talking, let's say we're talking about, I don't have cell phones, that's awesome that in sales that you're going to bring in that much, you're going to generate that much income, you know, what your worth is like, to an employee to a place you recognize like, well, I'm bringing in this much money, that means I'm going to get paid this much money. But when you put a few real live human beings in it...

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. Yeah. It's not like selling...it's not like selling cell phones. You're right. But the measurement, though...you're right...the measurement, how you are judged as a valuable employee is the same paradigm as if you were selling, you know, the same cars. How much revenue are you generating? Right? That's what always struck me as...as difficult now, ingratiate would be terrible, it would be a tragedy, if the good actors in this field, and listen, yeah, Retreat pays the bills around here. But I've known these people a long time. I have seen what they do. These are the people that if they said, we're not going to market because we don't want to be involved in that household, then it would be a tragedy because the public would know about the good people.

Grace Shober 
Here's the ridiculous part. So we're in the business of helping people. First, we're, and so it's like Great House and recovery houses, everyplace. But the first word in business, we have to be able to keep the doors open. You know, like, it's not that, you know, just because we have marketers and marketers are going out to like, keep the word alive actually be like a representative to like, I've known so many people that have needed to go to treatment. And they can immediately instead of like calling the 800 number and this and that. They could call Maggie, you know, a Mag and be like, "Alright, let me help you with this with the insurance and everything else because it's a lot." But, you know, marketers and treatment centers, they get a bad rap, but it's like, some of them are bad. Look, it is what it is. There are bad recovery houses, there are bad treatment centers, there's bad cops or whatever, you know, but there's more good than bad. So like when we have Retreat, who has people out there spreading the word being a direct line to somebody who needs treatment? Because treatment is vital. We can't like the turn our nose up at them. We have to keep the doors open somehow. Right? And like, yeah, and just like you don't like the person who's listening to me right now., okay? You don't go to work for free. Right? Like, you can't go to work for free. You can't do like go do things like if you open up a business, you're gonna want money revenue, so you're gonna go out and like market and put fliers out and be on...whatever. You know, it's not just because anybody who does that doesn't mean that they're bad, you know, but what I will say is like the guy in the movie, I'm blanking on his name, okay, it had me laughing because I like literally, that's what like in my mind body burger looks like with the gelled slicked up hair and like the, you know, Jersey type. It just had me laughing, You know, because I know people like that kind of like look like that whatever. And it was funny, but...

Steve Martorano 
They didn't spend a lot of time fleshing out a lot of character development here. But these people were representatives of types, and it was easy to pick them out. You're right that guy...that guy should have had a neon sign over his head that said, "I'm slimy."

Grace Shober 
Maybe it sounds like a little bit cheesy, I guess. But at the same time, like I mean, they got the characters pretty down.

Steve Martorano 
Oh yeah, for sure, real people. Let me ask you -- you mentioned the recovery house, and they went right over it. They did. They don't refer to that home, where Utah visits and would visit to pay off the older woman who's running the place. They don't characterize that as a sober living facility. But that's pretty much what it was. Don't you think? Grace?

Grace Shober 
Yeah, I mean, it was. I mean, the thing is, like, we never did or accept, like any type of like money compensation, you know, from any treatment center. You know, so if that's what they were doing, it was just like one of those things that I was saying, like, there are bad recovery houses that are in it for like, the wrong reason. But yeah, I would, I would definitely say that that's what it was.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, yeah. And it's why it's taken a long time for sober, and I know, I'm asking you this because your family and you are intimately involved in soberly living facilities through your Grace...Grace House. It's taken that aspect of recovery a long time to come out of the shadow of these...these ideas. That's why people who don't want them in their neighborhoods and are worried about their being in the neighborhoods...

Grace Shober 
You just keep doing what you're doing. And the proof is in the pudding, you know, so like, over the last 11 years that we've been open, and like literally, almost as long as Retreat happened right after Retreat. And just like Retreat, there's been treatment centers that have popped up, okay? Retreat stood the test of time, right? It's been here. It hasn't gone anywhere. It's even open more places like Grace House, and it's been here. It hasn't gone anywhere. And there's been recovery houses open, close, open, close, open, close. Same with like, you know, treatment centers and Retreat, like stands still, you know, because they are doing it the way it's supposed to be done. Not saying that we don't make...people don't make money. I mean, it's crazy to think that we should, "Oh, just let everybody in for free." And that's just not the way things work. You know, absolutely like to have something to complain about.

Steve Martorano 
There are a couple of reasons I think people don't believe treatment works. One is depictions of the worst characters in the field, you know, sort of predominantly, so people go look, they're all scum...scummy people. And the other thing is that people believe it doesn't work. "Well, what are you talking about? They've been in and out 14 times. It doesn't work." And I, you know, I've gotten to the point now where I go, "No, you understand the fact that they're been in treatment 14 times means it is working. At least they're not dead yet. Okay?" It's working. It's just gotta keep going. So so, a movie like this can confuse you guys. See, it doesn't work. That's the worst thing about it.

Grace Shober 
I don't want to in and...and like, say. and Mags, I'm sure it has like some things to say. But it's like impossible for me to sit here and not say what I want to say right now. Like, I was like, trying to like keep my mouth closed. It's like opening anyway, I literally love never got me sober. Right? They weren't like I love you stop using drugs. And I stopped using drugs, like, give me a break. Love doesn't get you sober. So that's why treatment centers and things like that exist. The only reason and I've like I would love to just like pound into everybody's mind. The absolute only reason that treatment doesn't "work" -- quote, unquote, is because the patient isn't allowing it to work like every time that I went to treatment. I was like, I was like, Oh, I do love it or like hanging out with clicks or like doing stuff I wasn't supposed to do, you know, and I got people like Maggie chasing me around with the Big Book trying to get me to do what I'm supposed to do. And I'm not doing it. So the last time that I go to treatment, and I actually listen to what people like Maggie or say literally Maggie...not like just people like Maggie, but literally Maggie in treatment, like trying to get me to do what I'm doing. And I finally do it at the end. I mean, the parents loved ones, I get it. They want to blame everything else in everybody else. Like this didn't work for my loved one, you know, no, your loved one didn't work it because what I literally do, and it just happened two days ago, I'm running around the campus trying to get people to come to a group. And I get people who are like, "No." You know, so, like, it's not the treatment center itself. It's the person who's in the treatment center that isn't allowing it to work. And people just don't want to accept the fact that their son or daughter is the worst in treatment. I was gonna say something else, but I'm trying to like to censor my mouth. So like, they're just the worst and treatment. It's not Retreat's fault. It's not this other place's fault. It's your loved one.

Steve Martorano 
You know, Grace, you're gonna just have to learn to speak your mind and quit beating around the bush here.

Grace Shober
Yeah.

Steve Martorano 
Listen, that's why you're here. And you can use any language you like I do. This is the world of podcasting here. We're out from under the tyranny of government. Anyway. So you know, this is beautiful I because, again, from the outside, you can look at this and say it's a grotesque caricature and not true about substance abuse. From my perspective, I would...I would immediately think that because Maggie and Grace are very typical of the people I know, who do this for a living, and I go, "Oh no, no, no. They're not like. This whole thing's bullshit." This is horrible. Well, they show up, and they go "No it ain't, Steve. It's a lot of this is on the level. The problem is, you know, the good people are they're trying to drive the bad people out, and money corrupts everything." This is why we love the Mavens. This is why I think, you know, I said, this is the beginning of the series when I watch a courtroom drama, and I love it. I can't escape the notion that I'm not a lawyer. I don't know if this is true or not. Or the...or when I see a doctor show, I go, Oh, this is terrific. I wonder what a doctor thinks of this. So we're done fooling around with these drug and alcohol movies, and we're gonna get in there and go, "No, this is nonsense." Or "This is cool." So it's called the Body Brokers. If you're struggling with trying to get an idea in your head of what treatments are all about, go ahead and watch it. It's not a pretty picture.

Maggie Hunt 
Don't watch it, actually. No, don't.

Grace Shober 
At the same time, it's a movie, you know, like the movies, not terrible, but I don't think that anytime that I go to like France, or wherever it is, like, if I go there, then I'm going to be in a hostel that like cuts me to pieces. It just, you know what I mean? Like it is a movie. So it's not like things like that don't happen. Certainly, things like that happen. But like most of the time, no.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, you know, when this thing leaped out at you, it's like, "Hey, we're a movie" when they killed the doctor. Right? It was like, that's completely extraneous. That's, that's absolutely ridiculous. But let's kill the doctor. Okay, because he's a scumbag to, let's kill him. And I went, Okay. And then, of course, the end. And I wonder what you want to leave with...I do want to leave with this shouldn't surprise anybody that sat through this thing, that the character of Utah was going to die. I mean, that's what it was pretty set up. He was gonna die. And he does. But the movie ends with the question. This is going to happen all over the country all the time. And you're not going to do anything about it. How does the story end? And they leave you with a pretty straightforward pronouncement, that treatment. I know that Grace is gonna go crazy. Treatment Facilities are not the answer. Only 12 Step works. And that's how the movie ends. And so I went, wow. I mean, that was pretty definitive. I don't have. How about you guys, is that the only thing we're talking about here, a 12 step program?

Grace Shober 
No, it goes hand in hand. You have like, you have to have physical separation, like back in like 1935...1938 like things like that. They didn't really have treatment centers, they threw your ass in a mental hospital, and they're like, talk to you later, you know what I mean? But then, like, that was still their treatment. It was their physical separation from the drug. And then they went on to do Alcoholics Anonymous, and it was, or NA wasn't there like 1938 like I was talking about, but they go and do a recovery program, and then they're successful, right? It just wasn't a nice treatment center at the time. It was a padded room. So now it's a nicer treatment center to give you that, you know, separation from the drugs and alcohol and then coupled with the program AA or NA...I am old school when it comes to AA and NA like I think those are the two that you should do. You know there are a whole bunch of programs out there CA...this A...every kind of a but, like AA and NA are the ones that coupled with treatment are going to work.

Steve Martorano 
Mag, let's end this. I think we're on a five-star system here. Now I want to...I want you guys to grade the movie. Body Brokers. I think Maggie's gonna say don't go see. "I'm not going to give it any star. Stay away from it." So we want you guys to give it a star rating. I know it's a stupid way of doing this. But why not? We're gonna do it. How many stars do you get out of five, Mag?

Maggie Hunt 
Out of five? Probably two?

Steve Martorano 
Okay, two stars from...from Maggie Hunt. And Grace, how do you feel about Body Brokers?

Grace Shober 
Yeah, I would say two.

Steve Martorano 
Okay, all right. So again, you know, I don't get the score here. But I agree with those scores because I would tell people that if you want to see well-made stories about this situation, there are far better examples than this movie. Far better, way better examples of this whole situation. And not sugar-coated examples. Real examples. Dope Sick was a brilliant job of showing you how things can get out of control. But it was honest and real and this is, you know, this is pretty cheesy. But anyway, it's always fun talking to you guys. You are the best. Again, I'm dedicated to making both of us superstars movie critics. So thank you all for your...for your ladies for your time and for you guys hanging out on the Corner. You know, I tell you this every week you know, you know you're supposed to like us to do all that stuff. It's great. But we also want you to subscribe to the podcast so you can, you know, hear this. Maggie Hunt. Grace Shober. Thanks so much, guys. It is a pleasure. Most fun of the week.

Grace Shober 
Adiós.

Maggie Hunt 
Thanks, guys.

Retreat Behavioral Health 
Retreat Behavioral Health has proudly been serving the community for over ten years. Here at Retreat, we believe in the power of connection and quality care. We offer a comprehensive holistic and compassionate treatment from industry-leading experts. Call 855-802-6600 or visit us at www.retreatbehavioralhealth.com to begin your journey today. 

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The Road to Recovery. Jim Duffy’s Journey to 39 Years of Sobriety
By Behavioral Corner 09 Feb, 2024
On the next Corner, host Steve Martorano welcomes Jim Duffy, a beacon of hope and living proof of the possibility of long-term recovery from substance abuse. As the Business Development Manager at Retreat Behavioral Health, Jim shares his remarkable story of overcoming addiction and achieving an impressive 39 years of sobriety. The conversation highlights the critical importance of reminding those struggling with substance abuse that recovery is not only possible but also achievable.
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