Master Spiritual Advisors

Robert Grover and Gary Logan bring forth their passion for the human spirit to guide people through a deeply sacred journey, so they reconnect into the forgotten miracles of life. As spiritual advisors, they combine their innate gifts to help people embody the understanding that the resonance of our whole being determines the course of our lives.

Robert and Gary believe that deep fulfillment can only occur from the inside out and have committed their lives to walking this truth. Their key mission is to continually awaken people to the ever-present universal intelligence that we allow higher dimensional expression to come through into form. 

Human Potential Experts

Robert and Gary create space for those who truly want to elevate their conscious awareness for a connected sustainable future. Through the sacred journey experience, people come to realize the delicate and interconnected nature of reality. Each person who comes through the intensive experience is given permission to rest deeply into their own center point of presence. By embarking on the journey people tap into their inherent desire to make a contribution in the world and leave a lasting impact for the best possible timeline for humanity and the planet.

Awakening Humanity for the Future, Today!

Steve Martorano 

The Behavioral Corner is produced in partnership with Retreat Behavioral Health -- where healing happens.

The Behavioral Corner 
Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano, and this is the Behavioral Corner. You're invited to hang with us as we discuss how we live today, the choices we make, what we do, and how they affect our health and well-being. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner. Please hang around for a while.

Steve Martorano 
Hi, everybody, welcome to the Behavioral Corner. It's me, Steve Martorano your host and guide. You know how it works here on the Behavioral Corner. The conceit is that I stand here at the intersection of what's happening, and who knows, and wait for interesting people to pass by. And we were always lucky, son of a gun, we managed to bring you some entertaining and informative people. And we've done so again today. Before I introduce our guests, I want to bring those of you who are not familiar with what we do here, it's a podcast about everything. Because everything affects our behavioral health. We've had a special focus over the years on substance abuse and treatment. But we also include lots of work on mental health issues. I can't remember how many years back it was we began talking about psychedelics here on the Corner. But for those of you who come from that, you know, retired hippie generation that I come from, we are at a different place now with regard to the topic of psychedelics. It has now returned after decades of demonization, to be allowed back in polite company. So much so that a lot of money is flowing towards research for them. One of the places you may have heard of is Johns Hopkins University Hospital, they're spending lots of money, and they have been granted the opportunity to do research on psychedelics in a medicinal or therapeutic sense. So it's a real deal. A couple of things are going to happen in the next very shortly. With regard to MDMA, and a couple of other psychedelics that are going to enter, as I said, the therapeutic realm. It has also opened the door for lots of very interesting people who have, you know, some interesting ideas about how to handle all of this. And that's where our guests come in. These fellows are joining us from Canada, Rob Grover and Gary Logan. They're the founders of something called The Journeyman Collective. They deal with mushrooms. And they're going to tell us about that straight ahead. Hi, guys. Thanks for joining us on the corner.

Gary Logan 
Hello, there. Thank you for having us.

Steve Martorano 
A brief description of the collective...the journeymen... is a luxury guided mushroom retreat that you guys put together, is that right?

Gary Logan 
Correct.

Steve Martorano 
Allow me to ask an obvious and dumb question ready to top. You're in Canada. This is legal in Canada?

Robert Grover 
It's in a bit of a gray area.

Steve Martorano 
Ah, okay. We like gray areas. In other words, where they have a kind of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy in Canada about stuff like this?

Robert Grover 
Yeah, we spoke with a reporter from the Vancouver Sun a number of months ago. And she actually had called the local RCMP Police Department. And they basically said, it's not not of our concern. There are bigger fish to fry.

Steve Martorano 
Okay, well, good for them. I couldn't agree with that more. All right. So challenge me, before we get into the weeds here about what you do on these retreats and what people can expect. Are you about a recreational event or a therapeutic event when you put together these retreats?

Robert Grover 
I would say it is more about the personal development side. So it's leaning towards the therapeutic, but we don't focus on the clinical side of mental health, but there are aspects that people come to us for the betterment of their being.

Steve Martorano 
Can I ask you about your background in clinical or therapeutic work?

Robert Grover 
No, not clinical or therapeutic. But there's a vast array of personal development, metaphysical training, and mind-body conscious awareness training. There's a combined 20 years of experience from my realm and 40 from Gary. So there's...there's a lot that we bring to the table.

Steve Martorano 
So you both...you've both taken a lot of mushrooms at the very least?

Robert Grover 
We've trained and now it's a guide.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. All right. This is great, because because as I said, I'm a retired hippie. So I remember some of the rules from back in the day when it was in a gray area as well back in the day's fascinating story about how psychedelics wind up you know, on schedule one list is dangerous as heroin. You know, you guys know the story, but for those who don't. God bless Dr. Leary and Ken Kesey. They did at least as much as the Nixon administration to make drugs illegal. There's no two ways about it. They popularized it, everybody started doing it, it gave the government opened the door to make these drugs seem scary as hell and shut the other door, which could have led to some very beneficial results had they been allowed to study psychedelics in a professional way. Anyway, let me get to you guys. So why mushrooms? Why did you choose mushrooms? Tell us about the psychotropic active drug psilocybin. Why did you choose it, and what is psilocybin all about?

Robert Grover 
So I would say that it shows us. And we were both in a position in our life, where I had started my own coaching business and executive coaching, professional coaching. And I felt like there was still something that wasn't quite being expressed in my practice. And so Gary's mom who lived with us for three and a half years, decided to pass away. And as we call it, transitioning, and when she passed away, we were both left with grief and depression and with all the different modalities, all the different training that we had, we still couldn't quite shake it. And there was this individual, we call it this little fairy human that came into our lives. And she said I think you might want to consider working with the medicine man that I had just worked with. And they sort of didn't really give it much thought. And then it came back again, and went on a journey, and I was able to release the grief, release the depression. And after that journey, I made a commitment to serve my clients in a new way and different way and then started training with the medicine man.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, Gary, can you tell us about psilocybin? How does it work?

Gary Logan 
Sure. I wasn't interested in it at all. That's why Robert went first. And although I don't need mushrooms I can get through this grief and depression. But when he came back the switch and Robert from using psilocybin and working with a medicine man, I was like, in shock, like holy shit, this man's joy is back. I thought, "Well, if he could shift the depression, and grief that he was going through, perhaps I need to do this too." So I spoke to the medicine man and gifted for my birthdays, which would have been made six, I embarked on my first shoomonic psilocybin journey. Not knowing what to expect, I knew not a lot about the medicine itself, and I just trusted, I came up the other side, the best gift I gave myself was free of grief, depression came back in alignment, I was much happier, had a purpose in my life and direction, I was also shown in the vision that this was the path that we were supposed to be on. And both Robert and I spoke about it. And then we spoke with the medicine man and say, you know, these visions came through on our journey, you know, how do we incorporate this in our life in our programs of personal development and mind-body conscious awareness training that we both had, and he assisted us in the use of psilocybin how to work with it, and use it as a teacher and a learning tool.

Robert Grover 
So that specifically that the science of psilocybin...psilocybin, it's basically they're, they're, you're increasing the amount of serotonin and connections taking place in your mind, in your consciousness. And as a result, you start to connect to different things that have happened in your life that may be holding you back. And basically, you get to see yourself in different pieces of your life that you haven't dealt with. So it allows you to heighten your ability to actually see on the inside.

Steve Martorano 
When you say that because of personal experiences in your lives, you found yourself looking for some way out of the cloud of I guess, in this case, depression and grief. And you were startled at what mushrooms were able to achieve in that regard...the replication of that. On the second or third trip. Is that something that happens? Or can you only be a virgin once you know what I mean? I mean, that experience, the psychedelic experience, in my experience, was difficult to replicate after the first time was the moment when I always use this phrase. When all I could say well, all I could describe it was Oh, I see. And then the other things were trips. They were enjoyable. I got lucky, they were enjoyable, but they were not the same as the first. Now you guys are careful to distinguish between tripping and journeying. Tell me why?

Robert Grover 
Yeah. So what we witnessed is that the the first part of the actual entire journey is there's a psychedelic part where you're seeing different fractals, different sacred geometries, and whatnot. And then you have to get through that part in order to get into the journey. And that's the spiritual journey. And you'll be shown different things. And I believe that it is replicable, I think the medicine also meets you where you're at ____ with your intention. And when there's a, at least, this is our experience, when there's a guide there that when there's a high level of respect for the medicine, it knows. It allows you to see different things in your journey and allows you to have a deeper and more visceral embodiment of the teachings. So one of the things that we because...we have repeat clients who it's not, I'd say repeat clients are like maybe once every three or four years, because the journeys that we bring people through, they're purpose driven. So it's not just coming to experience it. And we're working with you all, even I'll say, at a soul level at a spirit level. And there are metaphysical teachings that weave into the whole process that I think allows you to have a different spiritual journey, or vision quest if you will, that takes place every single time. And there are teachings that come from them, based on where you're at, and based on where you're going in the intent of what you want to bring forward for humanity and how you want to serve in the world.

Steve Martorano 
I can see the distinction being drawn -- a trip is sort of a one-time thing. I'm going on a trip. A Journey implies, you know, that, so I'm going, correct?

Robert Grover 
There's no destination.

Steve Martorano 
Right? So that's, it's great, it looks like a semantic game you're playing here. But it's not it it's a deeply meaningful distinction between a journey and a trip. So you shouldn't look for that "blown mind" experience every time. You should have other goals in mind. And you guys get you guys can bring methods and guidance is so that people can enjoy the journey. So let me ask you, when your clients come to you, how cognizant do you have to be about what underlying mental shape they're in? Meaning, you've got to worry about that, don't you? So what kind of an interview process goes on?

Gary Logan 
we have an online application form first, that the potential client would fill out, and we would receive it and review it, they would book a discovery call, which is usually 45 minutes. Sometimes those discovery calls could be two or three calls

Robert Grover 
...or five...

Gary Logan 
...or five or more, depending on the person and where they're at, we get a good sense of the connection online sort of immediately whether we know they're going to be like a good fit for us, and we're gonna be a good fit for them, because they are coming into our center, and it is part of our home. And so it's sort of, you know, you're going to spend time with these people. So you want them to be as open and honest as possible, and reveal as much as they can are comfortable with us. So they're able to step into the journey process, prepared, ready, and willing to trust surrender, and let go. So with that, we have a four-week preparation period, where we will be on Zoom once a week with them and have discussions on what's coming up in their life. There's also work that we provide them to prepare them for the journey process. That would be video content and material to read. And then they would have the next part of the process would be an in-person journey. So that would be four days with us, they would arrive there would be a journey or a ceremony, we would call it that evening. And then the next day, it would be a full day of integration. And then the third day would be another journey. And that would be in the afternoon. And the fourth day would be a full day of integration. When they come to the center. They're with us almost 24/7 except when they go to bed. We're with you all the way through the dream process. There is time over yourself. But there is time with Rob and Gary and the medicine. So the trifecta is happening at the same time. And once they depart, which is sad, they say they depart and they really want to go home. We're with him for another three months of integration work. And what does that look like? That's four weeks of Zoom calls once a week again, and then we gradually step back and go every two weeks for another two months. But we always say as part of our collective, that's why we're called The Journeyman Collective. The collective grows and expands and they're with us almost for life. We have clients that we speak It's like six years ago that we're still in contact with their reach out to us.

Steve Martorano 
Rob, do you? Are you consulted? Or do you refer to anybody in the healthcare field when you run into an applicant that you have? Do you need more information, more clinical information before you do that?

Robert Grover 
Yeah, yeah. If someone is in a deep clinical state of depression, then we do have someone that we would refer to and as Gary mentioned, there's a deep intuitive sense that we know when someone is a fit and when they're not. And if they're not, then we, will graciously guide them to someone else. And then that person has to go through the process as well to see like, okay, are this person a fit? So, yeah, if someone's in a deep state of clinical mental crisis, then typically, that isn't our forte.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. Somebody with schizophrenia is not coming. knocking on your door.

Robert Grover 
No, no.

Steve Martorano 
Our guests are Rob Grover and Gary Logan, they're the founders of the Journeyman Collective. These are retreats around the ingestion of mushrooms, and for a number of years got to use the word therapeutic benefits. Just not in the kind of clinical sense we're talking about. So let's talk about the process. So how long is one retreat? Did you...I lost track there. Is it a week, or two weeks? How long is that first?

Robert Grover 
Yes. So we actually don't even call them retreats, but for the sake of our website, and to create that image in people's minds, because they need to have an image in their mind when you're talking to someone. And we do call it a retreat, but it's more of an intensive. And it's it's actually the entire support program is four months, but the intensive in-person is four full days. And...

Steve Martorano 
That's a period I wanted to ask you about those four days, how many mushrooms are used in a four-day period?

Robert Grover 
Yeah, so there are two ceremonies. And again, the dosage varies depending on the individual again, we've taken that time to get to know them and get to know their history. Have they ever actually experimented with psychedelics in any way, shape or form? Have they ever ingested alcohol? Or sometimes people haven't experienced mushrooms? They haven't even experienced alcohol? So...

Steve Martorano 
So the dosage...the dosages would be different?

Robert Grover 
Yes, definitely. And then it's also like, what is their mental state? What is their entire health state? Where are they at? So that's, like, personalized, and it can vary over the duration of one ceremony, which can be five to eight to sometimes 12 hours, I'd say on average, we're looking at about five to six hours of being in with the medicine, and we're working with you the entire time. Some people would say, if they're looking from the outside to the inside, we're just sitting there doing nothing, when in actuality, we're removing energy we're working with the mind to mind soul, the soul on the on the inner planes. So we jokingly say that we're sort of like the little pinball flappers that bump people along on the inner planes to help them move through their journey.

Steve Martorano 
You too are the sole guides on these journeys. You don't have any assistance? Yeah. Where do your mushrooms come from?

Robert Grover 
We have different gardeners that we soulfully trust.

Steve Martorano 
Oh, sure. You don't buy anything online?

Robert Grover 
No.

Steve Martorano 
Okay. And you're confident that you can measure dosages? Yes, carefully and that's from experience or is there some science associated with them?

Robert Grover 
There is science in the individuals that we work with who test their mushrooms for consistency, I don't know the exact amount but then based on that we will change dosage as well and they're also tested for vitality, energetically and they're blessed and they're only grown for this...for ceremonial use.

Steve Martorano 
Gary, during the journeys that you guys are guiding are you also ingesting mushrooms?

Gary Logan 
We do...we take a microdose...micro-micro dose and most times the add very little. Why you do that to get on for me personally is a frequency and vibration of it. So I'm no sort where they are within the journey process. I intuitively know but somehow I feel that having a little bit of the medicine with me, helps me to guide them even deeper through the journey process. says and know where they are.

Steve Martorano 
How are the mushrooms ingested?

Gary Logan 
They are dried mushrooms, we don't ground them up. But we want the client to see actually what they're digesting. So they actually look at it, taste it and feel it and see what they're putting into their system, along with gourmet dark chocolate, and there'll be like ceremonial tea that they will drink and fresh juice.

Steve Martorano 
But the...but basically, they eat that they eat the mushroom, it's not, it's not made into a tea.

Gary Logan 
No.

Steve Martorano 
And the chocolates are cute, which sweetened the little bitterness associated with...

Gary Logan 
It helps some medicine go down.

Robert Grover 
And then with the fact that we're using like, beautiful gourmet chocolate, there is the aspect of cacao in the chocolate as well. So there is a, there's a synergy that takes place with those two medicines. So we really work with people in the context of actually blessing the medicine that they're with as well. So their blessing and infusing their intentions for their journey into the medicine, and so that they can work with the medicine and when they're in the journey,

Steve Martorano 
Are the journeys conducted in groups?

Robert Grover 
No more than four people.

Steve Martorano 
Okay, that was my next question. Because that gives you a manageable group and you can and you can handle that. Look, you know, as well as I, that not every journey is on a smooth road, and journeys are on bumpy roads. What happens...or have you seen people have bad journeys? What do you do in the event someone's getting anxious or scared...

Robert Grover 
Yeah, so when that happens, again, because we've prepared people, and we've worked with people leading up to it, we talked about that. We tell them how to rest into the medicine and how to actually go into stillness. So again, if someone's looking from the outside to the inside, and we've had people go into very challenging spaces within itself, and because of the preparation work, and the work in person, because Gary Gary's and Alexander Technique teacher, which comes into the whole entire experience of an embodied journey. So we teach people how to go into stillness, and most of our clients, I'd say, are able to go into stillness in a meditative state for like, five hours, if not more. So we teach them how to work with the energy of anxiety when it comes up. Teach people how to move through those deeply challenging journeys. And I'm even thinking of someone that we just worked with. And she was like, that was so excruciatingly painful for about two hours, or she actually didn't know how long it was. Because time disappears, as you know. And she was, and she was completely still and surrendered into the whole entire experience, even in the excruciating pain that she...she moved through. So that's a big part of how we work with people.

Steve Martorano 
Is there a typical client, the typical sort of person that you hear from?

Robert Grover 
Yeah, I'd say most people are entrepreneurs, or executives, and or professionals in their own realm. And they have a good part of their life together. And they just want to they know, they motion their hand in front of their heart in front of their chest. And they say, there's something that I haven't connected with yet in this lifetime and I don't know what it is, and I don't know how to access it. And there's something missing in my life. And they know that they're here to make a greater impact within their companies, within their businesses, and within their communities. And I think that the overarching piece is that people are looking for a deeper level of connection. And it's a deeper level of connection to self that is then reflected back into the people that they work with and in their communities. And because they've connected more deeply with themselves, they can use that awareness in their conversations, to pull on strings that they may not have pulled on before to really foster that deeper level of connection within the people within their companies in their communities.

Gary Logan 
And their families.

Robert Grover 
Yeah, and their families.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, this has been the promise of psychedelics for many, many years. Once you get past the recreational what a long, strange trip it's been and try to get to the benefits of it outside of the experience. How does...how does your life get better because you've taken this journey? So they're high achievers suspect because of their high achievement that they've got some money and almost certain you guys don't take insurance? So how much does this cost?

Robert Grover 
So our group journeys start at 11k USD.

Steve Martorano 
And that's the whole continuing process, the follow-up, and all of that. 

Robert Grover 
Yes.

Gary Logan 
Yes.

Steve Martorano 
Okay. It's interesting because we had a woman on a couple of months back, who, if you were to take yoga...take mushrooms or replace it with yoga, that's what she does she does these, these journeys to exotic places where people like to go because they travel and brings the discipline of yoga to them at that level. Sounds sort of like that? Well, you must, you must be aware of what the medical establishment thinks about guys like you, they will be probably forthright, overwhelming you saying this is dangerous. These guys are not trained. You got to know what you...how do you what do you come back to them with,

Robert Grover 
We are trained, we are trained in more of the traditional sense of medicine. And as I mentioned, Gary has 40-plus years of mind-body conscious awareness training, we may not be trained in the clinical setting of what the institutions may want you to be. And we are very transparent with all of our clients that we are not psychologists. We are not psychiatrists, we are not doctors. But we have a broad, broad, and deep understanding of how the mind works, and how the energy of the soul works. So this is both mind, body, and soul. It's a very deeply embodied process. And...

Steve Martorano 
It's the essence of holistic.

Robert Grover 
Correct.

Steve Martorano 
It is fascinating. Let me just one more look inside the the journey. I can remember that there were two schools of thought, many years ago about what to do when you're going to take LSD. And the one school of thought was referred to as "set and setting." Are you familiar with the expression set and setting?

Robert Grover 
Yes.

Gary Logan 
Yes

Steve Martorano 
Okay? All right. So that was the Leary method and the Richard Alpert. And that you had to be in an environment that you felt safe in is conducive to all of that. introspection. And I don't know if they had a term for the other method, but it was characterized by the Ken Kesey Merry Prankster crew, which was, take it and then go out, see what happens. Just run amok. You guys are clearly in the first camp?

Robert Grover 
Yes, yeah. And I think a big part of that is that the outside world will always be there. And we do hear people having journeys in the forest that were mind-bending and whatnot. However, our belief is that when you allow yourself to explore the inner realms, that's where you're truly going to learn about yourself. And this is about learning about yourself so that you can apply the learnings understandings and wisdom to your life, into your love into your relationships, and into your businesses so that you can have a greater holistic impact.

Steve Martorano 
A couple of seconds before the end here now. I know that you are knocking...you knocked down myths about mushrooms all the time. What are the three or four or five things? People get wrong about mushrooms.

Gary Logan 
They you'll lose your mind. But, in fact, you find your mind in your time, self-permission to rest into self, and let go of the old habitual patterns that no longer serve you.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, that's probably the largest misconception. Are people worried about becoming ill...physically ill?

Gary Logan 
It does come in conversation but with psilocybin. There isn't a purging that occurs not like with Ayahuasca.

Robert Grover 
When you work with someone who's guiding you and helping you move the energy the entire time and teaches you how to...how to basically breathe through those really challenging moments and learn from...learn from the actual experience.

Steve Martorano 
Well, guys, I appreciate this. Rob Grover, and Gary Logan of The Journeyman Collective. If people are looking for something like this, how do they make sure...what steps should they take to ensure that they're going someplace after all, I don't know you two. You're in Vancouver in the mountains outside the city? Am I going to be safe? What steps do I need to take to make sure I'm not going to the wrong place?

Robert Grover 
Do your due diligence. Know who you're working with. Know what the entire experience is, is their actual integration? Have the people that you're with ever harmed anyone before? There are some really crazy stories about people who I would say are in the world of malpractice. So are you going to be safe with us? Absolutely. You're in our center and we make the request that everyone stay in one space during the actual ceremonies. And so safety is paramount. Integrity intention and purpose are all paramount with us. And it is the greatest honor for us to guide someone through that journey, which can...which we teach people how to actually use the information and the understanding that they have for the rest of their lives.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, the margin of error for somebody like you two is non-existent. You can't get it wrong. Or you're done. I get it. The Journeyman Collective. You can find information online, I'm sure.

Gary Logan 
Yes.

Steve Martorano 
What's your website?

Gary Logan 
thejourneymencollective -- one word-- dot com. We're on Instagram and Facebook also.

Steve Martorano 
And they as I said are in British Columbia and branded. I hope we can have you back sometime down the road. It's a great topic. And you guys certainly know a lot about it. Appreciate your time.

Gary Logan 
Thank you.

Robert Grover 
Thank you so much.

Steve Martorano 
Thank you guys as well. Don't forget you know the drill like us, subscribe to us criticize us. But don't ignore us, please The Behavioral Corner. We'll see you next time. Take care. Bye bye.

Synergy Health Programs 
Millions of Americans are negatively affected daily by their mental health. Retreat has served the community for over ten years, offering comprehensive mental health programming through our mental health division, Synergy Health Programs. To learn more about Synergy, please reach out today at 855-802-6600.

The Behavioral Corner 
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