Dr.Alyson Nerenberg, a clinical psychologist is a compassionate and dynamic therapist with over 30 years in practice. She works with relationship issues, anxiety, depression, divorce, addictions and eating disorders. Dr. Nerenberg integrates philosophies from the medical, psychological and self-help communities in order to treat the whole person. She is a positive person who focuses on her clients strengths in order to help them heal.

Perfect couples do not exist; nor do perfect families. Yet, in our photoshopped, Instagrammable world where we only present flawless versions of ourselves, we can easily be tricked into believing that they do. Clinical psychologist, Dr. Alyson Nerenberg has spent 30 years listening to couples, families, executives, celebrities, and professional athletes; and is here to share the truth. Whether we are willing to admit it or not, every one of us experiences challenges in our relationships. 

Steve Martorano 
The Behavioral Corner is produced in partnership with Retreat Behavioral Health -- where healing happens.

The Behavioral Corner 
Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano, and this is the Behavioral Corner. You're invited to hang with us as we discuss how we live today, the choices we make, what we do, and how they affect our health and well-being. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner. Please hang around for a while.

Steve Martorano 
Hi, everybody, welcome again. It's me, Steve Martorano. And this is the Behavioral Corner. If you have somehow gotten lost in the podcast world, and find yourself at the intersection of behavior and corner, this is us. This is where we hang. And we always wanted to find people we hope they're interested. So that you might find out more about, you know, what we do and what the intent of the podcast is. We call it a podcast about everything. Because everything affects our behavioral health. So today, we're gonna take a look at a couple of topics, but centrally focused on anxiety. And what we mean when we talk about anxiety, what distinguishes them as disorders, and how we can treat them. So as always is the case on the Behavioral Corner. We found somebody we thought would know a little bit about it. In fact, somebody who knows a lot about treating disorders like this, our guest is Alyson Nerenberg. Dr. Nerenberg is a licensed psychologist. And in spite of the fact she doesn't look like he could possibly have 30 years of experience in this field. She does. She is in private practice. And we welcome her to the Corner. Doctor. Thanks for joining us.

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Great, Steve. I'm glad to be here today.

Steve Martorano 
Now, in the interest of full disclosure, Dr. Nerenberg. And I could do this over coffee because she's a neighbor of mine. As it turns out, we just realized that the other day, we could be shouting out the window at each other. So thanks again, for your time. Tell us a little about your practice.

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Yes, I have been in Chestnut Hill, the same office in Philadelphia for about 22 years. And I love what I do. I work with all different types of people. And I have five therapists who work with me, in my practice, as my associates, but we see couples, we see individuals, we're working with all different types of people who've experienced depression, anxiety, relationship issues. And a lot of times anxiety and depression, lead to problems in your relationships.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, that's why we thought it would be informative to talk to somebody like you who focuses on interpersonal relationships, and the effect various different disorders can have on them, I failed to mention that. Alyson...may call you Alyson? Alyson is also the author of a book called No Perfect Love. That's the title of her book. And we'll talk more about that a little bit down the road. So let's talk about anxiety. In general, first of all, how do we describe anxiety which is common, and we all feel it in various degrees, anxiety is a standalone feature, and then when it becomes a disorder, can you explain that to us?

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Sure. If I wanted to sum up anxiety, I think I just call it fear. Sometimes that fear is unrealistic for the situation. You know, if you think about it, hundreds of years ago, if somebody was out by a cave, actually, and they saw a bear, you know, he would be scared, you're you feel this in your body and you'd know to run. So sometimes the anxiety and the fear reaction is a really great thing. Because it tells you to get out of dodge, you got to leave. So sometimes it's actually healthy for you can feel it when you're walking in a neighborhood where you just feel like somebody's looking at you and you know that feeling in your gut that you need to get out of the way. That fear is really good because it's telling you that this isn't the right situation for you to be in and to protect yourself. It becomes a problem and becomes a disorder if it's intruding upon your life. So if you can't sleep because you're having all sorts of fears and anxieties and you're having you're finding yourself sweating and worrying about every social interaction you've had that day, or if it's impacting your ability to work at your job, or you know, perform in school, if you're constantly worried, that's when it becomes a disorder if it's impacting your daily functioning.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, I want to get into it. I know there are varying types of anxiety disorders, and maybe we can talk about a couple of those. But that's an interesting point you make so anxiety begins as a survival mechanism. That's hardwired into the species. Adam those as well feel anxiety, I'm sure, because they're also on the alert for any threat. So here we are many 1000s of years removed from the fear of being eaten by a tiger anxiety is still with us, it must then still have some actual benefit in terms of a survival mechanism. I know you've talked about the effects of it. But what are some of the things that tip us over into that problem area of anxiety?

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Well, I think our whole world has gone kind of nuts. We're dealing with so much stress. You know, in our culture, we were dealing with the fighting that's going on in Israel, we're dealing with mass shootings, that are occurring in Maine and other places where it is so hard for people to just get through a day, a lot of times, because you see what's around you and there, and fear is contagious, all you have to do is put on the news, and you hear all the negative things that are happening in the world. And that can create anxiety. Plus, there are all these expectations, we have to do everything well and to get through school and to sign up for things on time. There's, there's anxiety that comes in everyday living, of being able to accomplish all the many tasks that we're all expected to do. You're expected to respond to a text message within a few minutes, or somebody's going to think you're rude. There's there's always these expectations, which are...

Steve Martorano 
You've been speaking with my wife. "What do you mean, you haven't answered their email? You've got to answer the email." Yeah, yeah. It is interesting that something so ubiquitous, something so common to all of us, yeah. Should be a disorder for some people, I think maybe will correct me if I'm wrong, anxiety issues are often on diagnosed and unreported. Is that true?

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Yes. It's funny, actually, I think the statistic was that this is a very treatable anxiety disorder. But more than 60% of people who have anxiety, don't seek treatment. A lot of times, it's because of the stigma of going to a therapist and how that would feel. It's also people who don't want to admit they have a problem.

Steve Martorano 
To what extent is it also thought of as Why shouldn't I be anxious? As you just said, correctly, the world is on fire, and we are confronted with unbelievable violence in this country. on a routine basis. We'll delve into that more. So is that part of the problem as well that some people just go well, of course, I'm anxious, you're supposed to be anxious.

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
In some ways, it's normalized. And sometimes it's what we're hearing and, you know, hey, news, keeps going people have jobs to keep giving you information and to get a reaction, so that you're constantly being triggered by anxiety in the world. So that does contribute to a lot of it.

Steve Martorano 
In addition to the things we've already mentioned, the pandemic was an accelerant. I'm guessing the to anxiety.

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Yes. I mean, the pandemic was tough for so many people, what it was good for, was it in a way lessened some of the stigma of getting mental health help. You know, for us therapists, it was rough. I mean, I never worked that hard in my life, I was getting up and going into my office, and I felt like I was the only person in Chestnut Hill at the time working because I would just sit in my quiet office because I couldn't be home with my three kids. My daughters had come home from college, and we had a dog there. And I just had to keep doing session after session after session. So it was a time when the whole world felt anxious. And we therapists really had it too, because we were experiencing the same stress and everybody else was. But it was happening in real-time. And we had to have some solutions.

Steve Martorano 
And yet again, it was another example of well, why wouldn't you be nervous, there was an airborne, highly contagious virus, that at least at the beginning, looked like it was going to kill everyone it came in contact with turns out that that's not the case. So what were people telling you when you were doing sessions not unlike this, you were trying to communicate with them? What were they telling you about their anxiety?

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
It was interesting because, for me, I was seeing people who I hadn't seen in years, people who had been in therapy and then hadn't needed me anymore. And we said goodbye. And then they called in and said, "Help! You know, remember me, I worked with you five years ago." I'm really sorry my marriage is in trouble. Or my I'm not speaking to my child or my I feel so sad for all the losses. My kids who were in college have now come home and we're fighting addictions were off the chart. People were looking to try and find some sort of control over their world that didn't have much control. So people were drinking more people were if you had eating disorders, were really restricting More were trying to control the food that went into their bodies, because everything else was so out of control.

Steve Martorano 
Could you tell us who is most or more at risk for an anxiety disorder?

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
It's interesting, the research says that it's women. Now, I don't know if it's because women are more self-identified to go into therapy in general. However, it shows that more women are more at risk of having anxiety disorders.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, it kind of negatively plays into the stereotype of the, you know, the shrinking violet, or the hysterical woman. And it just maybe, a case that they're more open about talking about

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
it. True. And it may be that there's more, here's my feminist side coming out, but there's more on women, of having to handle kids as well as jobs and the pressures of running a household. So in some ways, they have to worry about a lot more little details.

Steve Martorano 
And men who suffer not suffer, but men who can confront anxiety every day, as well. Their problem is more along the lines of the well, it's time to man up, you know?

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
True. And I think as I'm talking to you, I'm thinking that sometimes with men, it manifests more as substance abuse, you know, if I'm feeling anxious, instead of sitting in this feelings, I'm going to use drugs or I'm going to drink to not feel these this feeling of anxiety.

Steve Martorano 
Not all anxieties are the same. Are they? What are some of the types of anxiety disorders?

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Well, there's a generalized anxiety disorder. And that's the type, the type that keeps you up at night that you're just anxious about everything, you have this, the sense of doom that occurs. Then there's also social anxiety, which is when somebody is really nervous about being uncomfortable in a social situation, scared of going to a party, they're scared about saying something that's embarrassing or being humiliated. And there are fears there. There are also simple phobias, which are like somebody's afraid of going on an airplane, or driving a car, or driving over bridges, or, you know, there are all sorts of different fears, some are related to experiences that they've had in the past that have been negative.

Steve Martorano 
I came across the reading about anxiety, separation anxiety. Tell me about that.

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Yes, that happens when people leave usually the transitions, you first hear about it when you're sending your kid off to to preschool or kindergarten, and you see the child who's hanging on to his mom's leg because he's afraid of leaving. It also happens sometimes when you have kids going off to college, and they're afraid of the next phase of their life and what they're having and they're having separation from their family.

Steve Martorano 
Alyson Nerenberg is our guest, Dr. Nerenberg is a licensed psychologist, and we're talking to her about her experience with treating anxiety, this GAD thing -- General Anxiety Disorder -- does that describe a kind of free floating, very vague anxiety?

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
It often is. And it's often you don't even know why you're feeling anxious. But you could it could be you're just feeling the body sensations. It could be that you're finding that you can't sleep because you're worrying about everything from the way of the world to the little things that are occurring on a daily basis.

Steve Martorano 
Whoa, tell us about some of the other physical manifestations of anxiety besides sleeplessness.

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Well, one thing that occurs is panic attacks. And that's when your anxiety comes really suddenly, all of a sudden, you get these chest palpitations, and your heart starts racing and your hands are feeling clammy, or your feet are feeling clammy. And a lot of times people don't know that this is a panic attack. And they think they're having a heart attack, or they think they're going to die. So a lot of times they go to the ER and they're told to go home that this is just a panic attack. And it's just all the fears are coming and it's hitting them quickly and suddenly

Steve Martorano 
Let's take this opportunity now to find out whether or not during a panic attack, which I've never had, breathing into a bag actually helps, and if so, why?

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
You know, people say that it does. And it's in a way it's calming you. It's controlling the breathing. And I think breathing is so important that it's when we get anxious, we start breathing quickly. That fast breathing that's out of control actually makes us more anxious. But if we slow down our breath, and take slow, long breaths that really can change how we're feeling and what we're focusing on.

Steve Martorano
Amazing how often breathing plays a part. and managing a whole range of emotional difficulties. It's fascinating. You know, it's just to get back to this one other area where anxiety manifests itself I think so commonly, and that is in this in at night, night...yours and everyone's but I have an image of an army of people sort of shuffling around a darkened home in the middle of the night, just all over the country all over the world. There's something about the nighttime, I mean, I understand it's dark and quiet. Bob Dylan has a great line. I'm always quoting Dylan. Dylan's line was, let me get it right. "Ain't it just like the night to play tricks when you're trying to be so quiet."

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Nothing wrong with quoting Bob Dylan. I like Dylan, yeah.

Steve Martorano 
Is that a result of just the isolation and the quiet in the mind racing and...

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
...having time to think I don't know, mine always would come up my anxiety in the morning, I'd wake up early. And I had a patient once who said no good thoughts ever come into my head before seven in the morning.

Steve Martorano 
I must say that's a string. It would mean for me. The mornings have already been okay. I know. It was crazy yesterday, but it's another day. Let's give it a shot. It doesn't manifest itself. But I we have all experienced that feeling where you awake, perhaps from a little sleeplessness. And the first thought in your head is if it is not to have something pleasant or go, let's go back to sleep. It is almost invariably something troublesome. Yes. And that just triggers it right?

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg  
Yes. ruminations?

Steve Martorano 
Yes.

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Thoughts that keep going over and over again. That's another sign of anxiety.

Steve Martorano  
They self-manufacture themselves continuously? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. Want to talk a little bit about what you would recommend? I know, there are a couple of ways to treat anxiety disorders, and I want to touch upon a couple of them.

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Or something that helped me personally.

Steve Martorano
Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
During the pandemic, I'll tell you, I was super functioning during that time because I had my daughter who was away at college came home we had, all of a sudden, I'd be working all day, because it felt like my practice like quadrupled, because everybody was going through stress. And I'd only have breaks five or 10 minutes before the hour. And I thought, oh, my gosh, how am I going to be present for my next person? And I had always talked about meditating, I recommended it to other people as being helpful. But during the pandemic, I started doing it myself. And I only had five minutes or 10 minutes. But I was listening to an app and it really had guided meditations, I would lay on my sofa in my office, instead of trying to have the perfect posture and do it well. I just would let myself listen to a meditation for five minutes, and I came back feeling better.

Steve Martorano  
It's a great topic. Along with breathing, which we mentioned as being so integral in this process, meditation is often the go-to place for millions of people, some people swear their lives would not have meaning if they could not meditate a certain amount of and I must tell you while I understand it, that benefits many, many people can see how it does. I have never been able to put myself in that place. How did you how did you said you recommended it, but never did it? How did you get to it?

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
I didn't think it could work for me to be honest. Because when I had tried in the past, I had this vision that I had to be sitting in this perfect posture, and be it perfectly attuned to the world and meditate and be on a mat and have the right meditation vibe. And in my family, I have three kids and a dog. And every time I went to meditate, somebody would find me, they would all come and look for me or the dog would hear that I closed the door and bark outside. And it wasn't working for me. And then during the pandemic, I didn't have much time. And I let go of having to do it perfectly. And I had this app that was actually it was a Peloton app that had five-minute meditations, 10-minute meditations and I thought, okay, I can commit to that. I'll give it a try for five minutes. And once I let go of having to do it perfectly. It really helped.

Steve Martorano 
So, you didn't need a dimly lit room with incense burning. You didn't need to be in a lotus position. You got it staring into a candle saying some word over and over again.

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Yes, no mantra. No, it was just I'm giving myself five minutes. I'm giving myself permission to tune out.

Steve Martorano 
Well, let me probe a little here. Because I want to know how this can work for me while you're doing that. And I think I'm perfectly capable of making that decision. You Just made to do it that way, thoughts still bombarded your mind.

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Okay, so what I did, and again, I am no guru on this, but what I did was I gave myself permission, whatever came up as okay. So sometimes in those five minutes, I'd have these profound moments like I'd, I'd have this vision or felt spiritual, it felt connected. Other times one couple of times I fell asleep. And that was okay too. After the five-minute meditation was over, I felt more clear for the next session, I felt more clear for the next thing I had to do in front of me. And it helps sometimes it helps more than others. But it was just giving myself permission, however, I do it is okay, just get comfortable. And you're going to be better off than before you started.

Steve Martorano 
And when the thought occurs, that oh, did I remember to pick up the dry cleaning? Did I feed the dog you just live with us live with that moment? It's okay...

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Just live with it. Try and recenter yourself back. It's kind of for me like exercise, that sometimes I have this great moment of exercising. And other times I you know, I could do a class I could do, I could go for a run and I'll feel wonderful. And other times. It's okay. But I always feel better than when I started.

Steve Martorano 
Well, meditation certainly sounds therapeutic for sure. What are some other techniques? I know that there is what's referred to as talk therapy. And there's also a medical or medicinal treatment for this. Yes. Tell us about the two methods to treat.

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Yeah, so all different types of therapists who do all different types of talk therapy, some is cognitive-behavioral, trying to change your thoughts, irrational thoughts, some is acceptance therapy, where you're just accepting where you are. And working on being as in the present moment as possible. There are some that look at your childhood, what's caused your anxiety, it's more psychodynamic in nature. But all of it is, it's a way of not being alone, I have a friend who says I don't want to be alone in my squirrel cage. It's about sharing it with other people. A good therapist will recommend that you have other people besides just the therapist in your support network. So a good therapist will recommend that you share some of your anxieties with friends. I'm a big believer in journaling and writing things down. So you're getting them out of your head and onto paper. So if I ever couldn't sleep, it would, I would grab my journal and just write what was going on. And just the act of writing it down made me tired and made me kind of let it go. I externalized it, instead of it being alone in my own head, I put it on paper.

Steve Martorano 
I think I understand cognitive behavioral therapy, I think I do. It's always seemed to me, simply put, that if you change the way you think you will change the way you behave, is that pretty much it?

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
It is I...I like the 12 Step slogan, they say bring the...bring the body, the mind will follow. And I like that because in the sense, it's saying, Alright, instead of waiting till you have this moment where you're all of a sudden thinking differently, just do the next right thing. Go for a walk, go out to exercise, call a friend, and don't allow all of the ruminating thoughts to take over.

Steve Martorano 
Your PhD is in psychology and not psychiatry. So I'm guessing that you don't prescribe drugs.

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
I do not recommend other people if you people have a primary care doctor or a psychiatrist to help them with...

Steve Martorano 
What so I don't know, to what extent you're interested in talking about what sort of drugs would they prescribe? Under what circumstances?

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Yeah, there are lots of different types of drugs for this. I mean, I'm not an expert in that that's not where my training was. But I feel like sometimes I give the analogy about riding a bike because I do like to ride a bike and I think about it, when you take the right medication, instead of riding on a hill, you're riding on a flat road, it makes it much easier. So not as much of a struggle.

Steve Martorano 
Now. I mean, there are psychiatric or there are behavioral health disorders, where almost the first place you go is drugs means very serious cases of I guess schizophrenia and others. That would be the first place I'm getting that with anxiety issues. It's not the first place you go to.

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Usually, I work with somebody through talk therapy, and if it's not working, if after eight or 10 sessions, they're still struggling I look at it. Are you not sleeping or you're not eating? Is this impacting your daily functioning still, then we need it, you know, to get an outside consultation with a psychiatrist. So I don't use drugs as the the first way of treating. But if I feel like after a certain amount of time we don't see that just the talk therapy and the self-care techniques making a change, then sometimes I recommend going to a psychiatrist.

Steve Martorano 
And I would, I would, I mean, I don't know what I'm gonna experience here. But I suspect that many psychiatrists don't begin with well, let's give you some antidepressants or, or something, I think they would begin also with sort of talking it out. Before they got...

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Some do. Some don't. Some are so used to relying on the medical model and finding the right medication. So you know, and often, what you want to create as a team. So a therapist who will talk to your primary care doctor, or who will talk with your psychiatrist and say, Hey, we've been trying talk therapy, and I feel like, you know, she's still not able to sleep or she's still, you know, it's impacting her daily functioning. This is what I'm suggesting she gets a consultation with you.

Steve Martorano 
We're speaking to Dr. Alyson Nerenberg. She is a licensed psychologist, we're dealing with anxiety. Specifically, let me ask you, sort of the in the last area here. We have a year as we record this yet another horrific mass shooting in Maine. In this recording, 18 people are already dead. The entire State of Maine seems to be in lockdown. And the rest of the country is also reminded that we're not safe in an absolute sense, because of the violence, of mass shootings. And I'm going to use a horrible expression here. But how do we arm ourselves against the anxiety of a real threat, like mass shootings, overwhelming us?

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Our world has become pretty scary, with all these things that have been occurring. And what I recommend, and I do not mean to minimize it, is to do as much self-care as possible. And to really build up your support, whether it's exercising, whether it's talking to a friend, whether it's, you know, staying connected, whether it be with your church or your synagogue, just staying part of the community, and realize that we're all kind of doing grieving, grieving for the lives that are lost, like grieving for the tragedies grieving for the fact that some of our times our kids can't even go to school, and be safe. There's so much that we're all struggling with and kind of, we need to use each other for support.

Steve Martorano 
If someone wants to talk to a professional, like yourself, about issues of anxiety or whatever, I don't think enough people understand that that's a process as well. And sometimes you have to audition people, you have to find the right person. But most people refer to you through other people than it did to you or...

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Very much. So and it's that's one of the first questions I asked how did you hear about me, and usually it's from a friend and me, I feel like so much chemistry and connection because therapy is a relationship just like other relationships, and not everybody is going to be the right fit for everything.

Steve Martorano 
And it's okay to sit there that first session and maybe not make the connection after a couple and just politely say I've got I'm going to find somebody else.

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Well, I feel like when you have a good therapy relationship, it feels like you're coming home, you feel welcomed, you feel safe. You don't want to feel anxious, like does this person not understand me?

Steve Martorano 
So I want to find out about your book, or you wrote this. He wrote this over a year ago. I think.

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
 I wrote it during the pandemic, actually.

Steve Martorano 
Perfect use of your time.

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Well, you know, it was funny, my husband had said to me, you've been talking about writing this book. In the past. We've been together for 27 years. And he said, for almost 27 years that I've known you, you know, he said, you've been talking about writing this book if you don't write it now, when are you ever going to write it? Because we were home more and but we're usually pretty social people. And we were, you know, a lot less work was on our plate in some ways.

Steve Martorano 
That's where...that's where we're No Perfect Love came from? What do you mean by that?

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
I meant that there are so many expectations on all of us for our own peril. You hear about perfectionism. You know, there's been a lot of books written where people are hard on themselves, and they have this inner critic where they expect themselves to be perfect. But I think we also put that on our partners. We expect perfection, and somebody to completely understand us. We have these expectations for our children. You look at social media and you see all these happy families and people who look perfect. There's so much pressure you know, even from the time we're a little kids, and we see fairy here, fairy tales, and we expect romantic comedies everybody to be perfect. And so much of real life is messier than that. And you're gonna be with a person who may have some anxiety, and you may have your own stuff, and it's how can you work through the messiness.

Steve Martorano 
And we're constantly being fed the counter story there, which is the queen of pop music will meet the star athlete. And they will have this perfect relationship, and why can't I have it? And so it's good to remind people, that's probably not the way it usually works.

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
And a lot of times those crash and burn when their partners are not perfect. You know it this is the messiness of life and can we embrace what is instead of what should be?

Steve Martorano 
Well, that's absolutely true. And the only person I can think of who has enriched herself through that dysfunction is Taylor Swift, who takes every burned-out relationship and turns it into gold. So good for her. Dr. Alyson Nerenberg. Those of you in this area of the Philadelphia area want to find out more about her practice and how to reach her. She has a website, which we will have a link to on the Behavioral Corner. And I'm assuming you and your associates are accepting new patients.

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Yes, some people in my practice have availability we do our best to to bring in new people. Yes.

Steve Martorano 
Terrific. Where's your book available? Amazon and all that?

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Yes, it is available at Barnes and Noble at Amazon wherever you buy books.

Steve Martorano 
Well, we appreciate that. We appreciate your time. And so we're neighbors. If we don't do this again, we should wind up bumping into each other on the avenue.

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
I bet I'll run into you in Starbucks now.

Steve Martorano 
Okay, Alison Nurnberg thanks for joining us we appreciate it.

Dr. Alyson Nerenberg 
Take care bye bye.

Steve Martorano 
The rest of you guys don't forget you know how to do it. You follow us you like us you even critique us we we can handle that. But join us on the Behavioral Corner will be back. Bye bye.

Synergy Health Programs 
Millions of Americans are negatively affected daily by their mental health. Retreat has served the community for over ten years, offering comprehensive mental health programming through our mental health division, Synergy Health Programs. To learn more about Synergy, please reach out today at 855-802-6600.

The Behavioral Corner 
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