The Behavioral Corner 

Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano. And this is the Behavioral Corner; you're invited to hang with us, as we've discussed the ways we live today, the choices we make, the things we do, and how they affect our health and wellbeing. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner, please hang around a while. 

Steve Martorano 

Hey, guys, how you doing? Welcome to the Behavioral Corner, I'm your host and guide, which is a funny thing to say for a guy who hangs on a Corner. My name is Steve Martorano and what we do here on the Behavioral Corner is we sit we chat, and we run into really interesting people. The deal is that almost everybody if you're lucky, has something that they're about or doing. That certainly affects their health and well being. I mean, what is behavioral health except for the way we behave and how it impacts us physically, emotionally, spiritually. So, in that context, we're able to talk to a wide range of people, people in all kinds of, in this case, hustles, in a great sense, and find out what impact that's having on them. So that's what the Behavioral Corner is about and we hope you're liking it when you check us out. So underwritten by our great partners, which is Retreat Behavioral Health, and the fellow that we're going to talk to you today is gonna do some work with them, we're gonna find all about that TJ Griffin is, is I guess the best way to describe he is an entrepreneur. He is a man enmeshed in the music business. And he's also the founder of something called the Vision Program, which is a program set up to mentor at-risk young people. So we're really grateful we caught them coming out of the convenience store across the street corner, waving one over, he's gonna hang with us, TJ Griffith, thanks for joining us.

TJ Griffith 

Hey, what's up, Steve, I'm happy to be here. grateful to be here.

Steve Martorano 

This is a great topic because we'll get into it a little later on about directing positive energy and pathways for people in utterly desperate circumstances to see their way out of that. And nothing better sums up the Vision Program than the quote that sort of at the top of your website, which I loved, and it said, "Being born in the hood, doesn't mean you'll die in the hood." That's a great quote. We're gonna find out the whole thing right now with TJ Griffin. TJ, you founded this organization about 10 years ago?

TJ Griffith 

Yep, 2011 found the Vision Program. It's an acronym. So it stands, for now, Values Inspiring Students In Overcoming Negativity.

Steve Martorano 

How does that come out of your background? Your background is basically show business, right?

TJ Griffith 

Not really my background's -- the guy we talking about -- we're on the corner right here, Steve. So my background is I'm the guy on the corner. Okay, I'm from the inner city with everything that comes with that. So that's my background, and then I'm -- street dealer, then -- that's entrepreneurship, by the way, but just in the negative aspect. And then I could credit to the entrepreneurship and working with the youth and then getting into the music industry as a part-time thing. So many different avenues there but I'm I started on the corner.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah. It fabulous, that we found you. You're right where you need to be back on the corner. This is a fascinating thing. Where are you from? Tell us a little about your background.

TJ Griffith 

All right, great. I was born in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. And it's actually a famous little town is known for it some Amish community country beautiful country, side, and farmland, but was not known nationally as Lancaster city, which is this little now very beautiful. Always been very beautiful. gentrified now as well and is one of the top destinations in the country to visit and retire by Forbes magazine. But there's also an inner city in this place that's kind of hidden. And you don't see that on the brochures, you'll see that on the Amish community. You don't see that on television. But there's this inner-city that is plagued by, you know, the same things that are plagued by the Inner City, Philadelphia, already gangs and everything that come from that. So I grew up in that environment. And my mother and father split at an early age. The difference between a lot of me a lot of my friends that I was close to is a lot of my friends, more than 50% didn't have an active father in the household. I didn't have that because my mother and father split apart due to addiction. My dad battle alcoholism, his whole life was out of control. alcoholism at that time, he was still always a phone call away from me away from him. So I needed my dad, even if he was hungover, he would get up and show up. If I needed $10 or something my dad would get it to me. A lot of my friends didn't have that. So I didn't have that foundation in my life. But he battled addiction. My mother remarried and then they battled addiction. My mother's battling cocaine addiction and then through all that the guidance that I have As a younger kid in my teenage years started to weaken a little bit. My mom was, you know, always on top of me. TJ get up, go to get your butt to school. I mean, where's your report card coming? I need to see this paperwork showing up. When addiction snuck into her life, it was no longer even checking on my report card used to get your butt up and go to school. Boy, it's eight o'clock. Now she'd knock at nine and say, Are you going to go today? So you got a kid that's already engulfed in the inner city life. Dad's there for him, but not in the household. So I can get away with a whole lot. And my mom battling this addiction, so I just lost a lot of accountability. I'm sorry to travel down the other path.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, yeah. Well, the drug man changes everybody's priority. No mom starts out, thinking, Well, today I stopped paying attention to my kid, the drug just sets its own agenda. I certainly understand that. You know, it's interesting. No matter where you go in this country, we're familiar, generally speaking, familiar with pockets of poverty, and isolation. But I think most people see them in the context of big cities. You know, it'd be hard-pressed to find somebody who would be surprised to find out that there's a hood in Chicago or LA or thing. But we don't think about that phenomenon occurring in the suburban areas or urban areas like you're talking about? Because I know the area you're talking about. It's farmland. White.

TJ Griffith 

Yeah. And yeah. And now beautiful growth and prosperous downtown and city. But inside beautiful extenders, an inner-city full of poverty, death. You know, somebody was killed last week. This is it all the time thing right here. And that's all across this nation all across this country pockets like this.

Steve Martorano 

So I understand what you're saying about Lancaster's now hip, great guys to take all that new money and run off the farmland. And what does it feel like for the young people you deal with who see that change? But their circumstance doesn't change? What effect does that have on that?

TJ Griffith 

It's routine. So it's just used to that? You don't the effect is your belief system when you don't see people of your own or people around you. If you don't see that, that growth and success in your daily life become like a pipe dream.

Steve Martorano 

I worry that what it also leads to is this sense that you're right they're not surprised by it. Right? But it leads to a sense of the game is fixed. Somebody doesn't want me to get ahead.

TJ Griffith 

Yeah.Yeah. And that's actually a mindset that is this fact, there's truth to that the game most fixed, we can go you know, systemic racism, all that stuff is a whole other conversation. The game is fixed. But what I try to do with some of my programming, I think we should...Can I go back a little bit, Steve, real quick?

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, absolutely. 

TJ Griffith 

I think we understand what the Vision Program is. I came up that way -- and maybe you're going to come back to that question -- but the Vision Program is really an organization that is designed to mentor educate, inspire incarcerated youth, incarcerated youth, or court judicata youth that a lot of times fell through the cracks, and now they're in the system now they're kind of like forgotten about. And that's why I founded the Vision Program and that the at-risk youth are the ones that need to see different avenues because there are ways to make it. So that was the foundation of the Vision Program.

Steve Martorano 

Well, that's exactly what, you know, I was going to get to and those people not only know the game is fixed, they got fixed during jail, right? Like, okay, well, we're, I wonder as somebody your position, and in the Vision Program, the first thing you got to do is is acknowledge to them yeah, I get it, man. You're right. You're right. It's fixed. I get it. And they move beyond that to go

TJ Griffith 

What are we gonna do about it? 

Steve Martorano 

Because just because it's fixed. You can't You can't quit.

TJ Griffith 

And for generations, we haven't we've been saying, Hey, we, we need this, we need that. Why don't they give us more opportunity? Why don't we get this? Why don't we and there has to come a time where you know, you say okay, now what am I going to do? Stop saying we need this and we need you to do so much and take action within your own community within your own life. And that's part of what my program teaches and mentors are yes. All this is real systemic racism real the poverty was real. The abuse was real neglect was real. Yes. All this was real. But now that we know what are we doing? And a lot of times we take the street mentality and we use that as a deflection as a way of giving up and saying Yes, I'm a street Dude, this is what I am. This is who I am. So what I'm gonna do for it, almost like a badge of honor to be this is to not break free and to not change and not to find a way out.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah. And the proof is in the number of young black men under lock and key in this country. I mean, it's unbelievable.

TJ Griffith 

And a street kid like me, even though I had a father in the house. I mean, I had a stepfather in the household to my mom before they got divorced. I had a father in my life, but when you but I also was on welfare. You know, my dad had a good job. And he, he worked in a factory mom was on and off for welfare. I never really had all the nice things. By the time I'm a teenager when you come from poverty, and all you see around you is poverty, materialistic things and money become very, very important to you. Because you want to find a way out of this hell, what you try to do you try to relate to people, as you said earlier relate to people that have money and your community, you don't see that much unless just a local drug dealer. You know, a couple of people that work businesses, you know, small businesses, you know, a couple of people have careers and, but they're all coming back, we can check the check-in the hood still broke still in the welfare with the welfare card. So you don't want to be that you look for people to identify with. What I did is I said, Okay, the drug dealer is getting money. He looks like me, he comes where I come from, I can do what he can do, but also who look like me are athletes. And they look like me. Some of them come from these neighborhoods. And they made it and they have the mansions and the money. And then the third person is the rapper. The rapper looks like he comes from the environment, he has the girls in the jewels in the bling, and the mansions. I can do that. Because they see it's just a belief system. When you see people like you that come from where you come from, and they attained something you believe you can attain that. And we don't see the doctors and the lawyers and the business owners and the college graduates who were on TV, or what the teachers tried to say. So I wanted to be a rapper, I was gonna be a rapper, and I was gonna hustle, illegal hustle until I became a rapper that became my only way out because I didn't know any better.

Steve Martorano 

You know, what's interesting about that phenomenon, only poor people aren't allowed to keep score by material means, you know, they've got their own way. What do you want all that bling for? Excuse me a second, who don't want bling? What? Are you kidding me? Only poor people are not allowed to keep score. That way. We all keep score that way. That's, unfortunately, how we keep score. So when you talk about hustle, you're talking about it in the most positive way. Because clearly, you're not saying to young people, everybody's going to be JZ or everybody. Everybody's going to be Michael Jordan. You want to like the light in their head that says Oh, but there's a way out of here.

TJ Griffith 

Yeah, yeah. So the art of the hustle is actually a curriculum and it's also a series of programs and workshops I do and what it basically is just kids like myself everything I teach is not for every kid that's just what it is I'm the hip hop dude from the block from the corner and that's the God has put on a passion for me to focus on kids like myself in the meantime I get to work and blessed with so many other I didn't try that's my focus demographic kids that is there's a lot of them in the system that struggles academically it's just not something that they do well at I was one of those kids. And um there's a lot of people that don't do well in school. 

Steve Martorano 

Yeah.

TJ Griffith 

I was one of the kids I hated school, Steve. I hated the pressures I hated everything about it. It was just by the time six seventh grade came I wasn't interested at all and society said well wait for a minute son you need to continue going to this and go to these get these degrees. If you want to be successful son this rat games probably not gonna do it. And they're drug dealers definitely not you need to go get these degrees. I'm the kid saying But Miss, I can't stand school. And when I work my hardest I get C's. How am I going there? It's not realistic. 

Steve Martorano 

Yeah. 

TJ Griffith 

He's like that in the system to say okay, shit, excuse my language, but they say, Well, I can go get my -- I got my diploma, I can go get a job and do all right. But then what they see all these different avenues. They said, Wait a minute, I rather I see my mom who has a job My mom has a diploma is we're still broke. I can go get some money here. So my program says Hold on. Guess what the kid with the C's can hire the kid with the A's to do what he can do and be in his business. simple phrases like that we'll have a kid Park what Mr. What? No, no, no, no, no, no, I'm trying to tell you now entrepreneurship is not for everybody because you got to be a hustler. For real you claim to be a hustler and all your raps and all your in here for selling drugs. So you claim you're a hustler. Let me see can switch it. A real hustler can take that energy is switching you can sell an ounce a week you can sell a house as long as you know how to get the profit right. And it's like that. When I say that they say wait a minute, wait a minute. I'm like yeah, I said guess how many degrees the bank asks for? Guess how many degrees they asked for when you need 25 grand to start your business. How many mister? I say none! What!?! Guess how many -- see this information they never had before Steve. So afraid that they get the young man or young girl like me sitting in this facility saying, Wait, what? And I have your attention. Let's say guess what? The art the hustle is just learning about financial literacy, understanding assets and liabilities, understanding what credit is, how to maneuver in it, and understanding generational poverty, how because your grandmother was on welfare, that's why your mom was on welfare. And that's why you're on welfare unless you break this generational poverty in this mindset. See kids that don't do well academically or not fit that box, in my community give up, they give up. Hell with that I am working through that little bit of money. It's worth me risking my life, which is crazy, but it's the mindset worth me risking my life and my freedom, to feel good to have something nice on. To have a decently nice car. I'm not doing that and struggling, and they choose it, which is miseducation, then the environment now will give you a badge of honor, and salute you for being that position of the drug dealer. So that's education. Sorry, I get a little carried away.

Steve Martorano 

Listen, it takes passion. TJ Griffin with us. He's the founder of the Vision Program. These are the techniques he's talking about, that he employs, when he meets these young men and women I suspect, who are either under lock and key are about to be under lock and key breaking through to move past the negative feedback loop to see the positive thing. Listen, there's nothing new about young people in a community, looking at older guys who are on a hustle, whether they're Jewish gangsters, Italian American gangsters, and going, I could do that. I have to do that. What's missing in that is, and I know what goes on in the communities you're talking to? There is an enormous amount of potential energy, a certain kind of intelligence sometimes very, very significant, hard work. Right? And it's untapped. If I hear you right, TJ, you said, you've got to go to these people where they are not where you think they ought to be?

TJ Griffith 

Yes. Meet them where you are. Sometimes you can't maybe show up on the block or the corner, but you can meet them where they are cultural.

Steve Martorano 

And so the expectations change, suddenly, you're not saying that you know, no, you've got to sit in class four hours a day or you, you've got to pursue this kind of way out of here. Because you're right, some people are not scholars.

TJ Griffith 

Yeah. Well, my message is always my message, always, I gotta make it clear. Because what I'm teaching the opportunities in entrepreneurship, education is key in America, I tell them all the time, you better get your diploma or your GED, you need to focus, but for some of the youth that is going and now even vo-tech is such a great opportunity. Now in America, you guys for half the time for a little bit of money and make more money coming out to kids coming up with college degrees. So that's a great opportunity. But there is that little group of kids out of 10 kids locked up at that juvenile detention in your hood, I mean, in your community or your hood. Now, then 10, five of them, or four of them, are not even going to vo-tech, they, they just can't do more school, that's the forum trying to say you can get a decent job. That's great. That's what a man or woman does success ain't money. But if you need a little more entrepreneurship is a viable option for you. Once they believe that you'd be surprised that the lights that go off, and then the questions that come in, and once they have their attention in the questions coming back and feed them and connect them to the information they need. 

Steve Martorano 

For the broader community, though, the lesson should be and we don't learn this fast enough, is that again, as I said, there's a lot of untapped potentials. These are hard-working people, and they want to get ahead a great story. I just read about Floyd McKissick, who was you know, one of the leaders of the civil rights movement in the 60s, he, he formed CORE, I think the Congress of Racial Equality. And in reading about him, the discussion of McDonald's came up, which is interesting. McDonald's in the 60s saw the city's burning. So what racial strife had led to such frustration and violence, but McDonald's wanted to open franchises in those neighborhoods, right? Rather than pull out of those neighborhoods, saying it's too dangerous. They went away to them. Let's go find people in that community that will help them get franchises and let them be owner-operators. So they have a stake in it. You know, maybe there'll be less violence. You know, today, the National Association of Black McDonald's franchise owners is the biggest organization of its type in the world. 

TJ Griffith 

Wow. Wow. 

Steve Martorano 

It's a great story. And it's underreported because if McDonald's is smart enough to do it, a lot of other businesses can do it. Let me ask you as someone who's you know, the point of the spear going into these communities and mentoring these kids, how much help do you get from the broader business community? Are they onboard with you?

TJ Griffith 

I don't really reach out for a whole lot of help. I have been helped and the times I've had reached out for help and support whether that will just be marketing or sponsorship. I've gotten it. But I haven't reached out for a whole lot of help. It's just something that I just move forward doing. And I was, in the beginning, it was because I use hip hop, hip hop culture, and hip hop music. I'm the hip hop guy. So I will be getting a lot of resistance to that. These guys gonna come in here and teach hip hop and rap and haven't really gotten much help haven't asked for much help. Vision Program is a social enterprise. So I do it by myself. And I have some sister companies and a lot of the revenue that we make goes back into the youth that we serve in the communities we serve.

Steve Martorano 

So let's talk about hip hop culture. You mentioned it several times, and hip hop techniques. How would you describe the culture surrounding hip hop to someone who had no idea what was going on?

TJ Griffith 

Yeah, so people think hip hop you think rap right away music. The simplest way as I could say is someone who says -- what is rap is something you do. Hip Hop is something you live,

Steve Martorano 

Rap is something you do hip hop, break it down for me.

TJ Griffith 

Rap is an element of the culture of hip hop. Hip hop is a culture, I am hip hop, it pumps through my blood, it's part of the way I walk, my talk my slang the way my pants sag a little bit, not in a disrespectful way, I could meet with you in the founder Retreat, and you would never see my pants sag, but they sagging a little bit. So it's part of my culture. Rap is an element of the four elements of hip hop. I use that culture and my experience working in the business, I have credibility working in the hip hop, genre business in the music business. And I use that to help bridge the gap with the kids I serve. So I've had like a plus two. One plus is they can look at me and my success and see that I was locked up like them in the system. I come from the same environment. And I found a way out, I can show them and I made what they consider successful. Then I show them that I worked in the music industry, and they can see the credibility with that I have their full undivided attention. So I don't do anything special. Why? It's because I have credibility were the kid that normally shuts down when the overhead comes in trying to teach it What's this guy get? I have this credibility with him. That's where you know, I can get the message across. Here's a little lesson real quick. Hip Hop is the biggest selling genre of music in the world today. Not even 50 years ago, they said it would never last. It's the biggest selling and streaming music on the planet today. It's only been a few years holding that position. But looks like it's not going anywhere. Every urban environment on the planet Earth is governed by hip-hop culture. In every urban environment from the hoods of Japan, to Kenya Africa, you'll find murals of Tupac Shakur. That's powerful

Steve Martorano 

It is. Yeah, it is. And you know what extends well beyond the urban scene. What's interesting about the culture that you've just described, is that they talk about culture wars, right? 

TJ Griffith 

Yeah.

Steve Martorano 

Culture wars, that war's over. Hip hop won -- it won! It is, every white kid you know, he they don't listen, a couple of want to grow up to be I guess...

TJ Griffith 

See, this is factual. No genre of music and the history that we've been here has brought more races together globally than hip hop music. It's a fact. No genre of music is penetrated more different races and cultures have grown and gathered in hip hop. It's such a cool thing.

Steve Martorano 

It's a great conversation for you to have because you know what's an interesting look, the contribution of people of color, artistically and culturally, we don't need to go into but music -- are you kidding? I mean, first of all, there's jazz music, which is the only truth you know about authentic American creation right? We know where that came from. We know where that came from. But you know, pop music and rock and roll without African Americans without people of color. None of that happens the difference? Tell me if I'm wrong. Now. The difference between what happened to rock and roll and what happened to hip hop? Is that at the beginning of rock and roll white culture went boom? We can make a lot of money with that but we gotta have a white guy doing this.

TJ Griffith 

Yeah, yeah.

Steve Martorano 

I mean maybe Chuck Berry a little bit later but not right now. Let's be honest the wait didn't happen with hip hop did it?

TJ Griffith 

Yeah, and the white guy was a bad boy too! With hip hop, it came straight from the..

Steve Martorano 

Yes. They didn't go looking for Pat Boone.

TJ Griffith 

Yeah.

Steve Martorano 

They went well. Let's let them do it. Yeah, they're doing it let them do it. And so the and the power of that is just so overwhelming. I always tell people this all the time. If it wasn't for the contribution of African Americans and pop music we'd still be doing John Philip Sousa marches.

TJ Griffith 

That's true, Steve.

Steve Martorano 

Board the death. It would be awful. But again, let's get back to what you do. Because yeah, that's a pretty package you bring to these guys. Look at this. Look at Snoop. Snoop was like shooting people. Look at now with Martha Stewart. Look Jay Z, Who's bigger than Jay Z?!? Jay Z was selling dope, you know, and all that.

TJ Griffith 

And that's part of what I do, Steve, because when I can establish street credibility with my history and then hip hop, credibility, I have their ears. That's when I can actually penetrate and say a lot of the stuff in hip hop is miseducation. I love the culture. I love the music guys. It's It's me. But that doesn't mean I gotta be real. A lot of this stuff is nonsense. A lot of the messages that were that the gutters are giving is detrimental to our well being and they even live in it. You guys are living in more than the rapper you're listening to the says he's killing up everybody. So I cheated when I had their attention. Not anybody can go in there and say that, you start talking about the culture and the artists they love. They will shut down on you so quit and get out of here. But since I bring this credibility, I can say Listen, you know, rappers that don't really live this lifestyle. They have off duty police officers garden you guys think they're killers. And they're this and they're not in this entertainment. Al Pacino. Y'all know who that is? Some say yeah, so y'all ever see Scarface everybody's hand goes up. Tony Montana. You know, he's really an actor named Al Pacino, he's not a Colombian King. He's not a kingpin. The rapper isn't either. So I can say this stuff in certain messages, some of hip hop educators. Well, I teach them the culture and get them through this miseducation, which also goes back to street culture and all of it together. Hip Hop culture and street culture of one in the same. But there are elements of hip hop culture that have gotten watered down, and I've digressed. And I bring that to their attention as well.

Steve Martorano 

Yeah, in what way are we talking about?

TJ Griffith 

The music aspect of hip hop used to be a, it isn't always gonna be a magnifying glass to what's happening with the youth in the streets and the culture. It's always a magnifying glass. But it used to be a time or two that didn't glorify what was what the kids see when he opened up the window. You heard the message by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, don't push me cuz I'm close to the edge. That was a song about the environment, the first street song, and hip hop. It's like a jungle. Sometimes it makes me wonder how I keep from going under. The jungle is this environment. It makes me wonder how I'm still alive. It's so hard. And he talks about prostitution. He talks about the crackheads in the alleyway, the piss on the floor, and that he's just like, he don't push him because he's close to the edge. And I don't want to be here anymore. That used to be hip hop showing the world look what to some private we live in, will be struggling in how do we get out? Then it's digressed to a point that we've embraced the environment and the music and say, yeah, I'm a street dude, I love this. Yeah, may I push drugs? That was against the elements of the culture, the beginning, you weren't allowed to get high, you weren't allowed to push drugs, you weren't allowed to do any of that. Then we turned to become a glorified position in the streets, which then you hear through the music. So that's part of the problem. 

Steve Martorano 

We're talking to TJ Griffin, he is the founder of the Vision Program. an anachronism that stands for values inspiring students in overcoming negativity. TJ, do you go into prisons?

TJ Griffith 

Yeah, juvenile prisons and juvenile facilities?

Steve Martorano 

To crack through the facade of the culture, you're talking about, you know, the picture of it, to the underlying values of it. What does it take? Because the kid sitting there thinking, what, what is he talking about? The way out of here is to become rich and famous as a rapper.

TJ Griffith 

The breakthrough the facade is... I did a TED Talk called the Paper Plane Effect, a TED Talk, called the Paper Plane Effect. And the Paper Plane Effect is basically about environments and how it affects the child's belief system. But the way I can affect the use mindset that is so already so miseducated and so embedded in him, is to only show him or her somebody like them, and how they made it out. That's why they identify with the rapper, and the drug dealer because they, they're people that they have to identify with they have found a way out to success, which usually looks like money to them at a young age. When I can show them I got a little bit of that stuff called money. I got a nice little house and a nice car. And I put it in my yard. I'm not a millionaire, which couple I can show them some success. They pay attention. That's how you breakthrough and then they see that you can't really look Look what oh, by the way, I also wasn't working the rat game a little bit what! I broke through. So guess what? Did I use to be in a place like this Where? Guess what? I got a learning disability. I got ADHD. What? I'm breaking through Steve. And I said okay, what did you do? TJ? This is what I did. I checked my circle of friends. What a stupid crazy school. I thought you couldn't do school. No, I do this school. I show him the books. See the video at least when I showed the video for the podcast listeners. I just knock over my books.

Steve Martorano 

The bus went by hit the newspaper box here on the Corner.

TJ Griffith 

But then I show them the books. The books and I show them - see I'm not saying education is definitely for me guys. Look at these books and how many books I read, by the way, that Vision Program has actually given away, over 700 copies now of personal development books to incarcerated youth, like Rich Dad, Poor Dad, Demetra - the kid in the CIA, Purpose Driven Life. I partnered up with another author by the name of Tom Pace and giving away hundreds of books to incarcerated kids.

Steve Martorano 

A lot of these kids have reading learning disabilities that are undiagnosed, right? They have problems reading, tension, and stuff like that.

TJ Griffith 

PTSD, like so much....so much trauma stress in your life. So it's just a lot.

Steve Martorano 

Trauma is, I think, under-appreciated. You're right. I mean, there are all kinds of people who associate trauma with a specific thing that may have happened in your life, when in fact, traumatic events can be just waking up in a poor neighborhood every morning. That's traumatic.

TJ Griffith 

And you're unaware of it. Unaware you're whole life. Be carrying around this\rauma in your life. Sure. It's normal in many environments. There are millions and millions of kids that the stuff they see day in and day out is just normal, normal life. 

Steve Martorano 

Yeah. So I guess a fish about the water, fishes know what you're talking about. TJ, this is just fantastic. I know you're going to be doing some stuff with Retreat. And I look forward to when that happens, maybe getting you back on the air and talk a little bit more with you. If folks listening want more information about Vision Program - what should they do?

Unknown Speaker 

You can check us out at the website, the VisionProgram.com reach me out there. I'm social media on Instagram and I am TJ Griffin and we now have a sister company called Creative Hope Studios, where we're going into agencies and treatment centers and programs and building creative spaces with recording studios, for facilities bit of use for treatment and Rec and rec as well. So check us out the VisionProgram.com or CreativeHomeStudios.com. And shout out to Steve for having me on the Corner. Walk you know and keeping it safe for me. I can hang out here and in the worry about I appreciate that. Shout out to Marisha to it Retreat in Brian and everybody else over there.

Steve Martorano 

Well, TJ, thank you. This is important work. Absolutely important and good for you for doing it. Hey, come back again. Well, hang, anytime.

TJ Griffith 

Thanks again, brother. Have a good one.

Steve Martorano 

You too. 

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