The Behavioral Corner
Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano. And this is the Behavioral Corner; you're invited to hang with us, as we've discussed the ways we live today, the choices we make, the things we do, and how they affect our health and wellbeing. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner, please hang around a while

Steve Martorano 

Hey everybody and how are you? Welcome to the Behavioral Corner. It's me again, Steve Martorano, the only person that I know of who actually sort of gets to hang out on the street corner and make it worth his while. Most people are killing time. I'm out here on the behavioral corner hoping I run into interesting people who might shed some light on some important issues for us concerning our behavioral health. And you know what, I'm extraordinarily lucky. They keep dropping by it's just amazing. And, this edition of the behavioral corner is no different than the others. I hope we got some good stuff for you. It's all brought to you by our underwriter partners Retreat Behavioral Health. When you hear this on the podcast, we have rounded the Corner into the holiday season, or as Andy Williams is fond of reminding us every 30 seconds, "the most wonderful time of the year." Well, yes and no. We're going to talk about home for the holidays, which should come as no surprise, anybody who's both joyful and potentially stress-inducing. Holidays are difficult not to demand, a lot of expectations. Sometimes disappointments. Tough. It takes a pro to handle the holidays. That's what I always say if you were to add to this situation, which you all experience, a history of substance abuse, and then recovery on top of it all -- the effort to you know, recover from substance abuse -- it can be a toxic stew, no matter how wonderful a time of the year it is. So we went out and we got ourselves to some people who have been there and done that, to tell us what their experience has been going home for the holidays. To that end want to welcome Gloria Gallagher. Hi, Gloria.

Gloria Gallagher 
How are you? It's great to be here.

Steve Martorano 
I'm good. It's nice, nice for you to spend some time with us. I know it's an interesting weekend. We're doing this right after Thanksgiving. So I've intruded upon some of their long weekends. And Rennie Affoumado joins us. That's Renny up there. He's the one with the beard if you're watching this thing...on YouTube. Renny joins us from Retreat Behavioral Health where he works and we'll find out about that. Combined these two folks represent almost 40 years of sobriety. We're gonna find out their backstories right now. So Gloria, why don't we begin with you? You have the lion's share of this sobriety. You have been sober for how long now?

Gloria Gallagher 
Thirty-two years. I'm in personal long-term recovery. I have 32 years.

Steve Martorano 
It's remarkable. It's the thing we don't talk often enough about is that there are millions of people in long-term sobriety. So congratulations to you. Tell us about yourself. Where are you from? Where did you grow up?

Gloria Gallagher 
Well, I'm originally from Hershey, PA. I was born to a blue-collar working-class, Italian American family. My mother was a teenage mother. She had me when she was 15. And so we lived with my grandparents for the first couple of years. And then she got married and married my adopted father. And I've always been very close to my grandparents. However, I like many, many others when I hit adolescence, I just had a lot of issues that I had never dealt with. And I was looking for love in all the wrong places and it just so happens that I found that in drugs and alcohol.

Steve Martorano 
How early on did that happen for you?

Gloria Gallagher 
Oh, I probably first discovered alcohol as early as six or seven. And I was smoking pot at like 11 and 12. And I had taken a school trip to New York City and I got the "New York City bug" and I actually ran away from home and discovered all sorts of harder drugs, cocaine, and heroin. And I was introduced that way. At the age of 15. (I) started getting in trouble very early. I stole a car. I ended up in institutions. I was incarcerated. You know, several times before I was 18. And so yeah, I was...

Steve Martorano 
The real deal.

Gloria Gallagher 
 I was into the lifestyle. Yes,

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. Then you ran the gamut of substance abuse from alcohol to the whole menu?

Gloria Gallagher 
Absolutely. Yes.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. Renny? How about you? What's the situation? By the way, I say this all the time. All stories of substance abuse and recovery are the same, except they're different. And it's proven every time. Renny, what about you?

Renny Affoumado 
So yeah, I mean, I grew up in New York City, downtown Manhattan. A family of three brothers, my two older brothers are a lot older than me, eight and 11 years. A very loving family -- my parents just celebrated 60 years of marriage. So there was a lot of love in the family and... but that didn't matter. You know, I, my older brothers kind of paved the way for me a little bit. I started smoking pot at a very young age, probably eight or nine years old, is the first time I smoked. And then I started drinking alcohol beer, primarily, if not some hard liquor, you know, around 11, or 12. That's what my friends were doing. I hung out with a lot of older people. Skateboarding through New York City, you know, hanging out and not going to school. I mean, the first time I got left-back was in fourth grade. So it was around the same time I started smoking pot. You know, it was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun until it wasn't, you know, I did get a lot of trouble but I never had really any big consequences until eventually, I did. You know, that's kind of the backstory there.

Steve Martorano 
I'm always struck by -- I'm no longer stuck, I should say, by the ages. I mean, the first time somebody told me they blackout drinking, and they were, you know, 10. I was stunned. No more. I mean, you know, that's a pretty standard age. You mentioned your brother's being a sort of negative role model for your Renny. But, Gloria, and both of you with regard to your family, was there any history of substance abuse in the families that you are aware of?

Gloria Gallagher 
Yes, the women in my family like to drink alcohol, predominantly. My mother used substances. We have mental health that goes back as probably generations. I never realized that until I was much, you know, later into recovery. And I, I could identify the symptoms that I was observing. But yes, I would say mental health, substance use, you know, my mother used to want to stay under a certain weight. So she would...she would use diet pills and speed and smoke marijuana. And...and by all outside appearances, no one would have ever known that. But, you know, it was a much different story inside of our home.

Steve Martorano 
Renny, were your brothers similarly abusing substances?

Renny Affoumado 
So one of my brothers actually moved away when I was pretty young. He went to the West Coast. And my...the other brother that I had, you know, my father and him, you know, they drank, and they used marijuana. And they're artists, they're musicians, it's kind of the thing. And growing up in the late 70s and early 80s. That's, that's what was going on, especially down in the village, you know. So it was commonplace, our friends were doing it. My friends were doing it a young age. So it wasn't like it was out of the norm. You know? But it did affect our lives, for sure. For sure.

Steve Martorano 
When I say I was only being half facetious when I said, well, the stories are alike, but they're different. One of the hallmarks of the similarities is that the substance abuser winds up either consciously or unconsciously putting themselves in a place where the behavior seems normal. Right? You sort of find yourself gravitating towards like-minded people. "We're all doing the same thing. Can't be bad." And you're right if you grow up Renny in the right moment or the wrong moment. And society, you know, wide says, well, that's okay. It's just smoking pot, it can just seem normal. Until as you say, it's no longer normal. Before we get into, you know, back in the house for the holidays, how many times in treatment for you Gloria, overall?

Gloria Gallagher 
I was in three times. Two of which were long-term treatment facilities -- over six months each.

Renny Affoumado 
So for me, I was in an inpatient facility once. I was in multiple outpatient facilities over many, many years. Which never seemed to work for me.

Steve Martorano 
So it's safe to say that both of you put an enormous amount of stress and anxiety not only on yourself but on your families. They were aware of what you were going through to the extent they could help you I guess, they did. They certainly knew what was happening in your life. So let's get to what we're really here to talk about. It's that time of the year. People get together. Families gather. Gloria to take a moment and if you can, can you recall those first few times when you were still actively using -- were you engaged in the family, or were you estranged completely?

Gloria Gallagher 
I was mostly estranged. I had two much younger siblings at home and I left home -- I dropped out of school early in the 10th grade, never to go back. I got -- I ended up getting my GED while I was incarcerated. Before I go on, I just want to make one point. and absolutely, 100%, the family was stressed out. I was missing an action, most of the time. We didn't have cell phones back then. So no one really ever knew where I was. But I do want to say that, you know, early in my life as things, you know, happened in my life. We weren't a family that talked about anything. So I didn't know how to deal with anything that was going on internally. And so my coping mechanism was to run and to use drugs. And you're right, I saw out I was attracted to that crowd. So everybody was stressed around the holidays. But I was mostly avoidant of my family early in my addiction and early in recovery.

Steve Martorano 
Want to get to Renny in a second. But this is what we're here to talk about. When you began to get a handle on your recovery -- when you were making those first steps. When did you feel you could reintroduce yourself to your family? Do you remember making a conscious decision? Okay, I'm gonna...I'm going to step back in that life, do you remember that?

Gloria Gallagher 
I never fully stepped back in. I have small bouts of interactions with my family. It's much, much better now. But early for...I would say for quite a long time, I had very small intervals of contact. It's what I had to do. Family recovery was not popular 30 years ago. You know? The focus was on me and my addiction and my illness. So the family really didn't have coping mechanisms either.

Steve Martorano 
And Renny how about you...how about you -- those first steps back?

Renny Affoumado 
Coming out of the last treatment center that I was in, it took a little bit of time for my immediate family, my...she's now my wife and my kids to accept me back into the house. I was couch surfing on my parent's couch for a while. But so let me back into the holidays and things like that, you know, that was kind of more up to where I was at in my head. I had to be prepared for that. I wasn't necessarily ready for that right off the bat. I have a very supportive family and they were waiting for me to come back. You know, I had to really make sure that I was ready as well because I didn't want to put myself or jeopardize the sobriety that I worked for to get into a place where I was going to lose it just like that. And that's what would happen if it wasn't mentally or spiritually prepared for it.

Steve Martorano 
Well, you know, that's...that's really interesting. I want to ask you both about that as well. How do you now feel -- and how did you feel in those early days -- about the holidays? I mean, did they...you saw them coming. Here they come again. Did you run from them? Or did you...what did you get out of it, Gloria? Was it a problem for you looking at the holidays?

Gloria Gallagher 
What time period are we talking about now?

Steve Martorano 
No, no, early on when you're still trying to get your feet under you.

Gloria Gallagher 
I dreaded the holidays. They were a very miserable, sad, lonely time for me. I really didn't know how to approach them. I was very fortunate the first couple of years that I was in recovery -- I'm about an hour from my family so it wasn't that easy for me to get to them. I relocated to the town where I went to treatment in Lancaster and I got into service really, really early on. And that honestly takes me right through the holidays, it lifts my spirits. If you can get into the mindset that giving in, you're only going to receive if you give and that's your time. That's your you know, service. That is what hooked me right there is to get through the holidays was to perform good deeds.

Steve Martorano 
Well, you use the magic word, their glory, and I want to ask Renny about it. That's a "dread." Dread. You know, there are so many expectations associated with the holidays. I mean, the commercial aspect of it alone is enough to drive you insane. It's almost required to be joyful and happy. And if you don't feel it, that's even worse. Dread is the right word. How was it for you Renny? Did you just go "Here they come again?"

Renny Affoumado 
Oh, yeah, you know, and early sobriety for me my first Christmas or holiday season, we...my family. We moved to Florida actually. And that's where I started with Retreat. And my family, my brothers, my parents, they came down to us. So it was like this horde of family coming down and what was I going to expect? You know, is it going to be the same as it was? You know, there were things that that I didn't work out with my family yet -- amends that needed to be made and, and things of that nature. So I wasn't really prepared for it. And I expected the worst. And what I found was that if I just came in there knowing and Gloria you hit the nail on the head service, right? I'm allowed to be with my family. Now I get to do these things, you know if these aren't things that...that is owed to me, they're not. So if I'm allowed to be there, that aspect of it, it's so much easier. You know, I make a turkey now, that's what I love to do. I love making a turkey. And that's okay. You know, feed people.

Steve Martorano 
Gloria and I spoke prior to her coming here on the Corner. And it was the first thing you mentioned was, here's how to integrate what the season is all about. And that's helped somebody else. So service is key. That's a great tip all by itself. Renny, you mentioned something else that's interesting for people wondering, "Oh, my god, how am I going to look back at that house? What's it going to be like?" It helps, doesn't it when you have -- you said you didn't know what to expect -- it helps when you can manage your expectations, correct?

Renny Affoumado 
Well, you know, I can't really...it's hard to manage them. You know, what I have to understand is that whatever's going to happen is going to happen. And I just have to be prepared to ask for help if I need to. That's really what I need to do. Because no matter what I do -- the physicality whatever is going to happen -- it's going to happen. So I just need to be prepared and have the tools to get through those situations. And it's never as bad as I think, you know, it's that fear of the unknown.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, I think that's what I meant by managing and understanding...having reasonable expectations, I think is what I met. Renny Affoumado is our guest along with Gloria Gallagher here to talk about their sobriety. They're both wildly successful. They have been sober for many, many years. We congratulate him on that. They're talking about how they achieve that. A couple of things about what you guys are doing, Gloria, you are with the DDPA, correct, in Pennsylvania.

Gloria Gallagher 
I'm with the PA department of drug and alcohol programs. We call...we call it "DDAP." It's not it's not the most popular term.

Steve Martorano 
DDAP?

Gloria Gallagher 
Yeah. But...

Steve Martorano 
What do you do with it? 

Gloria Gallagher 
I'm a drug and alcohol program representative. I do quality assurance. And right now we're aligning providers with the ASAM, which is the American Society for Addiction Medicine criteria, another unpopular term to some. But yes, I've been in state government for over 25 years.

Steve Martorano 
Renny, you are with our underwriting partner, Retreat Behavioral Health, you're working in the new Connecticut facility, correct?

Renny Affoumado 
I am yeah, we a...just opened a little over -- almost two years now -- February, almost two years ago -- in New Haven, Connecticut,. And I am a shift administrator and a manager of the CA department, the clinical aid department, as well as...I wear a lot of hats.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, and the work they both do -- incredibly important under any circumstances -- but we just passed some grim milestone, this year with 100,000 deaths from drug overdoses. The game has changed dramatically. Those of you following it. Relapse is something not to be surprised about. Never has been. It doesn't automatically mean defeat. It has to historically. It's a stumble, and you get back up and try to finish the race. Unfortunately, the dynamic has changed. And now that margin of error, to pick yourself up and start again, is vanishingly small because fentanyl will kill you. And I only mentioned this because well, first of all, the death toll is extraordinary. But again to our theme about home and family for the holidays, how concerned were you in general during the holidays, even today, that you might be tempted to relapse? Is there anything that triggers you guys about the holidays that you worry about? Gloria?

Gloria Gallagher 
Well, absolutely. In the beginning? Yes, I was. I was constantly concerned about returning to us. And I did not feel that I was like out of the woods. And I'm still not after all these years, although I had a lot more of what we call "recovery capital" than I used to. But no, I was very, very vulnerable and I needed to take every single precaution that I could to ensure that when I went home to visit family or any...any other type of event that came up that would cause me any type of angst I needed to be prepared for that.

Steve Martorano 
Renny how about you? What...what did you...not only do you have to manage your anxieties and potential relapse triggers, but I would guess that when you go back into the family setting, it's making sure you're reading them correctly, right?

Renny Affoumado 
For sure. And, you know, for me, alcohol is going to be around. Drugs are going to be around. It's how I prepare myself that day and the steps that I take. I like to sit...call them book and meetings. For instance, I am a member of Alcoholics Anonymous, I'm not afraid to say that. I go to meetings before and after the holidays, or during the holidays, I make sure that I talk to people in my program constantly. You know, as I said before, they're going to do whatever they're going to do. Family is a big trigger for me because there is a lot of history and a lot of issues that were in the past. And now, you know, I, as I said before, also, I get to be here and do these things with my family. So if I have that positive mindset, it does help out a lot. Now, I can't say that if there's a bottle of tequila right in front of me, that that's not going to trigger something. It will. But I also have the option today to remove myself from that situation. I don't have to sit at a table. You know, I can move.

Steve Martorano 
You know, it's so great. I appreciate so much you guys coming here and not making it sound like it's the easiest thing in the world, to get back into the swing of this thing. And be honest, as you have been about the holidays, family, and maintaining sobriety. It's critically, critically important. The holidays are every year, they're coming. We all have to get ready for them. And if you're in recovery, you have to do a little more work. That's like everything else. Renny, thanks so much. Gloria, thank you so much. Leave people with a couple of things you said -- both of you -- with regard to dealing with the holidays and that is have a plan. As Renny says, make sure you're working on your program. Make sure you have your phone number if you got to call somebody. And Gloria's advice about well, help others. Serve. It's a great thing to consider this time of the year. Folks enjoy the holidays. I can say that with confidence that you will and I really appreciate you joining us on the Behavioral Corner. 

Gloria Gallagher 
Thank you.

Renny Affoumado 
Thank you. A pleasure to be here.

Steve Martorano 
And thank you all. You'll enjoy your holidays as well. We're here hanging through them on the Behavioral Corner. Look for us wherever you find your podcasts and follow us on Facebook. You know the whole schmear. I'm Steve Martorano. See you next time on the Behavioral Corner.

Retreat Behavioral Health 
Retreat Behavioral Health has proudly been serving the community for over ten years. Here at Retreat, we believe in the power of connection and quality care. We offer a comprehensive holistic and compassionate treatment from industry-leading experts. Call 855-802-6600 or visit us at www.retreatbehavioralhealth.com to begin your journey today. 

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