About 302 Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

Black Belt Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Instructor Bill Walters established 302 Jiu Jitsu in 2007 as the largest Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, Mixed Martial Arts, Muay Thai, Kick Boxing and Self Defense academy in New Castle, Delaware with over 15 years of experience instruction and training.

Steve Martorano 
The Behavioral Corner is produced in partnership with Retreat Behavioral Health -- where healing happens.

The Behavioral Corner 
Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano. And this is the Behavioral Corner; you're invited to hang with us, as we've discussed the ways we live today, the choices we make, the things we do, and how they affect our health and wellbeing. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner, please hang around a while.

Steve Martorano 
Hi, everybody, how are you welcome again, to the Behavioral Corner. It's me hanging on the Corner. You know, when we named this the Behavioral Corner, I don't think we were taking video into account. This was supposed to be an audio production, so that we could create a conceit that we were hanging on the Corner, meeting interesting people. Well, that still holds up to a certain extent, because most people listen to this podcast. But if you're watching it, obviously, I'm not on a Corner, my office, so I apologize. Anyway, what we're about here on the Behavioral Corner, is talking about behavioral health, which is a gigantic topic that covers a lot of ground. So when people ask me what the podcast is about, I say it's about everything. And I think we're gonna prove that today because we're going to talk about martial arts. And, you know, I can't think of anything in the past 30 years -- 40 years of my life that isn't...hasn't been more consciously aware by the public in general, mostly through movies and television. I mean, there isn't a single action movie I can think of where the actors are not doing some kind of martial art. So everybody knows what we're generally talking about. But we're going to get into the weeds on martial arts, in particular, jiu-jitsu with our guest today, Scott Terrizzi. Scott's a 40-year-old, purple belt in jiu-jitsu. And he has some, I think he has some great insights to tell us so you know what that's about what jiu-jitsu as opposed to what's judo. But beyond that, the benefits he has derived from six years now of training in the martial art of jiu-jitsu. So Grasshopper, welcome to the Behavioral Corner. Scott, thanks for doing this. We appreciate it.

Scott Terrizzi 
You bet. Steve, thanks a lot for having me. I'm really excited.

Steve Martorano 
Yes, we are too this is going to be a lot of fun. So, you know, let's begin with what attracted you to this? How did you come to the decision that this was something you wanted to get better at?

Scott Terrizzi 
Yeah, so I didn't know I can't say that I decided and then and then made it. So it was a little bit different than that. But jiu-jitsu kind of happened into my life at an interesting time. I was in my early 30s and having relative success in my career doing well. And my wife and I, we had kind of gotten to the part where, you know, we wanted to continue to pursue happiness right now I'd watch some folks in my life and watch the storyline play out where professional success does not always end up leading folks to happiness. Right? And then you continue on that search maybe after...after you look for it and professional success. And between that, and some thoughts around mortality, right, like I don't want to have a bucket list full of things to do at the end of my life. I want to start knocking those things off as soon as I possibly can. We had put this plan together that we would start doing one thing every year that we are always wanting to do or we're always too scared to do that and wanted to do.

Steve Martorano 
This is you...this was you and your wife?

Scott Terrizzi 
My wife and I, yeah. And it actually carried over to our kids, our kids do it now as well. So we still carry this practice on today. Jiu-jitsu was was something that I always wanted to do but I was a little bit scared to do it. I tried in my late 20s to go to a gym and I just tried to get a buddy to go with me, I couldn't get anybody to go with me. They all called me crazy. So it was a journey that I couldn't get anybody to take with me. And I kind of stumbled into it. So you know, when...when we were looking at like, you know, the ultimate goal in life is to be happy. I decided to start studying happiness, right? And what are the components of happiness? And it's a tricky topic, because much like the opposite of depression, hopefully is happiness. Depression can be defined differently for different people. Happiness is defined differently for different people. You know, what makes us happy? And to what level that thing makes us happy can be different from one individual to another. So I started to figure out, What is happiness if that's the thing I want to create. And then in there in those studies, took some courses, read some books -- spent a few years on it. And learned that there were different buckets that you could fill in. And some of those things are meditation, gratitude, savoring, kindness, connection, exercise, sleep goals. These are all things that if you can focus on those on a daily basis and fill those buckets a little bit. Hopefully, at the end of it, you'll be a little bit happier. 

Steve Martorano 
That's an interesting path into jiu-jitsu, you know? I think it's very...it's a very sharp insight, because most people look to the activity, and then suddenly discover, oh, well, this has benefited me in this other way. But you did it, I think, the more logical way. Well, I'm trying to be happy. So what are the things that I can wind up doing? Sorry, I appreciate that a lot.

Scott Terrizzi 
That and then an injury from weightlifting had driven me towards a buddy of mine who talked me into going to our local gym, our local 302 was jiu-jitsu, Muay Thai, and an MMA gym. So they have all of them, they had a great reputation in the marketplace. And my buddy sent me in there, by myself, he did not come with me, and he doesn't train there to that. But he sent me in there on good reconnaissance, that that would be the gym to go to. From there. I think this is the typical first day for pretty much anybody that tries out jiu-jitsu, you know, right away, if this is for you, or if this is not for you. In the first experience, you'll typically know.

Steve Martorano 
I want to,...I want you to get specific about that. But I don't want to leave this issue of happiness, because it's a well for you...for you, and in a lot of cases, it's a foundational moment there. When do you decide why am I doing this? This is an aside, but it just occurs to me. When Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence, he was very specific about what the colonies were claiming to the king that they were endowed with by the Creator. And he said life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And I don't think enough people look at that go, what the hell is he talking about? The person...in other words, you are you...you know, as you just correctly pointed out, then I'm free to seek happiness. And Jefferson was smart enough not to put down what that meant. So it's just...it's just a great insight. Okay. So you know, okay, I'm going to go to the gym, I'm going to find out about jiu-jitsu. Why do you say that? You're the moment it doesn't take long before you go, Oh, I'm in the wrong place.

Scott Terrizzi 
Yeah, so...so I played football in high school in college, I was a weightlifter. I thought I could, you know, handle myself in a physical altercation. I was tested mildly throughout my life, but I never really thought much about it. Right? So I go into...I go into the gym thinking alright, so...so I can...I can defend myself, you know, relatively well. And the things that you think about when you think about a fight, don't really play out when you're in a jiu-jitsu environment. There's no adrenaline dump. The things that you normally would do to even leave a fight are probably no's when you're fighting a jiu-jitsu practitioner, like turning around or giving them your back or anything like that. These are things you don't want to do. But the lack of the adrenaline dump, and I realized right away, that there was a systematic dismantling of all of the defenses that I thought I had, in any kind of self-defense situation that was happening to me. And I...I left that day 100% wanting to know how to do that. That was my feeling. I need to learn that. 

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, that's, that's very interesting, because you, it seems to correct me if I'm wrong because I don't know that you are typical, in that you walked in thinking about this martial art in a combat context, or a, you know, a physical altercation con...context. As you said, you've had your share...you've been in bars when things got strange. You know...you know...you've known that stuff. But none of it matters in this context. Is that what the...is that the mistake you made?

Scott Terrizzi 
Well, if you think you go into an...I thought, anyway, this is going to be a good workout. And then also that I can kind of defend myself if you know, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, in particular, is all about submission holds either a strangle or a joint lock, where you're simulating breaking somebody's arm or leg or something along those lines. So your first thought is, I'm going to get in a fight, right? So I gotta defend myself.

Steve Martorano 
Right.

Scott Terrizzi 
But it's far more like a chess match. It's like human chess. If you don't know jiu-jitsu the sport, you're not going to know how to defend yourself in that type of an altercation at all.

Steve Martorano 
Well help us before we get into some of the...some of the more I guess, metaphysical aspects of martial arts and really want to talk about this training aspect of it. This idea that what I read over the weekend looking...looking some of this stuff up, that jiu-jitsu is distinguished by, and I love the phrase, "the art of yielding." What do they mean when they say that?

Scott Terrizzi 
Yeah, so...so in jiu-jitsu momentum has a lot to do with what you can and cannot do, it's really hard to move a rock or stone. But when somebody is moving, it's a whole lot easier to manipulate their movements. So understanding space and feeling space and movement is something that you learn over time or that I've been able to learn over time. And I think it takes a lot of time and practice to learn those things like actually feeling somebody move into you and be able to use that against them, rather than just get pinned to the mat and suffocated. Right, so you do learn over time how to use somebody else's power or where they're moving, and then ultimately use it to your advantage. And then at some level, you get to figure out how to create that movement, how to make them make the movement that you want, so that you can use it against them.

Steve Martorano 
That's really interesting. So we're perfectly clear I am anyway, when you see that, it has to do with the art of yielding. That's not yielding in a submissive sense. It's yielding so that you can gain an advantage. In the...in the... at the moment, is that right? 

Scott Terrizzi 
Yeah, I would interpret it that way. If you go into any jiu-jitsu gym, I think you're gonna, you're gonna see too many people just like staying away or yielding in the submissive sense. They're...they're using that motion against the person that they're...that they're training.

Steve Martorano 
Well...well, then let's explain this to me because I don't know. I don't know. In combat, I don't know, what do you call the situation a match when you're facing an opponent in jiu-jitsu. You know, they talk about boxing as the sweet science or the people think boxing is supposed to be all offense, when in fact, boxing is about defense. It's about not getting hit. In jiu-jitsu, do you wait for your opponent to move first? How does that if both guys are schooled in jiu-jitsu how's it work? Who makes the first move, so that the other can then use that momentum against them?

Scott Terrizzi 
Yeah, so...so when you start out you...you're...you're gonna probably find yourself making the first move, and it's probably going to be a mistake. You know, as...as we talk through this, I'll talk about the connections that you make, and that that was one part of the happiness, you know, buckets that you want to fill. But the friendships that I've made in that gym, are some of the best that I have to date. And the things that I've taken from those guys are infinite. And one of them, since you're asking this question came early in my training, I was training with a guy named Trevor Green, a great guy. And I didn't know any better, I would reach out and grab him. And he armbared me, which is basically simulating breaking my arm. So as long as I tap in time. We...so that when you're done, when you tap, you just reset and you start over. So I grabbed him again, the same exact way, he armbars me the same exact way. I tap. We start over, I grabbed him, for the third time, the same exact way. He armbars me the same exact way. I tap, we start over. I grab him for the fourth time and he says, "Listen, you got to let go of that grip. That grips no good." And at that moment, I realized I was armbaring myself. He was just the one applying it, right? I'm giving him my arm. And he's just applying the braking maneuver. But that to me was the most enlightening moment that I had..had up until that point. I actually have a sign over my door in my office, it says, "You got to let go of that grip." That grips no good." And it says Trevor Green right under it. Because at the time in my life, I was holding on to some things that probably weren't so good for me, outside of the gym, and I realized, like, you know, some things you just have to let go to be able to move on from. So yeah, when you first start training, you're going to...you're going to probably be the first one to make a move. If you do not know that the person that has been training for a while is probably doing that on purpose, you're probably still gonna lose. But there...as you start trading and trading with folks that that know what they're doing, you're both trying to get the other person to make a move, that's going to eventually be a mistake.

Steve Martorano 
Wow. Without getting too deep into this. It sounds like the outcome of most jiu-jitsu matches is almost already over before it begins. Because if you're very good at it, you know exactly what you're going to do and -- it's like guys at a chessboard and can see six moves ahead. It's a very interesting dynamic. What kind of shape I mean, you're probably we're obviously we're fit when you got to the gym. But for people that are just going oh, "Well I'd like to try that." What kind of shape do they have to be in physically before they get started?

Scott Terrizzi 
So we hear all the time like I want to get in shape before I come in. I want to get in shape before I come in and do jiu-jitsu and wrestle, you can't. You can't get yourself into shape for that practice without doing that practice. There's a reason that most fights last I think, 30 seconds to a minute before somebody gasses out. It's incredibly exhausting and when you go in and train, you know, this morning, we did 45 minutes of straight training, it's five minutes per round, and then about 30 seconds off in between rounds. So in that 45 minutes, you're doing as many five-minute rounds as you can of wrestling. And it's different than anything else that I've experienced. Because, you know, in any other exercise, I could control the resistance. If I was having a bad day, but less weight on the bar, you know, if I, if I didn't feel like doing my cardio so much, I do 15 minutes on the treadmill and call it a day.

Steve Martorano 
It sounds like my workout earlier today. It's exactly...it's exactly the way I work out.

Scott Terrizzi 
So the difference in jiu-jitsu is you don't control the resistance, it's the other person that figures that out for you. So it doesn't matter how tired you are, it doesn't matter you know, whether you feel like going with half of your energy into this next round, they're going to determine the resistance. So...

Steve Martorano 
There's no separate protocol that goes on outside of the activity. I mean, there's no, let's warm up here with some jumping jacks. And you just it's right, it's right in the thing, right?

Scott Terrizzi 
We do. We do some general calisthenics and some warm-ups. And we do some drilling movements like movement movements that would translate into your jiu-jitsu training. But in order to come in and train jiu-jitsu, there's nothing you can do other than that, to get yourself ready to go in. Don't use that as a reason not to go is be the short story..

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, how many days a week do you train now? 

Scott Terrizzi 
Six.

Steve Martorano 
Six days a week? And each session is how long?

Scott Terrizzi 
Usually 90 minutes. 

Steve Martorano 
All right. And the...the matches that you go in, that allow you to move up in, in the category, how long are they? So generally speaking, what's the match look like?

Scott Terrizzi 
So when we train in the gym, it's just a five-minute round. Five or six minutes is typical. Sometimes we go as many as nine or ten. We don't do that often. And then sometimes we'll do some shorter rounds, where we're just trying to work from a certain position, but a traditional round in our gym is gonna be five or six minutes with 30 seconds in between. So you find yourself, partner, you're going to wrestle them for five or six minutes in the 30 seconds in between, find yourself another partner in the room, and then the belt is going to go off and you're wrestling them for the next five or six minutes, so...

Steve Martorano 
How is it scored? Is there a referee, and how is it scored? 

Scott Terrizzi 
No, and so that's the other thing about jiu-jitsu and training -- training in the gym there's no real scoring there. There are scoring platforms when you go out and compete against other gyms and competitions. But in the classroom, it's really just about learning. So you've got two people that are learning this martial art. They're learning together from the instructors that are there but then also from each other. So you learn a lot in the rounds that you're training with other folks. And to your point earlier, where it says kind of predetermined, who's going to win the round. There's an anomaly every once in a while, but I will say it's the most honest thing I've ever been around. Whatever belt the person is wearing usually represents their abilities pretty well. And then the rest of the honesty comes from whether or not you've been training, if you've been training, you'll feel a whole lot different than if you've been off for a while your cardio will fall apart if you've been off for a while. So there's a quote that I heard before that it'll expose every lie and it will confirm every truth once you get on those mats. And it's...it's the truth. It's the most honest thing I've ever been a part of.

Steve Martorano 
That's great. And I really do want to talk about that too. So there aren't a lot of disputes over who won that? Who... wins?

Scott Terrizzi 
No, I mean, and there are multiple wins that happen in each round, right? So in that five minutes, I might get submitted four or five times. That person beat me five times inside of five minutes. So there are points type scoring from positions that you can get, but there's also going to be submissions throughout that round as well.

Steve Martorano 
Scott Terrizzi is our guest. He is a purple belt in jiu-jitsu and he's discussing his experience with this martial art and why it's contributed in a number of ways to a better life for him and his family. Where's your wife and all that? Where...is she...does she have a purple belt or what...

Scott Terrizzi 
She does not. She trains very, very little. Usually with me or with the kids in the basement. I have some mats here that we train. The kids are training at 302 with me at a kid's class. My wife is incredibly supportive. She loves that I do jiu-jitsu and encourages me to go to jiu-jitsu just because you know, the effects that it has on me, my mood, how I'm feeling about accomplishing my goals. Everything is tied into that. And not to mention the fact that I wake up every day at 4:30. I go there super early in the morning before anybody else needs anything or wants anything. You know, we accomplish a whole lot by 6:30 - 7'o'clock in the morning and then come home. So she's a big fan of me having my routine. And I guess the results of my mood because of that. So...

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, how old are the kids? 

Scott Terrizzi 
My son's 11 and my daughter's eight. 

Steve Martorano 
What is typically is the earliest you can start children in a martial arts class?

Scott Terrizzi 
I think they started about five in my gym. I had hoped to start my kids...well, I actually started them a couple of years ago, before the pandemic started. They had a few...few months of training under their belts. And then, when the pandemic started, as you can imagine wrestling, other folks. So it was probably not something you wanted to do early in the pandemic. So we all got shut down. I didn't do it for a while, either.

Steve Martorano 
And impossible to do, virtually, obviously. Well, you know, Scott, it's obvious that there's a huge, you know, physical benefit in terms of exercise and fitness, and all of that. But I think the thing that characterizes martial arts in my mind, and I think in the popular imagination, is, since it's an Eastern activity, these are Eastern traditions. There always seems to be a huge component that's spoken up that's talked about out loud, that has to do with what's going on inside of the jiu-jitsu student, or, or teacher. That certainly exists in all sports. I mean, boxers talk about, you know, getting their head, right. And certainly, you know, baseball, football, basketball players talk about getting in that zone. That's, that's, that's all mental place. But it really seems to be the essence of these eastern martial arts. So let's explore some of the benefits that I saw that were claimed, come out of the practice of jiu-jitsu and other martial arts. And you tell me what your experiences with them. I have read that, and you've mentioned some of this, that it is a great aid in regulating your emotions. Tell us what that means.

Scott Terrizzi 
So physical exertion, I think, in general, can help regulate emotions. Just in general. But with jiu-jitsu, in particular for me, because...because there's such a high level of problem-solving associated with the physical exertion, it flattens out my emotions, like completely and immediately, and then there's a perspective that you get from it, right? So I always say the prospects get a little bit better. When somebody is trying to choke at six o'clock in the morning, the problems that arise from the rest of the day, seem to be a little bit less than intense.

Steve Martorano 
So in a sense, what you say is that, while you know martial arts don't eliminate your emotions, you have to regulate them, because emotions may not have anything to do with what's going on here. Right?

Scott Terrizzi 
Yeah. And I think that you know, in the way that I train, where it's, I wake up early, I go to the gym, before I do anything else, really. I think that there's a there's not that it is controlled because that's probably an illusion, but there's a feeling of controlling my day, up until a point where there's not going to be anything else that kind of messes with it. Nobody's really helped yet. So nobody asked me for anything. I'm on my way to the gym by quarter to five or five o'clock, and I get that part of my day to myself, and I feel like emotionally for me, if I start my day differently, like during the pandemic, I had a hard time for time coping because I would start my day later. And it would usually be completely thrust into somebody else's agenda because I was starting my day a little bit later and I was going right into work. So now it's I'm dealing with what other people want to do. So for me the emotional balance that I get from that illusion of control, I guess that I give myself in the morning, where I'm at least, I guess with investing, they tell you to pay yourself first, right? I'm paying myself first here with jiu-jitsu.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, that's why I like it...I like the mornings too. They don't seem to be used up yet. It seems to be able to, you know, freshness to it. But with regard to the pandemic, which disrupted everything. Are you able to I don't practice jiu-jitsu get at home in a solitary way? What did you do to fill that gap?

Scott Terrizzi 
There are some solo drills that you can do by yourself. I use...I used, right, these are the terms that we use in jiu-jitsu let me borrow -- let me use "use." Let me try this move-out. But I used my kids. We did some training in the basement. But I taught them. Also, I taught them some...some...some techniques while...while we were in the pandemic so being in In the house with them. I loved the time that I got to spend with them. But you know, with jiu-jitsu being so much more than just physical activity, it wasn't as fulfilling for me to do by myself because the connection piece was gone. The mental challenge was gone. The human chess piece was gone. Problem-solving was removed, like, a lot of the things that I really, that keeps me going in, it was removed from the sport. So that became a solo thing. And it's not as much fun. Just like anything else. If you really want to lose weight, or you want to get in shape, nothing helps more than an accountability group. And trust me, I've got a group of guys that, you know, post on Facebook the night before that we're having class. And it's almost a formality at this point. But, you know, if you say you're in you better or show up. If you don't, you're gonna hear about it. You know, if you decided to sleep in so that that accountability is huge, because they count on me and I count on them to be there to train, but then also to do what you say you're going to do.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, the other thing that I kept, kept popping up is this notion of self-esteem. Now you seem to like, by nature, you're a pretty confident guy. But we all have doubts. Does this practice of jiu-jitsu enhance your self-esteem? Did it make you feel better about yourself? I mean the answer seems obvious.

Scott Terrizzi 
Yeah, I think so. You know, there's...there's a huge element to like keeping your calm under pressure. I think confidence comes a lot from preparation. And being able to stay even-keeled when other folks can't. So if you can combine that two preparation and keep an even keel, you'll...you'll probably feel pretty confident in any situation. This simulation of pressure and keeping your calm under pressure situation where somebody is simulated fighting you or simulated trying to strangle you, or break a limb, you know, requires you to keep your calm, not...not let your breath get out of control. So, between constantly going in and practicing, and then putting yourself in bad situations and trying to figure out your way out of it. And using that problem-solving thing. It definitely can help you with your confidence, for sure. Alleviate anxiety. too.

Steve Martorano 
It does relieve anxiety. Is it what you said?

Scott Terrizzi 
Yeah, yeah. So...so Robin Roberts, I think...I think what's her name, she was on one of the morning shows, and she had a bout with cancer a few years ago. And I heard her make a statement about during her treatment. She...she focused on the present because she found that if she thought about the past, she would get depressed. And if she thought about the future, she get anxious. But if she was focusing on the present, she was fine. There is, in my experience, no better way to focus on the present than to be attacked by another person and try to stop that.

Steve Martorano 
It'll focus your attention, right?

Scott Terrizzi 
You're not going to spend too much time daydreaming about that situation.

Steve Martorano 
Or wondering about the outcome or how it happened. I got...I got that -- talk about being in the moment, right? I've also read and this is particularly in our wheelhouse here on the Behavioral Corner and that's talking about people who have had serious life trauma, and very often medicated themselves to try to alleviate the pain of the trauma by abusing substances. So you think you told me in an earlier conversation, that it is not uncommon for people who have had substance abuse issues, to keep themselves sober through the practice of martial art? Is that your experience?

Scott Terrizzi 
Yeah, so we have all kinds of people from all walks of life, all professions. It's an interestingly eclectic group of folks when you go into a jiu-jitsu gym. You need to get across gyms, you know, when we go visit other gyms, you see all kinds of people. There are definitely people that use jiu-jitsu as another tool for them to help fight against addiction, or to stay sober. It's another way, I think, for them to create, you know, a reliable schedule for themselves, and all the things that we talked about before. And you know, I think they use it as a way to continue to be happy, or to pursue that happiness like you would put it but yeah, we see people from all walks of life and it's, it's a great way to...to divert some of your energy into a positive way in my opinion.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, all the actual the benefits that we were, that we just discussed are, you know, sorely lacking and someone who's abusing substances, so that if you can get over your sense of powerlessness, you can increase your self-esteem, get yourself in physical shape, and then as you say, former regimen all of that takes up the space that was being wasted by using drugs or alcohol. So let's get to this issue now of aggression. Because what in everything I read over the weekend about martial arts and jiu-jitsu, they make the point that your aggression, your aggression level will come down. But as you know, the popular culture pays lip service to that in the martial arts, but at some point, they demonstrate how lethal it can be in a combat situation. How do we square those two things and aggression goes down, but you've got this activity that can be very aggressive.

Scott Terrizzi 
Yeah, I think there are a few things that go into play. There, we talk a lot about how if you come into jiu-jitsu with a big ego, that's going to be humbled. But then also, jiu-jitsu was built for a smaller frame person to defend themselves. That was the whole basis of the sport. So they talk about if you...if you have a kid, and you don't want them to be bullied, teach them jiu-jitsu. And if you have a kid, you don't want them to be a bully, teach them jiu-jitsu, because you start to learn the impacts of you know, physically what you're doing to other people. But you also learned that a fight is the last thing that you want to be involved in. No matter how much you know about fighting, you don't know the things you don't know, you don't know how many people could get involved in an altercation, you don't know what kind of weapon platforms can be presented in an altercation. The last thing you want to do is find yourself in a fight out in the wild. So that I think as you learn how much there is to learn about fighting, but then you also learn about all the variables that could come into play that there's no way you can predict or control. The last thing that you want to do is be in an altercation. So you don't want to provoke any and you don't want to be in any if you can get out. You do so you get out. I love that.

Steve Martorano 
I love that...I love the idea that if you're worried that your kid may be bullied, maybe bullying tendencies, teach them this martial art. And if you're...if you're worried about them, being bullied, teach them this martial art. That's a terrific insight into this thing. Scott, thanks. This is great. I could talk about this for a long time because I know so little about it. But it is fascinating. And it clearly I mean, you clearly made my suspicion -- confirmed my suspicions that this is a good topic for a behavioral health podcast. So at your purple belt, what are the belts that remain? Are you going for them?

Scott Terrizzi 
Alright, I'm sticking with this. So there's next would be brown and then black belt and then there are levels to the black belt. Beyond that. I'm sticking with this for life. One of the things I love about it is that I think as a youth athlete, like as an athlete, you know, as at a younger age, but then also in high school and college. One thing that was kind of devastating for me that I've seen really impact other people when the sport leaves them. There there there are times when you know you play football, and eventually, you can't play anymore, or baseball, you play baseball to the highest level that you possibly can and you can't play anymore. One of the things I love about jiu-jitsu is that there's no not necessarily any end in sight of you being able to train or coach or learn more jiu-jitsu or be around jiu-jitsu. It's a very unique sport. in that fashion. You can continue to do it up until I'm not at 40 I'm not the...I'm not the youngest guy in the room, but I'm definitely not the oldest either. So right now what's the oldest guy in your class? Well, we've got folks in their 50s and if you look at the sport in general, they can go on from there I think, you know, famously, you know, some...some I think Ed O'Neill, Al Bundy, is a black belt in jiu-jitsu is still training. Yeah, there's...there's plenty of people training well into their later years, which is very cool.

Steve Martorano 
Well, I use nothing more poignant...than an aging athlete who has to say goodbye to his sport. It's fascinating that jiu-jitsu doesn't close that door. Of course, that would make Tom Brady kind of jiu-jitsu football player because he's obviously never going to quit either. 

Scott Terrizzi 
Incredible. Incredible. He's beating time so far.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, well, you know, it's interesting, just on that note, I mean, it's not so much that he's, I mean, there's a lot of work...a lot of work went into making him that good at 45 years of age. Anyway, Scott, this has been great. Scott Terrizzi, again, where do you train again, one more time?

Scott Terrizzi 
We're Wilmington, Delaware at 302 Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. We're actually an affiliate of Balanced studios (cough), excuse me, up in Philadelphia. They have some affiliates. around as well.

Steve Martorano 
Well, we'll get back to you, when you...what's the next belt, you'll get 

Scott Terrizzi 
Brown. 

Steve Martorano 
And...and when will you do know to have any idea when that will happen?

Scott Terrizzi 
We don't know. We just have to accumulate the skills and we have to put in the mat time until our instructors feel that we're ready for the next level.

Steve Martorano 
Well, I prefer I think browns are a better color for you then than purple so good there. So good luck there. And thanks for joining us on the Behavioral Corner. We really appreciated this.

Scott Terrizzi 
Steve, thanks a lot. Thanks for having me. And I appreciate the opportunity to talk about jiu-jitsu and also just to reflect on my own journey, it gave me a good opportunity to sit down and think about why I do it, where...where it came into play, and why I started as well. So thank you.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, no, you're you were great...a great spokesman for this thing. Great...great topic. Thanks so much. Hey, thank you guys as well see you next time on the Corner. Don't forget to follow us on all those places where you can follow us and get this podcast wherever find podcasts or had. Catch you next time on the Behavioral Corner. Take care.

Retreat Behavioral Health 
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