Originally from Tennessee, Megan received her Bachelor of Arts with a Psychology minor from Auburn University and a Master’s in Art Therapy with a Specialization in Counseling at Seton Hill University outside of Pittsburgh. With an internship specializing in holistic hospital care for woman’s health, she has a passion for pursuing self-expression, self-worth, and connection of mind, body, and spirit.

With 6 years of experiences in South Florida, she has worked with individuals struggling with the disease of addiction, mental health, hospice and palliative patients, virtual self-discovery “zoom art therapy” and seniors.

When she is not working, she loves traveling with her husband, spend time with family, do all things water (fishing, boating, snorkeling, etc.) reading, and making art.

Steve Martorano 
The Behavioral Corner is produced in partnership with Retreat Behavioral Health -- where healing happens

The Behavioral Corner 
Hi, and welcome. I'm Steve Martorano. And this is the Behavioral Corner; you're invited to hang with us, as we've discussed the ways we live today, the choices we make, the things we do, and how they affect our health and wellbeing. So you're on the corner, the Behavioral Corner, please hang around a while. 

Steve Martorano 
Hi, everybody, welcome again to the Behavioral Corner. It's me again, Steve Martorano. What we do is we hang out here on the Corner, and we meet interesting people. They're talking about what we're most interested in, which is, of course, behavioral health, and behavioral health. Well put simply, it's everything, everything we do, the things we think the behaviors we exhibit, the choices we make, and how all of that impacts our physical, spiritual, and emotional life. This is a podcast about everything. That's what I tell people. We've got a good one, I think for you today, at least, I've been looking forward to this for a while I've wanted to get back to the issue of art, and therapy and their relationship. There's nothing new about art therapy. I'm sure it's been around for a very long time. But I wonder if you are like me, and are often confused about how this works, and what the benefits can be of our therapy. To that end, we're really grateful to have her with us for the first time. Megan Foont is an art therapist with our underwriter partners Retreat Behavioral Health. You'll hear more about Retreat later on. But we welcome Megan to the Behavioral Corner. Megan, nice to see you. 

Megan Foont 
Nice to see you as well. 

Steve Martorano 
So you've been Retreat now for six years now?

Megan Foont 
Yep, coming up on year number six.

Steve Martorano 
And working for great people are some of the best people...

Megan Foont 
Absolutely.

Steve Martorano 
...and best help anybody could ever get. Your background in the field? How long have you been in art therapy?

Megan Foont 
So I actually was very fortunate I joined Retreat right after I graduated with my master's. So within the field coming up on six years. Postgraduate work has been mostly with Retreat, and then a couple of other contract opportunities, but six years -- I'm living it now.

Steve Martorano 
Did you start out as an art major, and then that dovetailed into its use as a therapy or we begin as a therapist and discovered art, how does that work?

Megan Foont 
So I give almost all credit to my high school art teacher. And in connection with my parents, they really fostered early on that you're going to work every day for the rest of your life. But it's your choice if it's working or not. So I was raised with this mindset to find a purpose, not just something that brings in money, and I found a passion in art. My dad is totally just a doodler or a dinkler. He's a very creative mind. So I grew up with that sort of fostering the left part of my brain. And as I went into high school I created. I was taking art classes and just kind of getting my toes wet in a bunch of the different mediums that I was going to sign up for APR. And this woman I give her credit, it was difficult at the time, but she kind of intervened and said you know you're talented as an artist, but she said you're not talented enough to be solely an artist. So she said, let's find an occupation that you can incorporate are incorporate something you do, and you can make a living. So once my ego got out of the way, I read a research paper on art therapy, and you know, have such gratitude that at 16 I found a purpose. And from there, I wasn't that 18-year-old searching for what is Who am I I had this really unique road laid out ahead of me. I went to Auburn and received a degree as an art major, a psychology minor. So a little bit of both, you get your exposure to a variety of art modalities, and then also heavy in psychiatry. And then as I proceeded to get my master's, I actually did a dual degree. So the right side of my brain was cognizant to say, let's get a little more in counseling, you need to be marketable, you need to survive in this world. So I did a three-year program that was a master's in art therapy with a specialization in counseling. So I was able to do a little bit of both.

Steve Martorano 
So you got here honestly, that's for sure. What a great piece of advice and how bold of a teacher to tell a 16-year old I know you love art. But I'm thinking that you're probably going to starve and have a hard time trying to make a living at this, but she didn't she or he didn't, you know, pour a lot of water on the fire. Turns you in the right direction. That's great. That's just a fantastic story. Also, your left brain right brain thing reminds me of a book that many of us read many years ago called, was either Drawing on the Left Side of your Brain. Do you know that book?

Megan Foont 
I believe it's jogging my memory.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, that's a great one. I remember one of the drills, they asked you to take a blank piece of paper, put it down, take something that you were going to try to reproduce, and put it on the other side, and then force yourself to look at the picture you wanted to recreate. But draw it with your left hand, if you're right-handed, do it with your left hand to sort of activate the brain. It didn't work for me. But I love that...I love that book. I think it was called Drawing on the Left side of your brain, anyway. So, I'm right, once again, I got the right person to talk to me about this. Let's begin at the beginning, when we talk about art therapy, what are we talking about?

Megan Foont 
So prior to going to school, you...as we can all Google, you kind of get a basic understanding of what it is and until you truly live it and breathe it, that's been my personal kind of definition evolved. So when I introduce myself, when I educate when I advocate, you know, previously spoke a little bit about our therapy. And as I tell people, as much as I'm a therapist, I'm also an educator and an advocate, this is a teeny part of the community. So almost every person I need, I'm greeted with the same, "Huh?" That look. So it invites that conversation of curiosity, also little confusion. And as I simply say to them: Art therapy is a type of therapy, where art is an additional tool for the community. It's an additional modality for expression.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, that's what I came up with in my brief, you know, boning up for this thing, I kept bumping into that word complimentary -- a complementary therapy. You know, art is not going to solve the problem. Many things don't individually. So it takes a lot of work. So let me...let me ask you about that, before we get into things like techniques and the different sorts of artistic expression that you use, you often are always run into the patient who goes "Art, I can't draw a straight line." Or "I can't carry a note." Or, you know, how do you overcome that? 

Megan Foont 
That has been the challenge for six years. And that will continue to be the challenge, because simply with the introduction of the word "art," you can almost witness anxiety.. You can witness the shoulder tighten. You can just see that sort of shift in people. So the biggest thing I'll say to them is "I'm not a teacher, this isn't a class, you're not going to get a grade." So they're going back in their mind to this elementary, this...this childish era where they had an art class, and it either was a yay or it was a nay. So I witnessed the memory speaking, and I detour that to say it's a different space. And what I try and do is I try and create a space that's unique. A unique space that's safe. That invites, the only form of criticism brought the space is themselves, and that "they" are that choice of if they will be critical to say, "I can't." And I'll say, "Can you or are you willing not to?" There's a difference. So it's just establishing that sort of relationship of you...it's not that you can't do something you're unwilling. Or also that introduction, that art is an umbrella. You know, everybody comes in, like you simply said that I can't draw, okay, well, there are 30,000 Other things that art is, so why limit yourself to just that, and I always joke, I'm like the whole world and get together and vote that you couldn't. You're the only thing about your stuff. So it's kind of breaking down the barriers that we all carry with art. If you meet someone on the street, and you say draw me a picture, it's gonna come with anxiety, or whatever cultural context, we've created to be that way.

Steve Martorano 
It's really fascinating that art should automatically trigger the anxious, "I can't do it." sense. You're right, it's universal. And we're not born that way. You watch children playing and, you know, even if they're only stacking colored blocks, they're, you know, we're fingerpainting -- fingerpaint is a great example. Great example, that that's an artistic expression. That's natural...that's natural. It sort of looks like it's inbred. And yet as we get older, I guess society or something, you know, drills it out of this. No, this is art. You can't do that. That's not okay. 

Megan Foont 
Right?

Steve Martorano 
So that's...you know, and essentially, there's something about that resistance that may be part of why art therapy works. Because if you break down the resistance of the fear of being artistic, maybe get to the other problems, traumas that are blocking everything.

Megan Foont 
You know, in so many things of our lives, if we're not vulnerable, we're not going to change, we're not growing. To come into a space, it takes courage and some people, but I joke with, you know, patients are here for up to 30 days, and it takes about a week, I would say until they don't come to the group. And by the time I get them in that room, I can not get them out. Because there's a shift. But it has to be their shift for when they're ready.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. So before we get to techniques? We'll talk about being fingerpainting? If that goes on? Who's a candidate for art therapy? And how do you identify them?

Megan Foont 
So can range from individual, group, family, community. I work in different spaces. I work in hospice, I work in oncology units, and I work with individuals with dementia. So they're all right, the entire spectrum of people that not only can benefit but are eligible. Truly, I believe anyone is if you have any sort of willingness. And I think what's so pivotal is, as we're simply having a conversation, we're both comfortable with that. But for some people, a face-to-face conversation can be intrusive. But if I invite a third party, now I've created this triangle of a relationship, I have something that we're both engaged in. We're both almost distracted. So now it's not as intrusive. So, for anyone that's engaged in a relationship where art is present, it's a total shift in energy. And also, more natural development comes out. Instead of that classic, you're laying on the couch, you're seeing a psychiatrist what the history tells us it is, that's intrusive, and a lot of people are very uncomfortable with that. But with art, it's this additional space that you can enter and it's not sound like an interview -- if that makes sense.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, yeah. Well, it's almost like a trick. It's almost like don't pay attention to...See this hand? 

Megan Foont 
But it's happening over here.

Steve Martorano 
What's happening over here, me over here. It's a great magician's trick. And you can see where at least I think I can where that technique can get to a deeper meaning. Because as you point out, and we should be very clear about this, art therapy is not our class. Your goal is not to make people artists, or musicians or you know, it delves deeper because they're in front of you with big problems. Let's talk about some of the techniques and you tell me a little bit more about them. And I know I won't hit them all. But a couple that strikes me college is a big technique, is it not? How does that work?

Megan Foont 
Absolutely. So just to speak specifically to that there are two kinds of branches of our therapy. There's an art as therapy, and there's art psychotherapy. So there are two sorts of umbrellas that exists. One is because artic state, mindfulness, that decreases anxiety, the productivity, and the joy that they seek is in creation. So that's an art as therapy, and then there's art psychotherapy. And that's incorporating assessments, that's directive, that's, or our training has specifically taught us certain techniques to develop and communicate on a deeper subconscious level. So you're always navigating when you need these candidates, what are our goals? What are you here for? How is this going to best be a well-fit relationship? And then from there, we'll make the assessment based on if there'll be interactive if there will be specific content, for it'll just be a process of self-exploration, you know, self-esteem, improvement, productivity. So many of our patients they've been in this cycle of addiction that they don't remember what it's like to be productive. They have something to show for their time and their effort. So for that, they were mindful, they were present, and they were successful. That's where they need to be met. And for other people, it's a deep trauma, it's a deep depression, and to witness it in a visual format. It's external to themselves. So if we verbally talk about trauma, there are things that will be missed. But if I can show you that I can talk to it and I can communicate in a totally different way. So there are two sorts of umbrellas that exist and then from that, essentially, there's any sort of medium that you can introduce but college is extremely successful and applies a lot of left side of the brain rights kind of the brain are incorporating and critically thinking I'm planning but I'm also art involves the senses and involves touch feel. So you're getting both sides of the brain that are engaged and that's kind of super unique in therapy.

Steve Martorano 
So rather than I mean, we, you know, each of these techniques would, more or less fall into the same, same description. So rather than keep repeating ourselves, let's talk about as you employ these things, as a clinician, you're going to decide, you know, what might work best for the patient -- painting or, or music or something. But what are you looking for? What are you particularly interested in the psychoanalytical side of that equation? What are you looking for, that helps you help them when they create art.

Megan Foont 
Sure. So just speaking to the larger spectrum of health, you know, we have the patients come to see us and they have sort of assessments that give us a little bit of groundwork of what they're here for. But most importantly, is when I speak with a patient, is there a story to tell, and I asked them what they need, what they're working on. Again, we're in a very unique environment. These are short-term goals, I tell them all the time, we don't have magic wands. But if we can lay a foundation, and we can start to plant the seeds, you can then water it. And what I look for is I...I look for willingness, I look for vulnerability. And what you see exists in people is joy. And it comes back in this almost like an elementary fix, because they've surpassed this vulnerability to be here. And when you ask a grown man to tell you show me how trauma affects your heart, show me how trauma affects your body, and show me how it affects your soul. And you see this person trying to articulate it, and then it becomes this beautiful form of expression that they didn't even know, they were able to communicate. Because again, when I just tell you verbally, I can't give justice to an event, our words just fall short. So you look for people that have any sort of need, but that they just have a little bit of willingness that you can kind of lasso them in, and let it lay on in front of them the magic that is inside of them. They just didn't know how to nurture it, if that makes sense. Yeah.

Steve Martorano 
That's...that's fascinating. Because we, I think the classic notion of that relationship between the therapist or therapy and the patient has, basically to do with language, which has failed many, mostly, someone sitting in front of you with a serious substance abuse problem has been told, many times, that this is wrong, this is ruining your life, and it doesn't seem to resonate. And when you talk about breaking that down, and the joy they feel in being able to do something they thought they couldn't do. But guess what you're saying is that's the door, that's the gateway, you've got to try to walk them through.

Megan Foont 
Absolutely. And you, you have individuals that are in a very unique space in their life, that the only thing that is missing for them is their willingness. And it is our job to nurture that for them to find that sort of motivation and change. And when you're putting them in a space where they've done something they've never done before. They're seeing a result they've never seen before. Again, we have a huge veteran program. So you're inviting these veterans that have witnessed, you know, unimaginable things. And if I communicate with you verbally about that, well, I can tell you that I'm anxious, but at some point, if I show you what my anxiety looks like, it gives justice to the all-encompassing, holistic thing that it is. So it's just inviting to realize I can get a different result from doing. And that's where the joy in that door opens to say, "Wait, there's been a shift, something feels...feels different."

Steve Martorano 
So it's you that shift that the benefits become available. Available is the key here. And you tell me you've seen people who have had success with art therapy, have reductions in stress level. 

Megan Foont 
Absolutely. 

Steve Martorano 
Anxiety.

Megan Foont 
Absolutely.

Steve Martorano 
Depression. Did you see all those things?

Megan Foont 
Absolutely. And you...the biggest thing also that's taking place is this mindfulness We live in a society that it's very instant gratification. We have so many things to distract us. But this traditional form of pen and paper, or paint and canvas, it invites you to be present. And so much of the anxiety that we live in, in our culture is either past, or its present, or excuse me, or its future, most of the time for safety in our presence. So when you're creating, you have to physically be there. So you're inviting yourself to focus, my senses are engaged, my hands are engaged, I'm seeing maybe I'm smelling and hearing. So you're inviting these people to be present and to be conscious of it now. And it's those sorts of things that you can invite them to take into their life that they continue to try and navigate the stressors of the struggles, but you see a decrease in depression when you see a greater understanding of self when you simply ask people to write qualities of themselves. On paper, I do that with every single client, I say the first thing we're going to do is you write me and I am in an I like thing. And they're just mind blown. They've forgotten who they are, they forgotten what they like, and just to witness it on paper outside of themselves, sort of like, huge moments and realize, "Wait, this is what I want to be." But it's simple if you can just get that reaction with just I am I like, you know, wait till we dive into a directive about showing me, you know, depression is showing me hope. It's...it's just, that you're getting in that hallway and navigating so many different things.

Steve Martorano 
Yes, it is an amazing shift in that so much and then if I'm wrong, tell me because I usually am. It's not a shift in content but context. Right? You're putting...

Megan Foont 
Sure.

Steve Martorano 
...you're putting it in a different place for them to look at.

Megan Foont 
Perspective is totally shifted.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah, you know, it's incredible. Use the word "create." If you could take a moment, and talk about the relationship between art therapy and creativity. I mean, creativity as far as I can figure out, it's a very mysterious process. We know more about neurology and how the brain works every day. It's an amazing field of study. But what I read is that we don't know a lot about creativity, it apparently goes on in so many different parts of the brain, that it's hard to understand it. What...I mean, is it possible...is there a conflict there for people...some people are just not as creative as other people. Your job is to get...is to get to whatever creativity they hav. Is that pretty much what you're trying to do?

Megan Foont 
Absolutely, I mean, the main in...regardless of your modality for therapy, the object is to meet them where they're at. You're honoring whatever they've come with. You are honoring wherever you want to go, but you're in the present with them. And that definitely speaks to their level of creativity or that level of vulnerability. So I'm never going to ask someone to paint me a perfect, realistic realism, painting of an apple because that would set them up to fail. And that's the relationship that has to be altered. Because, as we know, in history, there are people that have incredible talent. And here's just another way for me to compare myself to that. So if I can work in an abstract, or if I can work with a topic or a directive for them, all of a sudden, their creativity kind of gets a boost. I don't give people blank paper, because that presents anxiety. They're what's on it, it's blank, what do I do? What do I have, all of a sudden, it's like, it's these questions that are, whether they're innate, or whether society has pushed them honest, the doubt the fear starts to show up. So to meet someone who is there creatively is also to honor the creativity of the spectrum. It can be writing. It can be carpentry. It can be bean making. It can be pottery. It can be so many things and just letting them know that wherever you are on that spectrum, doesn't matter as long as you're on it. 

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. Removing judgment from the equation is critical, right? They've got to know that their art whatever it's going to be is not subject to anybody's approval or disapproval

Megan Foont 
Correct in that...and that is in the constant spiel that I give to be effective: I'm not a teacher. It's not a class. And actually, tell many of the patients that the art ima is process-based. So what I've done actually throw it away because they don't need it. Because I don't see validation and how it looks. I don't need that. And what's funny is when I went to school, my friends who did undergrad would be cramming for history exams with these factual answers. Here I am trying to make an art piece that will suffice the teacher's syllabus and almost isn't aesthetic and is counterproductive, almost. And then my master's totally shifted my brain to process not product.

Steve Martorano 
Right, right. Why you're...why you're doing it? I do understand that you Megan Foont, by the way, Megan Foont is an art therapist with Retreat Behavior Health - that any art you create for yourself, you...you look at. Do you show it to anyone before you get rid of it or do you keep none of it?

Megan Foont 
Most of the time, the reality it's, it's the -- what I need is satisfied in the creation process. So by bringing the idea if I bring stress, I put it in a space, a lot of the work I do is actually a circle because it's contained. While it's contained in me, take it out to put it somewhere else. And then when I'm done with it...I'm done with it. You know, I don't need it like...

Steve Martorano 

Wow.

Megan Foont 

...move on. But that's...that's where my brain trained to go. Because I used to say, "Well, I can't draw X, Y and Z, I'm not good." And I had to get away from that, for myself worth the things that matter to me. And knowing what I do does matter. And this is how it matters.

Steve Martorano 
Well, I can see how absolutely critical that isn't what you do in art therapy because if it's about the result and not the process, people are going to be disappointed they...they just are going to help them. It's funny. It's amazing. I had for years of sort of half-heartedly said to people, you know, "If I could go into a room alone and play the piano, I would be fine with that." If no one else, if...if I couldn't do it in front of anybody else, it wouldn't matter to me. That's, that's I understand that expression completely. It's a great way to put it. Alright, so thank you, Megan, this has been a very fascinating topic. We could go on and on. I could anyway. Art therapy is -- it's interesting, there's not a lot of is, you know, there's not a lot of research on what's really going on here. But people know, it works. We need to know, you know more about about how exactly so we can get more precise, but it's so great to talk about this, let's kind of conclude this with a couple of the things that I think are still myths in people's minds. There is this relationship in the popular imagination between art and suffering. I mean, the tortured artist is a fairly old trope. I mean, you know, they were all miserable people apparently. And certainly, the relationship between literature writing, and alcohol abuse are well documented. So how do you...when people...if people ask you this question, how do you reconcile this notion that artists are painful, apparently, with, though Yeah, well, it also is therapeutic." How do you square that circle?

Megan Foont 
Sure. So I think, just to piggyback what we've stated early is, when you're creating for, essentially to pay your rent, or you're creating for this relationship with financial gain, it's no longer a joy. You know, if I can make art and I can dispose of it, because I don't need it, that's very different than having to paint something to sell to put a roof over my head. So there are so many relationships that exist. And if your relationship with art has any sort of financial gain, there's added stress, there's be creative, but also be successful. So you have people that need art with so many different relationships. And for some people, in an ideal world, it is better to put on paper, maybe how you feel than to act on it. It's better to put your anger somewhere than to take it out on someone. So it's almost that realistic. Let me put it somewhere I want to honor it. But I also don't want to have consequences in negative way.

Steve Martorano 
So, so put in a more current context. It's better to write a letter expressing your pain and anger than to slap...slap someone across the face in front of... 

Megan Foont 
Exactly.

Steve Martorano 
...millions of people. Will. 

Megan Foont 
Yes.

Steve Martorano 
Anyway. Just finally, Megan, this has been great. I hope you'll come back again and again. But if someone's listening and they and they want to foster some of these abilities, not these artistic abilities, but the process you talked about in their...in their children or young adults. What kind of advice would you give to parents? How should they foster their children's artistic urge?

Megan Foont 
Absolutely. So I would suggest any sort of just "yes." Like the "yes" answer in the realm of creativity and also understanding that everything can be great. But if everything is always excellent, it's always excellent. So a lot of the words that we use when someone makes something or someone does something is, "Oh, that's excellent." And then we almost peaked in our acknowledgment of it. So it's just acknowledging that what they're doing is, "I love the way that you use that marker." Or "You're using such great colors choices." And you're acknowledging in their brain also the relationship instead of just this instant gratification of "Oh, what you did, Johnny was so good." It's a deeper acknowledgment of that creative side of, "I love the way you are working with that clay." "You're being so patient, putting the marker lid on." Like, it's just fostering that sort of relationship with creativity to be more than just a trophy.

Steve Martorano 
Yeah. That's perfect advice. Is it helpful to ask a young child? "Why" questions? "Why did you do...why did you do this?" Or, "Why did you do that?" Is that something that's even necessary at that point?

Megan Foont 
Um, you can but also knowing when I specifically talk to children, I try and talk in a how-to format. So, "How do you feel doing that?" Or, "How was it that you decided to put that color there?" And that's giving them more of why is almost like there's something wrong? Well, "Why did you do that?" Instead of "How did you choose my color? That's really interesting." It's so just...and that's the therapist to me is you're always cognizant of what we say and when you have enough conversations you do learn what impacts you in a beneficial way. And then you try and carry that on to how we communicate with other people.

Steve Martorano 
Megan Foont of Retreat Behavioral Health. She is in West Palm and their facility down there, their headquarters. Thanks so much. 

Megan Foont 
My pleasure.

Steve Martorano 
This has been every bit as much fun and informative...informative, as I thought it would be. Will come back again sometime soon, I hope?

Megan Foont 
It would be my pleasure. This is a passion so there's no shortage of information.

Steve Martorano 
Terrific. Thank you all for your time and patience. Don't forget to find us wherever you find your podcasts, like us on Facebook, and we'll see you next time on the Behavioral Corner. Take care, everybody.

Retreat Behavioral Health 
Retreat Behavioral Health has proudly been serving the community for over ten years. Here at Retreat, we believe in the power of connection and quality care. We offer a comprehensive holistic and compassionate treatment from industry-leading experts. Call 855-802-6600 or visit us at www.retreatbehavioralhealth.com to begin your journey today.

The Behavioral Corner 
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